22mm RG3 Triple Clamps Combo f/ '06 450???


60 replies to this topic
  • grayracer513

Posted November 02, 2006 - 02:28 PM

#21

Doug Dubach has always been the sort of guy who calls a spade a shovel. He says what he thinks, not what he's supposed to say.

Applied's tests were true "blind" tests, where all the bikes involved were rotated through the test group in different orders and none of them had any idea of the offset on any of the bikes. They simply said I liked the (?) one the best. 24mm was what they came up with. The same blind test method produced an entirely different result with the YZ250F. In that test, the rider group collectively chose the 27mm clamp, which reduces trail, instead of increasing it. To be fair, RG3 could have used the same process, but I don't know.

I would say, from riding my '03 with and without 22.5mm clamps on it, and riding my '06, that the '06 needs very little, if any at all, changes in the steering geometry to perform well, and it wouldn't be trail that I would change if I did. I'm not saying that it can't be improved, but I would be very surprised to find that I liked the way it felt with more than a millimeter's change in either direction. The 24mm number makes sense to me. 22.5 seems ridiculous. JMO.

If you don't think head shake is an issue in MX, you should ride my '03.

  • Huckster

Posted November 02, 2006 - 03:10 PM

#22

Doug Dubach has always been the sort of guy who calls a spade a shovel. He says what he thinks, not what he's supposed to say.

Applied's tests were true "blind" tests, where all the bikes involved were rotated through the test group in different orders and none of them had any idea of the offset on any of the bikes. They simply said I liked the (?) one the best. 24mm was what they came up with. The same blind test method produced an entirely different result with the YZ250F. In that test, the rider group collectively chose the 27mm clamp, which reduces trail, instead of increasing it. To be fair, RG3 could have used the same process, but I don't know.

I would say, from riding my '03 with and without 22.5mm clamps on it, and riding my '06, that the '06 needs very little, if any at all, changes in the steering geometry to perform well, and it wouldn't be trail that I would change if I did. I'm not saying that it can't be improved, but I would be very surprised to find that I liked the way it felt with more than a millimeter's change in either direction. The 24mm number makes sense to me. 22.5 seems ridiculous. JMO.

If you don't think head shake is an issue in MX, you should ride my '03.



They didnt say that headshake wasnt an issue in MX. They just said that headshake on the 07 YZF with 22mm was not an issue. I really dont know because I havent rode with them. I am not even sure if the bike needs it. I just was curious if anyone has had the opportunity to do that and what their thoughts were. I know if made a HUGE difference on the CRF that I had. I am coming off a RMZ 450 and that bike turned so well, it was never even a thought. I just purchased the top clamp and combined with my flexxbars, I never felt any vibration. It was an awesome set up. Hopefully the YZ wont need offsets so i will again just purchase the top clamp.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 02, 2006 - 03:53 PM

#23

Hopefully the YZ wont need offsets so i will again just purchase the top clamp.

Try it first. You may not need the anti-vibration function either. The '06/7 YZ450F counter balancer is very well dialed in.

As to head shake, one of the things that older YZF's are noted for is stability, and prior to the triple clamps, my '03 was no different. After the clamps went on, it is still stable on pavement, but over rough ground, it is very much more susceptible to "slap steering", where the wheel is yanked one way or other by hitting a bump at an odd angle. Sometimes it's downright violent. The bike does turn in much more easily than it used to at low speeds, which was the idea, but if I stay with this bike much longer, I'm either going to buy an e-axle and dial it back a ways, or put the stock clamps back. I'm not taking my '06 down that road. It works too damn near perfect right now.

  • ncmountainman

Posted November 09, 2006 - 04:51 PM

#24

Try it first. You may not need the anti-vibration function either. The '06/7 YZ450F counter balancer is very well dialed in.

As to head shake, one of the things that older YZF's are noted for is stability, and prior to the triple clamps, my '03 was no different. After the clamps went on, it is still stable on pavement, but over rough ground, it is very much more susceptible to "slap steering", where the wheel is yanked one way or other by hitting a bump at an odd angle. Sometimes it's downright violent. The bike does turn in much more easily than it used to at low speeds, which was the idea, but if I stay with this bike much longer, I'm either going to buy an e-axle and dial it back a ways, or put the stock clamps back. I'm not taking my '06 down that road. It works too damn near perfect right now.


hey gray, about the e axle,is acheiving more trail under 2 different circumstances (moving the axle back from the forks vs. moving the forks closer to the steering axis) going to have the same end result or will one have a different feel than the other?

  • grayracer513

Posted November 09, 2006 - 11:27 PM

#25

hey gray, about the e axle,is acheiving more trail under 2 different circumstances (moving the axle back from the forks vs. moving the forks closer to the steering axis) going to have the same end result or will one have a different feel than the other?

Trail is trail, and 4" of trail (for instance) is going to be 4" of trail regardless of how it gets there. The forks could be 75mm in front of the steering head, and the axle behind the fork, and from a geometry standpoint it wouldn't be any different than if the clamp had a zero offset with the axle way out in front of the forks. The forks could even be S shaped, or like the old leading link forks on the older BMW's or Greeves, as long as the trail figure is right.

One thing that does change is the effect that the weight of the fork has at low speed in trying to turn the wheel in. The larger the offset, the more they want to "flop over". But that's only at lower speed, and a 2mm change either way will have more effect on the steering geometry than on the flop-over effect, IMO.

  • ncmountainman

Posted November 10, 2006 - 03:31 PM

#26

Trail is trail, and 4" of trail (for instance) is going to be 4" of trail regardless of how it gets there. The forks could be 75mm in front of the steering head, and the axle behind the fork, and from a geometry standpoint it wouldn't be any different than if the clamp had a zero offset with the axle way out in front of the forks. The forks could even be S shaped, or like the old leading link forks on the older BMW's or Greeves, as long as the trail figure is right.

One thing that does change is the effect that the weight of the fork has at low speed in trying to turn the wheel in. The larger the offset, the more they want to "flop over". But that's only at lower speed, and a 2mm change either way will have more effect on the steering geometry than on the flop-over effect, IMO.

well then that answers that for me,so unless i just want more trail than the 23mm emigs allow me theres no reason to try the e-axle. i thought maybe the forks position would come into play in regards to the suspensions action;not so much the turning aspects(you know what happened to thought one don't ya !) thanx ,NC

  • twenty34

Posted July 07, 2007 - 05:15 PM

#27

I just ordered these for my '06 YZ450 and was wondering how well they've been working for other riders?:thumbsup:


Just wondering how your experience has been or any others with the 22mm offsets?

Not sure that I agree the 06 doesn't have a steering issue. I find it to be a bear in tight corners and ruts without completely riding on top of the tank.

  • Justin89

Posted July 07, 2007 - 09:58 PM

#28

Just wondering how your experience has been or any others with the 22mm offsets?

Not sure that I agree the 06 doesn't have a steering issue. I find it to be a bear in tight corners and ruts without completely riding on top of the tank.


I agree that they seem hard to turn stock. IMO the front seems to push and wash out a lot stock...I have the same clamps that you ordered and they make a hudge difference. They look good too! Good purchase.:thumbsup:

  • Ga426owner

Posted July 08, 2007 - 04:24 AM

#29

Just wondering how your experience has been or any others with the 22mm offsets?

Not sure that I agree the 06 doesn't have a steering issue. I find it to be a bear in tight corners and ruts without completely riding on top of the tank.


I have to agree now that I have tall seat foam - this helps you get on top of the tank....I would try the clamps at this point...just not sure if they would be 22s or 24s

  • bigred97

Posted July 08, 2007 - 04:19 PM

#30

You all have to be crazy. The yamaha pushes like crazy and could not take the inside line into anything. The only way to fix it is tighten the front end up. Zipty Racing makes an offset clamp for the yamaha that makes it turn. They will not tell you what the offset is, but I have a set and it is a whole new bike. Does not affect stability but lets you take any line you want inside or out. They are drastically straighter than the stock clamps as you can see that which must be the way they make it turn. I would look into them if I were you and want your yamaha to turn.

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  • twenty34

Posted July 08, 2007 - 05:19 PM

#31

You all have to be crazy. The yamaha pushes like crazy and could not take the inside line into anything. The only way to fix it is tighten the front end up. Zipty Racing makes an offset clamp for the yamaha that makes it turn. They will not tell you what the offset is, but I have a set and it is a whole new bike. Does not affect stability but lets you take any line you want inside or out. They are drastically straighter than the stock clamps as you can see that which must be the way they make it turn. I would look into them if I were you and want your yamaha to turn.


True...Those ZipTy clamps looks pretty sweet. They fit my bike, but I would need to know the offset beforehand. Why wouldn't they tell you the offset? That's strange.:thumbsup:

Also, it doesn't look like they include a pressed bearing with stem. Most of the others include the option to buy with the bearing. Since I don't have a shop and without a press I pretty much need to by a stem with pressed bearing. I'm outa luck.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 08, 2007 - 06:01 PM

#32

Also, it doesn't look like they include a pressed bearing with stem. Most of the others include the option to buy with the bearing. Since I don't have a shop and without a press I pretty much need to by a stem with pressed bearing. I'm outa luck.

Any competent machinist with a press could do that job for you quickly and cheaply.

  • twenty34

Posted July 08, 2007 - 06:50 PM

#33

Any competent machinist with a press could do that job for you quickly and cheaply.


Would they be able to take off the existing bearing as well? I believe that's just as tricky?

  • grayracer513

Posted July 08, 2007 - 06:55 PM

#34

You all have to be crazy. The yamaha pushes like crazy and could not take the inside line into anything.

There's no question that I'm crazy; thanks for noticing. :thumbsup:

However, when I ride the '06, I have no trouble at all taking any line I want, and I usually pass on the inside. It goes in way better than the '03 does, or ever did, even when I had 22.5mm clamps on it. Then again, I go inside of people on the '03, too. :thumbsup: It's just far easier to do on the '06.

Something to consider: the Rekluse E-Axle will let you change the trail 2mm either way in stepless increments. It's no more than half the cost of any full clamp set, and you can experiment with all kinds of settings and pick out what you like the best.

  • twenty34

Posted July 08, 2007 - 07:12 PM

#35

There's no question that I'm crazy; thanks for noticing. :thumbsup:

Something to consider: the Rekluse E-Axle will let you change the trail 2mm either way in stepless increments. It's no more than half the cost of any full clamp set, and you can experiment with all kinds of settings and pick out what you like the best.


So this may be one of those great products on paper, but one that doesn't get a lot of attention it appears.:thumbsup:

http://www.motocross...E2DF2CA3AADD63D

  • grayracer513

Posted July 08, 2007 - 07:26 PM

#36

Would they be able to take off the existing bearing as well? I believe that's just as tricky?

Nope, it's very simple: The clamp is supported on the bottom, and the stem is pushed out of both the clamp and the bearing simultaneously. When reassembling, they should be put back separately, but that's still simple.

For removal, the press operator should use a cylindrical object with a lot of surface area on the top face (at least a tube with 3/8' thick walls and a machined top surface). The hole down the center should be as close to the size of the stem and lock ring as possible. (the stem has a wire ring around the bottom, and the bottom 1/8" or so of the lower clamp is bored larger to clear it. this is what keeps the stem from pulling up out of the clamp when subjected to heavy loading in that direction). The stem will release from the clamp once it's been pushed about an inch down. It's also prudent to protect the top thread from damage with a brass or aluminum disk, or by screwing the top nut on.

Putting it back in, apply a little anti-seize paste, and push it in from the bottom until the ring seats, using the same support arbor you used to push it out. Then, flip it back over right side up, and support the clamp on the press bed by supporting under the base of the stem. Set the bearing in place, and push it on with a tube that will bear only on the end of the inner bearing race. The cage stands up over the race slightly, and if the tube is too large in O.D., it will be damaged.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 08, 2007 - 07:31 PM

#37

So this may be one of those great products on paper, but one that doesn't get a lot of attention it appears.:thumbsup:

http://www.motocross...E2DF2CA3AADD63D


I don't know why it doesn't, either. People may be distrustful of it for some reason. My guess is that if Rekluse though there was any real danger of it failing and injuring anyone, more so than the stock axle, at least, they wouldn't sell it the way things are these days.

  • Ga426owner

Posted July 09, 2007 - 05:49 AM

#38

You all have to be crazy. The yamaha pushes like crazy and could not take the inside line into anything. The only way to fix it is tighten the front end up. Zipty Racing makes an offset clamp for the yamaha that makes it turn. They will not tell you what the offset is, but I have a set and it is a whole new bike. Does not affect stability but lets you take any line you want inside or out. They are drastically straighter than the stock clamps as you can see that which must be the way they make it turn. I would look into them if I were you and want your yamaha to turn.


look I am a supporter of ZipTy Racing,,,,but that triple clamp kit looks like too much engineering has been put into it. And for 500.00 it is priced way too expensive. Please explain what the 20 pieces that go with this kit do? I want to know what offset it is that is the key...not all the extra wisbang techno stuff.

here is the link to this
http://www.ziptyraci...spx?id=MTYxMw==

  • bigred97

Posted July 09, 2007 - 08:51 AM

#39

The zipty clamps have alot of pieces but it is all for adjustability. You have 2mm adjustment on the rotation of the clamp in stock position, then you have a -5 offset for people who want their bars back, and then a +5 offset for people who run them forward. They are all rubber mounted and then come with 2 height adjustment spacers. This way you can make it what you want.
Zipty Racing wil not tell you the offset becasue they want to keep some secrets. This industry is reknowned for copying and being uncreative. Can't blame them for wanting to keep it sensetive. The cost on the clamps is right there with RG3. They are $499 without a stem, so I don't know what the issue is. You all have to remember, Zipty is a factory yamaha team, so they do get priveledged info on what makes these bikes work and all I know is it makes them work.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 09, 2007 - 09:26 AM

#40

First, the secrecy over the Zip-Ty offset is just silly, because any idiot could order one, measure the offset, and return it unused.

There seems to be less an effort to avoid disclosing that fact as a simple omission of any sort of description of the product at all. But in examining, the photo, I see nothing at all that suggests the fork offset is adjustable in any way. All the parts arrayed there appear to be for changing handlebar position.





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