FVO vs ENZO subtanks ?


27 replies to this topic
  • Blue4Ever

Posted October 26, 2006 - 11:15 AM

#1

I have reviewed the pro's and con's of each, but would like to know if anyone out there has ran both and what there take is on the pro's and con's.:mad:

  • mx_361

Posted October 27, 2006 - 06:29 AM

#2

I've had both and would deff recomend the FVO's. No drilling, no draining, no funky rebound with the forks (one way metering valve), push button air bleaders, no heavy stainless steel lines chewing up everything they touch and the FVO's look awsome. Best $$$ I've spent. And anouther cool thing is that when I sold my RM250, I simply pulled them off and bolted them right up to my new 06 CRF450. I didn't have to let them go with the bike. Only took about 5 min. to swap out.

  • Ga426owner

Posted October 27, 2006 - 07:32 AM

#3

I've had both and would deff recomend the FVO's. No drilling, no draining, no funky rebound with the forks (one way metering valve), push button air bleaders, no heavy stainless steel lines chewing up everything they touch and the FVO's look awsome. Best $$$ I've spent. And anouther cool thing is that when I sold my RM250, I simply pulled them off and bolted them right up to my new 06 CRF450. I didn't have to let them go with the bike. Only took about 5 min. to swap out.


I have Enzo and have had none of these issues.....I am sure the FVO's are nice with better bleeders, newer design,,,,yada yada yada. The Enzo's work just fine for me...
my ss lines are covered in clear rubber..
no rebound issues...Enzo revalved for me
Drilling what...I have no idea
remember Enzo started this ....yes you flip them over every once in a while to drain excess oil back into the fork. They are bullet proof

  • grayracer513

Posted October 27, 2006 - 08:42 AM

#4

The one way metering valve in the Enzos, Too Tech, etc., is an important feature. It meters the air coming from the fork to the tank on compression, but allows it to return freely on rebound. Th efree return on rebound is necessary to avoid a partial vacuum on rebound that could both draw dirt in past the seals and "pack" the fork with air.

Having the ability to control the rate at which air flows out of the fork and into the tank gives the earlier fork some measure of speed sensitivity, meaning that it lets you run less copmpression damping and makes the fork plusher over the small bumps, and still resist bottoming over the big stuff.

I built my own setup

  • mx_361

Posted October 27, 2006 - 08:59 AM

#5

The Enzo's I had did not have any covering over the stainless lines and they chewed into everthing they touched. The drilling referes to the massive 1/8" holes you have to drill out to install them (I'm sure Enzo did this for you). The rebound thing referes to the funky sensation you get with using a valve that meters air into and out of the sub tank kind of like grayracer513 is saying. The FVO's only meter flow into the tank (unlike the Enzo unless they have changed it) and do not affect rebound. If you ever run them back to back it would be obvious what we are talking about. And pulling them to drain every couple of rides got old. I never have to pull the FVO's even to adjust them. Just my opinion.

  • grayracer513

Posted October 27, 2006 - 10:00 AM

#6

Older Enzos required drilling for an off-the-shelf 1/8" NPT fitting. The newer ones come with a custom fitting that screws into the existing bleeder screw hole without modification. I am also fairly certain that they have gone to one-way metering since their earliest models came out.

  • Ga426owner

Posted October 27, 2006 - 11:38 AM

#7

The Enzo's I had did not have any covering over the stainless lines and they chewed into everthing they touched. The drilling referes to the massive 1/8" holes you have to drill out to install them (I'm sure Enzo did this for you). The rebound thing referes to the funky sensation you get with using a valve that meters air into and out of the sub tank kind of like grayracer513 is saying. The FVO's only meter flow into the tank (unlike the Enzo unless they have changed it) and do not affect rebound. If you ever run them back to back it would be obvious what we are talking about. And pulling them to drain every couple of rides got old. I never have to pull the FVO's even to adjust them. Just my opinion.


you must have had the pre production dinasaur edition....:mad:
No drilling on my forks...I would not have even considered doing this for subtanks - the lines go into the bleeder holes w/ special fitting
I have no funky sensation....but damn good front and rear suspension for a 03....rebound dampning works flawlessly - they are one way metering
and I double checked just now...I have the original SS lines and a new pair w/ new fittings...they are covered in a clear hard plastic resin
My oil level is 70mm from Enzo....maybe this is why oil draining is not a big issue for me....all I do is flip them upside down for a min and it is done...I never have that much oil in them after many many rides

I am sure the FVO's are real nice with better features......Enzo has a nice product to:thumbsup:

  • mx_361

Posted October 27, 2006 - 11:56 AM

#8

Sounds like they have really improved them. Do you have any photos of the new set up? Mine were on an 03 CRF so it's been a while. Either way I can't say enough good things about the FVO's. Good stuff.:mad: Defiantly the two best systems available!

  • Framebreaker

Posted October 27, 2006 - 11:59 AM

#9

Older Enzos required drillingh for an off-the-shelf 1/8" NPT fitting. The newer ones come with a custom fitting that screws into the existing bleeder screw hole without modification. I am also fairly certain that they have gone to one-way metering since their earliest models came out.



If older is last years model, then OK. I have not seen the new enzo system you speak of. If they have added a one-way valve and a no drill adapter, then they have a lot of crow to eat! Jeremy Wilkey of MX-Tech has so much to eat, he couldn't possibly do it in his life time.

They all told me for years how my design couldn't possibly be any better. Then, went on to tell me how they had already tested my design before and it didn't work at all, and I was pretty much an idiot for suggesting such a thing.
The fact is I have been producing a no maintenance, no drill, one-way style valved subtank system for over 4 years now and it still will out perform anything else on the market. Understanding how and why it works is the key. I guess that is the difference between Engineers and Engineers who still race every weekend.
As for all the name calling a few years back, who is laughing now?:mad:

  • Framebreaker

Posted October 27, 2006 - 12:32 PM

#10

you must have had the pre production dinasaur edition....:mad:
No drilling on my forks...I would not have even considered doing this for subtanks - the lines go into the bleeder holes w/ special fitting
I have no funky sensation....but damn good front and rear suspension for a 03....rebound dampning works flawlessly - they are one way metering
and I double checked just now...I have the original SS lines and a new pair w/ new fittings...they are covered in a clear hard plastic resin
My oil level is 70mm from Enzo....maybe this is why oil draining is not a big issue for me....all I do is flip them upside down for a min and it is done...I never have that much oil in them after many many rides

I am sure the FVO's are real nice with better features......Enzo has a nice product to:thumbsup:


When did you purchase your subtanks? Because, thay haven't updated their website pictures yet. I am curious to what they look like as well.

Enzo has always been good with suspensions. I just think it's funny how they could believe so strongly on how well their system worked. Then, do away with all of the features they had always said was the whole reason to have subtanks in the first place. And now they are copying my design? Next they will cut their weight down to the FVO level.

If I had to choose another brand, it would be Enzo's. I still own a set of Enzo's from 5 years ago and they are the reason that I designed a better system in the first place.

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  • Ga426owner

Posted October 27, 2006 - 02:02 PM

#11

When did you purchase your subtanks? Because, thay haven't updated their website pictures yet. I am curious to what they look like as well.

Enzo has always been good with suspensions. I just think it's funny how they could believe so strongly on how well their system worked. Then, do away with all of the features they had always said was the whole reason to have subtanks in the first place. And now they are copying my design? Next they will cut their weight down to the FVO level.

If I had to choose another brand, it would be Enzo's. I still own a set of Enzo's from 5 years ago and they are the reason that I designed a better system in the first place.


They look the same...and the features are the same

  • grayracer513

Posted October 27, 2006 - 02:12 PM

#12

If older is last years model, then OK. I have not seen the new enzo system you speak of.

The set that I have at home is at least two years old that I know of for certain, and has fittings that attach standard line fittings to the fork without drilling the bleeder hole. Perhaps more research is in order?

  • Ga426owner

Posted October 27, 2006 - 05:00 PM

#13

The set that I have at home is at least two years old that I know of for certain, and has fittings that attach standard line fittings to the fork without drilling the bleeder hole. Perhaps more research is in order?


same with mine

  • Blue4Ever

Posted October 27, 2006 - 05:31 PM

#14

Grey, Are you running your subtanks? If not, Please explain. I have an 05 450. I am pleased w/the way the stock forks work on the track, but on the trail even w/adjusting the clickers it can be a little harsh on the small stuff. Rather than revalve and loose that investment when I upgrade, the subtanks appear to be a good compromise.

  • SoCalrider21

Posted October 27, 2006 - 05:46 PM

#15

I have the FVO's and love them, probaly the best thing I have ever bought for my bike suspension wise.

  • Framebreaker

Posted October 30, 2006 - 11:08 AM

#16

The set that I have at home is at least two years old that I know of for certain, and has fittings that attach standard line fittings to the fork without drilling the bleeder hole. Perhaps more research is in order?



Well, Jeremy Wilkey of MX-Tech built the 2006 Dirtrider internet bike with drilled fittings and the same old Enzo two-way valve. They went as far to say again, that any other system style will not work as well as the Enzo drilled fittings a valve type.

I do not work for Enzo. And, I don't see every part they make. But, still to the best of my knowledge, they don't offer what you two are speaking of.:mad:

During typing this reply, I went ahead and called them. They said they still drill all forks, and use a two-way valve. BTW They are great guy's and are really helpful on the phone. Heck, if I didn't do my own suspension I would give them a try.

  • jeffboyd47m

Posted October 30, 2006 - 07:01 PM

#17

I had Enzo install subtanks on my 07 YZ450 and they drilled and tapped their own holes for the lines. I think they work well.

  • yzf450jack

Posted October 30, 2006 - 08:40 PM

#18

The one way metering valve in the Enzos, Too Tech, etc., is an important feature. It meters the air coming from the fork to the tank on compression, but allows it to return freely on rebound. Th efree return on rebound is necessary to avoid a partial vacuum on rebound that could both draw dirt in past the seals and "pack" the fork with air.

Having the ability to control the rate at which air flows out of the fork and into the tank gives the earlier fork some measure of speed sensitivity, meaning that it lets you run less copmpression damping and makes the fork plusher over the small bumps, and still resist bottoming over the big stuff.

I built my own setup


There's no one way valve! It just meters the air flow in and out of the tank! Hey grey on your Bimba setup does the rod pop out when you go over bumps?

  • grayracer513

Posted October 30, 2006 - 11:31 PM

#19

Apparently I stand corrected as to the presence of a one way metering valve in Enzo sub tanks. It may also be true that the fittings on the Enzo tanks I have came from elsewhere. Since I got them second hand with a set of forks, I don't know. The fittings nevertheless exist, for those who have some objection to drilling and tapping the larger holes. I see no reason not to.

FWIW, I agree that one-way metering is a better setup for the reasons I detailed earlier, and it's what I have on mine.

There is no rod on the tank I got from Bimba. It is an air reservoir, not a servo.

  • Framebreaker

Posted October 31, 2006 - 07:45 AM

#20

Hey Gray,

I wasn't trying to correct you, I was curious if they really had changed their design? So, I guess they haven't.
We started the one-way valve bandwagon over 4 years ago(Only Enzo, Tech-care and Too Tech had a type of subtank system then), as we started the no drill fittings too, we just didn't spend thousands of dollars to advertise them.( My fault) I didn't want to say how good they were, just to make a buck. Instead, we where selling the systems locally and through the website etc. for very low prices and rider feedback. But, now we are being copied more than the original Enzo design. Having an extra tank that air is vented to, is the only similarity to the original. All other changes like the no drill fittings, hose routing, valve type, bleeder location, tank volume, valve location, fit and finish is what makes the differences in performance. Since, Enzo is now recommending them for twin chamber forks (In a smaller volume tank version), interest has grow again and everybody and their brother has a subtank system on the market. Earlier, Enzo had discouraged anyone from using them on twin chambered forks, saying they didn't help much. I guess now they had finally figured out that they will help any sealed fork system a lot.
As to drill, or not to drill? A 3mm orifice is a 3mm orifice. How you get to this point is only the difference. If you like to disassemble your bike to try out a aftermarket part, then by all means do so. I felt like more people would be interested in a product that required no modification labor, or labor fees. Especially, not having any down time to try them out. Even though we were not chosen "Product of the Year", we had this same great system that we have now, on our website two years before the 2005 report. For the record, Dirtrider has never tested any of our products, nor has any other magazine for that matter. I am not trying to push our design, just defend it like I have been over the past few years. Our motto has always been based upon the theory, "Try it, if you don't like it, I will buy it back!" No harm, no foul.

For you guy's that have our system, thanks for all of the feedback! Please, let me know if you ever have any issues.





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