Baja 1000 ... Who Won?!?


61 replies to this topic
  • Koko Azuela

Posted November 22, 2006 - 12:51 PM

#41

It just doesn't make sense to throw away a good engine like the 650R. Why not lighten up a few parts on the R and send it out as a model upgrade next year? If the other companies are moving into big bore dirt bikes, this doesn't seem like the right time to drop the 650R. Sounds like the right time to make some improvements on what you've already accomplished.

I agree, shave off a couple of pounds and install the magic button and you would have the perfect desert bike!!

  • Koko Azuela

Posted November 22, 2006 - 12:59 PM

#42

FYI... The lead 450 won by 2 HOURS over the other factory 450, which had 1 Hour on the third placed ride (650R). Three hours total over the first 650R is a substantial margin, but then again, the Honda A team had no problems unlike the majority of the other top competitors.


Yeah, but the third place was ridden by privateers, 1x was just plain haulin butt, Mikey, Henge and Cody did their job well... 1st XR650R was 300x and did not have any major issues, i know because i chased for that team!!!
Tim's bike 307x came in a close second, also on a XR650R.. If you put Henge and Childress on a CRF250 they would win also, is not so much the bike, it's the rider, we would need to see the reliability of the X, well se how they end up after a race...

  • Koko Azuela

Posted November 22, 2006 - 01:14 PM

#43

Six of the top 10 bikes were 650's and the other four were 450's. My opinion is that the 650 will continue to be the bike of choice for the racer with a budget. At least for a little while longer.


Budget? hmmm, big or small? because if you want to place in the top ten, a stock bike won't cut it, if you want a race bike, im taking as an example the bike i chased for on the 1000, it was an 06 brand new bike, or 07 i think, suspension on this bike was around $2000 by Precision Concepts, tank, triple clamp, stabilizer, exhaust, engine work (cam and bunch of stuff), lights, total bill for parts only was around $8000, PLUS the bike, that's a $14,000 bill...so this ain't a budget race bike that i can afford, maybe for a racer with a budget that is just doing it for fun the 650 is great with minor mods, just typing this to don't get the wrong idea, any bike needs work before it can be raced.... I'll shut up now.... :cheers:

  • asinine

Posted November 22, 2006 - 05:17 PM

#44

Budget? hmmm, big or small? because if you want to place in the top ten, a stock bike won't cut it, if you want a race bike, im taking as an example the bike i chased for on the 1000, it was an 06 brand new bike, or 07 i think, suspension on this bike was around $2000 by Precision Concepts, tank, triple clamp, stabilizer, exhaust, engine work (cam and bunch of stuff), lights, total bill for parts only was around $8000, PLUS the bike, that's a $14,000 bill...so this ain't a budget race bike that i can afford, maybe for a racer with a budget that is just doing it for fun the 650 is great with minor mods, just typing this to don't get the wrong idea, any bike needs work before it can be raced.... I'll shut up now.... :cheers:


Point taken, I should've qualified 'budget'. I agree the initial outlay is expensive regardless of the bike. After that the budget needs to be larger for the 450.

  • BWB63

Posted November 22, 2006 - 05:28 PM

#45

Budget? hmmm, big or small? because if you want to place in the top ten, a stock bike won't cut it, if you want a race bike, im taking as an example the bike i chased for on the 1000, it was an 06 brand new bike, or 07 i think, suspension on this bike was around $2000 by Precision Concepts, tank, triple clamp, stabilizer, exhaust, engine work (cam and bunch of stuff), lights, total bill for parts only was around $8000, PLUS the bike, that's a $14,000 bill...so this ain't a budget race bike that i can afford, maybe for a racer with a budget that is just doing it for fun the 650 is great with minor mods, just typing this to don't get the wrong idea, any bike needs work before it can be raced.... I'll shut up now.... :cheers:


I agree but, if you are going to build a race bike you don't need a new one. Something that hasn't been ridden much are still all over the place $4k for a bike is a good start, then if you can do the work right, $3k for mod's. If you have to have the work done then it is $3~4k just to get a bullet proof 680 engine and $800~$1500 for the suspension. If you include the bike I have over $20k in mine with the extra's you need like a few sets of wheels, radiators, different tanks, different sprockets and all the other stuff that is not on the bike but, is needed, different lights blaa, blaa, but, with that said, Gene lane ran all the Baja races solo and finished on close to a stock bike, over and over and over again, same engine over 20K miles. So, if you just racing for fun on a budget it can be done in the sportsmens class.:p

  • philipstjohn

Posted November 22, 2006 - 07:54 PM

#46

It just doesn't make sense to throw away a good engine like the 650R. Why not lighten up a few parts on the R and send it out as a model upgrade next year? If the other companies are moving into big bore dirt bikes, this doesn't seem like the right time to drop the 650R. Sounds like the right time to make some improvements on what you've already accomplished.


I believe Honda will finally retire the legendary 600/650L series and make the XR650R the updated dual sport option in the big bore size for the company. Then, replacing the XR650R will be CRF 650 R/X series, finally tuned to be as realible as the 650R for off road racing.
I still want to buy a new one and store it until needed. :cheers: :p

  • motopsycho650

Posted November 23, 2006 - 06:24 AM

#47

Think it's hard to believe a CRF450 won the race over an XR650R. I know CRF's are unbelievable bikes, and can be geared and setup for Baja. The one thing I don't understand is how it can compete with it's lack of weight.

It's usually been my experience that a slightly heavier bike sticks to the ground better, which is essential for a distance race like the Baja. From the scenes I saw in Dust To Glory, it seems to me that a 50# lighter bike would spend more time bouncing off of bumps, as opposed to taking the bump and keeping tire contact. The CRF450 will be much better for cornering, but the Baja seems to be more straights than turns.

My cousin has a WR450, and I have my XR650R. Both bikes are pretty equally upgraded, and his is up-geared for taller shifts. He'll take me any day on a tight, curvy trail. But when we get on a straight away, he's eating dust.

Anyways, congrats to the CRF team for taking out the 650. I'm sorry to see the end of Campbell's reign.

  • Koko Azuela

Posted November 23, 2006 - 09:38 AM

#48

I agree but, if you are going to build a race bike you don't need a new one. Something that hasn't been ridden much are still all over the place $4k for a bike is a good start, then if you can do the work right, $3k for mod's. If you have to have the work done then it is $3~4k just to get a bullet proof 680 engine and $800~$1500 for the suspension. If you include the bike I have over $20k in mine with the extra's you need like a few sets of wheels, radiators, different tanks, different sprockets and all the other stuff that is not on the bike but, is needed, different lights blaa, blaa, but, with that said, Gene lane ran all the Baja races solo and finished on close to a stock bike, over and over and over again, same engine over 20K miles. So, if you just racing for fun on a budget it can be done in the sportsmens class.:cheers:


I completely agree!!! :p :bonk:

  • BajaBoundMoto

Posted November 23, 2006 - 11:18 AM

#49

IMO the 650R was the best bike for the job, regardless of cost or special parts.
Anyone who feels the 1000 is all fast ought to ride from about mile 675 to the Finish of this last 1000 - it was awesome, tight, rocky, up/down, and you'd likely want to race a 450.
Still, a 650 I feel is best, and I am 145 lbs. soaking wet.
We ran a mild cam in our motor and I'm thinking that for the bottom half of the course I'd have rather had a completely stock motor, only exhaust.

I'm still in baja and this keybuard sucks....

I met "Koko" at a Honda Pit while we were both attempting to make a Baja-fix to the headlights on 300x. I'm really stoked those guys won class 30, they're great guys.
Great to finally meet you KokoA.!!

Unfortunately things didn't go our way this race due to a couple crashes and some pretty extensive bike damage.
I received the bike at 3rd OA physically, but it was hammered. By the time I rode out of the Pit I was in 12th physically.
I know we all had much higher expectations this race, and really, I'm pretty bumed how we ended up (5th bike and 2nd in Class 30).

Still, for next years 1000 what bike do I think will be the BEST bike for the job? 650R.

  • trackmaster

Posted November 23, 2006 - 04:05 PM

#50

you are totally right tim , i preran on my 450 for a while then rode another teams 650, for the long haul i will take the 650!

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  • sandgrencivic2k1

Posted November 24, 2006 - 01:15 AM

#51

I think when it comes down to reliability the obvious choice is the xr650r. But the majority of riders, and the reason the 450 4 strokes were pushed was because people wanted a 4 stroke that acted like a 2stroke, with the higher reving, faster 4 strokes. And that is what people got. Too many people critisize the fact that "reliability" on a crf is not good, but you have to take it for what it is. It was not designed to be a XR, it was designed to hang with the high hp 4 strokes these days with more trail capabilities.

Also about the 650 having more power then a 450 I dont feel is true. Even Hengeveld said that the 450 is sitting at 70 lbs lighter, is faster out of the corners and gets up to speed quicker.

Most of you guys already said it, that its not really the bike those guys are riding, its all in the rider. And it will be awhile before you see a non Team Honda team not sitting in first place on that race with all the time they put down there on prerunning, etc.

  • Old_Man_Time

Posted November 24, 2006 - 08:42 AM

#52

Am I missing something here. Didn't someone point out that two of the top finishing XR650R riders went down really bad and still finished decent in the standing?

I realize going down is just a part of it but it does chip away at the significance of that 2 hour lead.

What was the winners time in comparison to last years winning time? That would be a better measure of the 450Xs win.

  • sandgrencivic2k1

Posted November 24, 2006 - 10:16 AM

#53

Even if you look at last years race there was about a 30min gap between honda a team and honda b team. And there was about a 2 hour gap between Hengeveld and the 3rd place rider. So really any way you look at it, its more the rider then the bike.

People just can't keep pace with them for the full length of the race. Its been 10 straight wins for Honda A team, so that is telling you something.

  • weskc35k

Posted November 24, 2006 - 04:02 PM

#54

I believe that the 450x was going to win no matter what,please let me elaborate.
Even if the 650 was winning i believe honda would of had "TEAM ORDERS" and also that if the X was in front it was going to get as far in front of the 2nd Honda team bike as a safe 2nd for the 650 would allow,it's a corporate Honda thing.
Anybody?

  • Koko Azuela

Posted November 24, 2006 - 04:37 PM

#55

I believe that the 450x was going to win no matter what,please let me elaborate.
Even if the 650 was winning i believe honda would of had "TEAM ORDERS" and also that if the X was in front it was going to get as far in front of the 2nd Honda team bike as a safe 2nd for the 650 would allow,it's a corporate Honda thing.
Anybody?


I agree, corporate politics are a major factor on what bike is raced, Henge doesn't decide!! he just rides, that's his job!!! (cool Job!!!) But, maybe we will see a green factory bike giving Honda a race for their reign in 07'!!

  • InternalCombustion

Posted November 24, 2006 - 06:35 PM

#56

Point taken, I should've qualified 'budget'. I agree the initial outlay is expensive regardless of the bike. After that the budget needs to be larger for the 450.

Also, there's the "Factory-paid, pro-rider, Pre-run-til-you-get-it-right" factor to consider. Buying and modding the bike is pobably less than 25% of the total investment Honda made for this year's 1000.

One idea popped into my fertile mind: Honda may just be buying time with the X. If in fact they are axing the 650R next year, AND are not yet ready with the "mystery bike", then flaunting their might with the 450 ("nah-nah-noo-noo, we-beat-you-hoo") would cover a bunch of bets:
- the 450's desert reliability and capability,
- Honda's ability to campaign a "small" thumper and still win
- set the stage for "if you think the 450 is capable, lookie at the new big-bore we just released..."

So the 450X carries (flaunts) the crown for a year and then along comes the new CRF "big-brother". Think of the buildup press that would allow.

Maybe Honda is prepping the stage for a serious Paris-Dakar factory attempt:

Maybe, maybe not. My fertile brain has been wrong before.

Cool idea though.

  • motochris

Posted November 24, 2006 - 08:22 PM

#57

. AND are not yet ready with the "mystery bike", then flaunting their might with the 450 ("nah-nah-noo-noo, we-beat-you-hoo") would cover a bunch of bets:
- the 450's desert reliability and capability,
- Honda's ability to campaign a "small" thumper and still win
- set the stage for "if you think the 450 is capable, lookie at the new big-bore we just released..."

..


Posted Image

  • sandgrencivic2k1

Posted November 24, 2006 - 10:24 PM

#58

I believe that the 450x was going to win no matter what,please let me elaborate.
Even if the 650 was winning i believe honda would of had "TEAM ORDERS" and also that if the X was in front it was going to get as far in front of the 2nd Honda team bike as a safe 2nd for the 650 would allow,it's a corporate Honda thing.
Anybody?


You may be correct but I don't think they would put a gap between 1st and 2nd because 2nd place was a 450x as well. And honda would not make Campell lose over Hengeveld for any reason.

In the end it really comes down to the riders more so then the bike.

  • hypersthenos

Posted November 24, 2006 - 11:42 PM

#59

Hey there Motochris, you got some sort of top secret pass to the elf factory or something?

  • weskc35k

Posted November 25, 2006 - 04:45 PM

#60

I've seen your avatar motochris,you're studly.
Now spill the details on the foto or the gerbil gets it.
That's a vertex barrel too by the way.





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