Starting Frustrations


8 replies to this topic
  • AngryShawn

Posted December 04, 2006 - 11:22 PM

#1

I recently got my 01 650r back on the road after a rebuild, current setup:
11:1 piston
hotcam stage 1
ss valves
OEM valvetrain components
competition valve job
stock header and mid pipe
WB E series muffler
Stock Carb, stock needle 4th position, 180 main, 68 pilot, fuel screw 1.5 turns out, backfire flapper removed (The main is still a bit rich, I get some popping on decel)
uni filter
10 1-inch holes drilled in side cover, using the uni push in pre filters
all smog/restriction nonsense removed
home-rewound stator for better headlight output
CA plated with supermoto setup

The bike starts by the third kick when cold with minimal choke and runs like a beast, but here is the problem, it can be a mean SOB to get restarted. On top of it, it seems to be an intermittant problem.
After the rebuild I instantly put on about 200+ break in miles. On the last break in ride I stopped to buy some lemonaide from some kids and the bike just would not start. I figured I did something wrong, tried all the tricks I had read about clearing the cylinder, etc... checked for spark and it looked good, swapped in a new plug anyway and it fired right up, figured it was a bad plug or the valves needed adjusting. Later that week I did my post break in valve adjustment and changed the oil/filter. Fast Forward to the next ride, fire up the bike, warm up, ride 1 mile to get fuel and it wont start back up. 30 min later it decides to run and I hit the road for about an hour, without stopping :bonk:
I figure my jetting still needs work so I did some research here and found that a rich pilot may cause hard starting. I drop down from the 70 that was in there to the 68, hoping that was the problem. Fired up the bike and rode to the gas station and back. Parked for about 5 min and it started right back up. Sweet, I think the problem is solved. Wrong! The very next weekend it does the same thing as I head out for a ride, 1 mile from the house and 30 min later it starts back up. Hit the road and make sure if I have to take a break I'm on an incline for bump start. Stop for a break about 1.5 hr later and the bike fires right back up... Ride some more, make another quick stop to stretch, roll downhill and bump start no problem (didn't try to kick this time). Ride about another 30 min to get fuel and it dies at a stop sign, figured I didn't switch to reserve fast enough. Unfortunately its the same drill, have spark, but wont start, plug coloration looks good, not wet, a little bit of soot from the rich main. Kicking over with the comp release pulled in gives some backfires so I'm thinking that fuel is there as well, another 30+ min and it finally kicks to life. :worthy:
Repeat this scenario at the gas station due to an accidentally killing it :D :prof:
Thankfully, it finally started and I got home under my own power.
I was thinking the coil may be bad but that usually kills the bike when its running and this thing will run all day long. Getting restarted is making me paranoid about enjoying my rides. Outside of starting to test and replace the wiring and electrical components, is there anything else here that I should check or other starting secrets I haven't yet read about?
Any and all input is appreciated!
Cheers
Shawn

  • pigryder

Posted December 05, 2006 - 03:36 PM

#2

I would be leaning towards the valve clearances but it sounds as though you have that covered, CDI but it doesnt die while riding just when you try to restart it right?? No leaks at the intake end of things right? trying to throw some possibilities at ya....... with all the engine work you sure the 70 pilot wasnt big enough?? seems like alot of oppurtunity for air and exhaust to flow easily maybe not enough fuel??

  • hill5150

Posted December 05, 2006 - 04:01 PM

#3

I would opt for a fatter main, or the edelbrock.

  • Maroast

Posted December 05, 2006 - 04:02 PM

#4

seems like alot of oppurtunity for air and exhaust to flow easily maybe not enough fuel??



I'm no jetting master, but this is what I'm leaning (pun intended) towards. With that many holes in your airfilter cover it sounds like your getting a ton of air in (what kind of can you running?)

From what I understand, a rich jetting will be hard to start cold, but will fire up no problem when hot.

A lean bike will light no problem cold, but be a bitch when hot....Your problem! That may be why when it sits for a bit it cools down, and then lights back up.

If you think about it, it makes very good sence how temp effects starting a bike in lean and rich conditions.

If I were you I'd put duct tape over thoes holes, WITHOUT changing the jetting....experiment and pull the tape off one hole at a time (for each ride that is)...
first ride: ride it for 20min with no holes open, pull in your drive, turn it off and try to kick it over...see what happens
Second ride: pull tape off one hole, ride for 20 min, pull in driveway, stop the bike and try kicking it.
repeat until your satisfied :worthy:

again, i'm no expert, just my $.02

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  • pigryder

Posted December 05, 2006 - 04:14 PM

#5

Maroast that sounds like a good idea.... I have to agree

  • AngryShawn

Posted December 05, 2006 - 07:20 PM

#6

Thanks for the input, I'm starting to feel like I'm going nuts :worthy:
I'll give the duct tape theory a try this weekend if the weather holds out.
BTW, I'm running at or within 500-1000 ft of sea level.
Cheers
Shawn

  • cleonard

Posted December 05, 2006 - 07:40 PM

#7

From what I understand, a rich jetting will be hard to start cold, but will fire up no problem when hot.

A lean bike will light no problem cold, but be a bitch when hot....Your problem! That may be why when it sits for a bit it cools down, and then lights back up.


If we are talking just about right but slightly on the lean side then it will only start when cold with the choke. Without the choke it will be difficult if not impossible to start when cold. A little lean will start easier when hot.

If it's a little rich, then it will usually start easier when cold than it it's too lean. When it is hot it can be very difficult to start. Several of the 450's have a hot start button. That button lets in more air to lean it out and make it easier to start when hot. It is sort of an air leak valve.

Way out of whack mixture wise either rich or lean can really make starting hard.

Try going one size smaller on the pilot jet and/or turn in the mixture screw. It might help and is relatively easy to do. If that doesn't do it, try the other direction.

  • Mudshark

Posted December 05, 2006 - 08:42 PM

#8

I hate to so this .... but here goes. A week or 2 after I put the Ricky Stator
on my pig, it started doing very much what you are describing.
After a week of cussin and stuff I found that where the wires connected
to the main harness under the seat, the one that feeds juice to ignition had a dry
connection (factory fault) I was lucky because mine was easy to spot
because it had started to burn the clear plastic insulators from all the arcing.
I guess at some point the spark just didn't want to jump the gap?
Anyhow, I cut them off and replaced them and it's been fine ever since.
Just something worth looking into ... I guess.

Good luck with this.... it can be really irritating. :worthy:

  • AngryShawn

Posted December 05, 2006 - 10:31 PM

#9

Cold starting is no problem. Half or no choke and it fires by the third kick max.
Looks like I'm in for a day of trial and error starting with verifying my electrics, followed by the duct tape exercise or fuel screw and jetting...
Thanks!
Shawn





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