FVO vs ENZO subtanks ?


27 replies to this topic
  • grayracer513

Posted October 31, 2006 - 09:59 AM

#21

Hey Gray,

I wasn't trying to correct you, ...

Whether you were or weren't trying, if Enzo in fact uses a two way metering valve, the information I gave was inaccurate, wasn't it? That needed to be cleared up.

Since we have at least two people here, including myself, who have Enzo tanks with fittings that require no drilling, how do you suppose that happened? In the case of the set I have, it could have been anything, since their history is unknown. But Ga426Owner is another matter, as he seems to be saying that his came like that.

Any '03 and earlier fork that has the cup shaped spacer under the cap as shown below needs to have it drilled so that it will allow air past it into the tank(s). Maybe that's what Enzo meant by saying that they drill all of them.

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  • Framebreaker

Posted October 31, 2006 - 11:27 AM

#22

Gray,

I don't know how or why you have a set. I have made several adapters for people to try our system back to back with the Enzo's. So, it is possible they came from us to begin with. I asked Enzo what they did for a '07 CRF 450, they said drill out the caps etc.
The point I was trying to make was, they have always said you cannot get proper air flow through our fittings. Our fittings have the absolute largest hole that is possible through a 5mm fitting.(which happens to be the same as Enzo's drilled fitting). And, if they are now using a no drill design after all that B.S., I would have to laugh.

I have a question about your setup. How does the oil drain back into the forks?
With the fittings in the center of the tank, it looks like they would only drain out about 40% of the oil, if they were full to begin with. I know the bike gets bounced around a lot and when you turn left or right at a low speed more oil would be able to drain. Also, it can take a while to fill them up depending on your riding style and track. So, a lot of people don't think it's a big deal. But, I have seen guy's blow out 20cc-40cc of oil within two motos, including myself. If anyone doubts this, just remove your bleed screws and take a few laps. Then, tell me how much oil was blown all over you.
Even, 10cc of oil isn't a lot, but it makes a huge difference in the performance of the forks.

Even our design will have as much as 2cc collected on the walls of the tanks, right after a moto. It will get to the bottom after several minutes, then get sucked out on the first rebound. But, it will always collect on the walls while in use, no matter what is done to prevent it. I have tried countless setups to prevent this and 2cc is the smallest amount that we have been able to collect, without changing the overall performance.(Smaller tanks, baffles etc.)

I just love it when a company says there isn't anything better, or no other design will ever work better. Then, change over to something they have critisized in the past. I will never say that nothing else can work as well, cause things change all of the time. We have a really good system that works very well. I feel it is a better all around performing system for everyone. Can other systems work? Yes, they can.

  • grayracer513

Posted October 31, 2006 - 12:00 PM

#23

Gray,

I have a question about your setup. How does the oil drain back into the forks?
With the fittings in the center of the tank, it looks like they would only drain out about 40% of the oil, if they were full to begin with.

I have this setup on an '01 250F and my '03, which has '04 forks. On the '01, I relocated the holes for the fittings below center, as I mentioned in the web write-up, plugging one of the original holes, and screwing a Schraeder valve into the other for pressure relief.

On the '03, I did something like what you do with yours. I soldered a piece of copper tube that is bent at a gentle 45 degrees to the inside end of each metering valve so that its end stands just of the bottom of the tank. This way, the rebound stroke removes the bulk of the oil that gathers.

The '01 has always put oil in the tank very slowly, probably because of the small size of the holes i drilled in the spacer. The '04 fork has no such part under the cap to baffle out the oil, and would ship oil upstairs a little more quickly. However, I never noticed any problems arising from having oil in the tank, even when they were installed just as shown. I attribute this to the fact that I run the oil level quite high with the tank in place, which keeps the oil above the fork's operating minimum, and since the overall air volume remains the same whether the tank is empty or 45% full (the most they could get to be), it never showed up as a problem. In any case, the most oil I ever found in them was perhaps 7cc. The tank volume is fairly large, also, at just over 8 cu/in

The forks will balance their own oil level with a single tank, as well. If one fork blows 20cc of oil out, it would have more air in it than the other fork, which would give the opposite fork a "higher compression ratio" in effect, and the next few compression strokes would blow from that fork through the tank to the side with less oil. The fork with the higher oil level would be more prone to expelling oil anyway, even if they were both open. It's always worked out that the oil pretty much stayed in the fork, and the oil level was very nearly equal in both sides.

  • yzf450jack

Posted October 31, 2006 - 05:14 PM

#24

[COLOR="Blue"]Has anybody seen the sub tanks that are the handlebars There is a meter valve right in the center of the bars and the hose's go in to the forks. I don't remember who's they are but i seen them in one the latest cycle magazines What great idea:applause:[/COLOR]

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  • yz_for_me

Posted November 01, 2006 - 12:14 AM

#25

[COLOR="Blue"]Has anybody seen the sub tanks that are the handlebars There is a meter valve right in the center of the bars and the hose's go in to the forks. I don't remember who's they are but i seen them in one the latest cycle magazines What great idea:applause:[/COLOR]


I laughed when I saw that in MXA, not because it's not a good idea, but because this very thing was discussed in a thread here nearly 3 years ago. One TT'er KaBoom actually built a set for himself and said they worked great. Here's a link to the thread.http://www.thumperta...t=105603&page=8

I wonder if the person who developed this got the idea from TT? Hmmm.

  • Ga426owner

Posted November 01, 2006 - 06:48 AM

#26

Since we have at least two people here, including myself, who have Enzo tanks with fittings that require no drilling, how do you suppose that happened? In the case of the set I have, it could have been anything, since their history is unknown. But Ga426Owner is another matter, as he seems to be saying that his came like that.

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Well I stand to be corrected.....my Bleeder holes must have been drilled and retapped to accept the larger fittings..I double checked the extra fittings/hoses I have and they are larger than the stock bleeder hole...on the forks....so I am mistaken and my forks were drilled to...It is a good thing that my 03 will probably be kept or sold complete...as the forks are now ENZO'D...but never the less I am 100% satisfied with the suspension performance gain by the use of subtanks on my 03. I said it before and I will say it again...I am sure FVO, Enzo or whatever tank system use purchase at least on a 03 YZF250F - 450F you will see substantially better results than stock

  • krony506

Posted November 01, 2006 - 09:24 AM

#27

Where do you buy the FVO's?

  • mx_361

Posted November 01, 2006 - 11:07 AM

#28

framebreakerracing.com

Motosport Outlet has them now too. Or just PM Framebreaker. He is a Thumpertalk member!





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