[650R] Why is the Trailwing called a "Deathwing"??


15 replies to this topic
  • InternalCombustion

Posted November 05, 2006 - 05:39 PM

#1

The Bridgestone Trailwing (specifically the TW-52) seems like a decent DS tire. The tread design looks reasonable, good sized lugs, lotsa openspace between them.

Specs show an "S" speed rating, which I'd like to have. Yeah, I may not actually TEST it, but I'd like to know its rated, "just in case".

So what gives, is it really that bad a DS tire (for mostly street/winter riding)? The only other S-rated comparable tires--that I am aware of--are the Maxxis 6006 ($) and the Metzeler Sahara ($$$).

Feedback welcomed...

FYI:
R-rated is good to 106mph
S-rated is good to 112mph
Again, an S-rated tire is probably overdoing it but if I am going to be stupid enough to want to take a BRP all the way to maxo-topend, I don't want to be double-stupid and do it on under-rated tires.

Hence, an "S rating".

  • adam574

Posted November 05, 2006 - 05:46 PM

#2

the rating has never even crossed my mind... anybody know what the terrflex tire is rated for.

  • Naru

Posted November 05, 2006 - 06:21 PM

#3

Owning a V-strom 1000 which came stock with Trailwings and having spend many hours on adventure rider forums debating this, the 'deathwing' thing is really more subjective than anything. Most people feel the tires give a 'vague' feedback when cornering, but I'd call it's feedback 'neutral' (not vague, but not accute either). I can take them down to the edge of the tread no problem, and there is ample warning when your overextending your lean angle. However, for winter or snow riding, I'd stay clear of them; when conditions deteriorate they loose traction REAL quick.

For DS riding where you need knobbies, both the Michelin Desert and Baja are excellent tires that are DOT rated. However, if your looking for street biased smooth tires, the Pirelli MT90? (whatever comes on the KTM 950 stock) are excellent (not sure if they are available in your size, however).

Edit: The Maxxis 6006 is also a good tire. However, anything from Mezeler is going to cost you mucho dinero, so they're good to steer clear of.

  • Ferdinand

Posted November 05, 2006 - 06:35 PM

#4

I always thought they were fair to good on pavement. But got the death reputation for sliding out in gravel and being just about worthless in mud.

  • InternalCombustion

Posted November 05, 2006 - 06:57 PM

#5

I can take them down to the edge of the tread no problem, and there is ample warning when your overextending your lean angle. However, for winter or snow riding, I'd stay clear of them; when conditions deteriorate they loose traction REAL quick.

However, if your looking for street biased smooth tires, the Pirelli MT90? (whatever comes on the KTM 950 stock) are excellent (not sure if they are available in your size, however).

The Maxxis 6006 is also a good tire.


When you say "...I'd stay clear of them; when conditions deteriorate they [TW's] loose traction REAL quick..." do you mean street conditions, like rain, or trail conditions?

Also, I'll take a look at the KTM950-spec Pirellis for 650R fitment. They're sure to be S-rated if they're spec'd for the 950.

  • Ferdinand

Posted November 05, 2006 - 06:58 PM

#6

Don't know about winter riding, but avon gripsters and distanzias are great on pavement wet or dry and wear well.

  • wheelnut46

Posted November 05, 2006 - 07:06 PM

#7

When the pavement is warm and dry the Trailwing front tire worked well on the street. Off road on dirt it would wash out terribly. It just wouldnt bite. On pavement in the cold (below 40*F) it was scary. Seriously - stay off it if the road is cold.
I replaced mine with a Pirelli MT18 which is pretty aggressive looking and it out-performs the Trailwing in every way and has 2,000 miles 80/20 (street/dirt) and is wearing very well.

  • cleonard

Posted November 05, 2006 - 10:05 PM

#8

It really depends on what kind of riding that you plan on doing. The trailwings are good on the road. OK on a dirt road, and suck in muddy or sandy conditions. For real dirt riding a real knobby tire is the only thing that works good. If all you are planning on is the pavement with some dirt roads then the trailwings should do fine and last a lot longer than a knobby.

Speed rating is only an issue for long term high speed. A few minutes at high speed is no problem. If you are going run a whole tank at 90+ then it might make a difference.

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  • factorymx

Posted November 05, 2006 - 11:47 PM

#9

the rating has never even crossed my mind... anybody know what the terrflex tire is rated for.


not sure what the speed rating it is ,but the last 1 i bought had a DOT on it. not that u would really want to ride 1 on the street. they wear well in the dirt & provide insane traction in the sand & mud.dangerous to ride behind so my buddies would tell me.they will excavate large rocks & launch them at those who ride behind u. lol. google teraflex & have a look at tread pattern B trail wings are horrible off road but they work well to roll your new ride off the show room floor .

  • InternalCombustion

Posted November 06, 2006 - 06:04 AM

#10

the rating has never even crossed my mind... anybody know what the terrflex tire is rated for.


Tera-flex tires are manufactured by M&H/Interco, a Louisiana company. I searched their website high and low and there are no speed ratings listed, that I could find.

But like Cleonard said, "Speed rating is only an issue for long term high speed. A few minutes at high speed is no problem."

  • adam574

Posted November 06, 2006 - 08:40 AM

#11

that terraflex tire i use has mostly street miles on it and it wears awesome.. i noticed good traction in the woods and powerlines. then when we stoppped riding my buddy let me really know how good it was. " hey that tire is throwing some realy good size rocks at me"

i've got about 1500 miles on it so far and it is stil in awesome shape. also on the street nothing i do is taking it easy on this tire. i am very impressed with it.

  • rebelventurer

Posted November 06, 2006 - 02:23 PM

#12

FYI, I had a set of the very expensive michelin baja's, got about 600 miles out of them 60% dirt 40% road, the front pointed out in 200 miles, they are just too soft and for $120 rear, $85 front they ought to last a while, NOT. The michelins had a bad high speed wobble too, that balancing and playing with tire pressure could not fix ( high speed = 65+ mph)
I have since switched to the dunlop 606's and havent looked back :mad: Amazing on road handling for a knobby, good enough traction in the dirt, its always a compromise somewhere. :mad:

  • InternalCombustion

Posted November 06, 2006 - 02:41 PM

#13

FYI, I had a set of the very expensive michelin baja's, got about 600 miles out of them 60% dirt 40% road, the front pointed out in 200 miles, they are just too soft and for $120 rear, $85 front they ought to last a while, NOT. The michelins had a bad high speed wobble too, that balancing and playing with tire pressure could not fix ( high speed = 65+ mph)
I have since switched to the dunlop 606's and havent looked back :mad: Amazing on road handling for a knobby, good enough traction in the dirt, its always a compromise somewhere. :mad:


Rebelventurer, seeing you are located in Florida, this is going to sound like a joke, but: have you had an opportunity to test the street traction of the 606's when its cold out, say below 50 or so? I live in PA, and 50 is "warm" up here :mad:

  • rebelventurer

Posted November 06, 2006 - 02:59 PM

#14

Actually, I am in North Florida, no cubans yet ( not that theres anything wrong with cubans, they just dont seem to live here) Just the other day it was freezing in the morning I think it was 42, tires seemed to handle fine!
I guess the michelins would be ok if you freeze them solid.
Oh, hahaha, LOL and all that.
No puns intended, and I dont care who you vote for, its your vote, just make sure it counts at least once! :mad:
I bet the dunlops will work fine in the snow, ice, and fog!

  • cleonard

Posted November 06, 2006 - 09:18 PM

#15

I figured out how to read the speed rating on a tire. All tires that I looked at both on and off road motorcycle, car, and truck tires have a Load/Speed index that consists of a number and a letter. The number is somehow related to the load rating of the tire. The letter is the speed rating. On my XR600 the front Dunlop 756 is a 51M. The rear Maxxis Desert IT is a 68R. The tires on my Jag XJ6 are 97V. The tires on my truck are 109S. Must be the bigger the number, the bigger the load. I think you can find the index from the manufactureres websites. You can always read it off the tire in the store.

I'm kind of surprised that the Maxxis (106) is rated higher than the Dunlop (81).

I found this table for the speed ratings
J 62 mph
K 68 mph
L 75 mph
M 81 mph
N 87 mph
P 93 mph
Q 99 mph
R 106 mph
S 112 mph
T 118 mph
U 124 mph
H 130 mph
V 149 mph
W 168 mph
Y 186 mph

  • InternalCombustion

Posted November 07, 2006 - 05:52 AM

#16

I figured out how to read the speed rating on a tire. All tires that I looked at both on and off road motorcycle, car, and truck tires have a Load/Speed index that consists of a number and a letter. The number is somehow related to the load rating of the tire. The letter is the speed rating. On my XR600 the front Dunlop 756 is a 51M. The rear Maxxis Desert IT is a 68R. The tires on my Jag XJ6 are 97V. The tires on my truck are 109S. Must be the bigger the number, the bigger the load. I think you can find the index from the manufactureres websites. You can always read it off the tire in the store.

I'm kind of surprised that the Maxxis (106) is rated higher than the Dunlop (81).


Cool!

Yeah, funny how some tires have higher ratings than others. I think the Speed Rating is a factor of tire construction (how the biased or radial belts are woven together to hold the carcass together) and composition (what compounds are added to the rubber to help it withstand the heat generated by higher speeds).

Regarding the Load Index (LI) for tires, here's a conversion table:
LI lbs. LI lbs. LI lbs.
50 419 58 520 66 661
51 430 59 536 67 677
52 441 60 551 68 694
53 454 61 567 69 716
54 467 62 584 70 736
55 481 63 600 71 761
56 494 64 617
57 507 65 639





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