2 stroke oil types


25 replies to this topic
  • steve_97060

Posted October 15, 2006 - 07:29 PM

#1

What is the difference in these 2 stroke oil types. standard non synthetic 2 stroke oil, synthetic blend, synthetic, and finally, Castor oils? is there a difference in performance and effectiveness with these?

thanks...

  • SupermotoAbuser

Posted October 15, 2006 - 07:35 PM

#2

Ya im not sure either but ive run a lot of different oils in my 125 and now im running Maxima Formula K-2 and I like it a lot. Plus all the other fluids in my bike are Maxima and the company is right by my house.

  • dtkiko

Posted October 15, 2006 - 09:39 PM

#3

there are two varieties of 2T oils, one is ester-based and the other is viscosity-based.

ester-based oils rely on protection of the engine by adsorption of the oil onto the components' surfaces, while in viscosity-based oils, benefits of lubrication is via the viscous property of the oil.

well-known ester-based 2T oils are motul's full-range of synthetic oils and shell's high-performance synthetic oils. castrol, repsol, amsoil, mobil1 etc synthetic 2T oils are viscosity-based oils.

  • olddude

Posted October 16, 2006 - 02:24 PM

#4

there are two varieties of 2T oils, one is ester-based and the other is viscosity-based.

ester-based oils rely on protection of the engine by adsorption of the oil onto the components' surfaces, while in viscosity-based oils, benefits of lubrication is via the viscous property of the oil.

well-known ester-based 2T oils are motul's full-range of synthetic oils and shell's high-performance synthetic oils. castrol, repsol, amsoil, mobil1 etc synthetic 2T oils are viscosity-based oils.

Which is better?

  • dontcare

Posted October 16, 2006 - 03:16 PM

#5

Buy some Klotz R-50, best two-stroke oil out there

  • steve_97060

Posted October 16, 2006 - 03:42 PM

#6

I wasn't really looking for opinions on which oil people liked best. I was hoping one of the resident oil experts might enlighten us on these different types of oils for our 2 strokes, (non synthetic, partially synthetic, synthetic, Castor) particularly Castor and what are the drawbacks or benefits of using any of them.

thanks...

  • dtkiko

Posted October 16, 2006 - 09:49 PM

#7

I wasn't really looking for opinions on which oil people liked best. I was hoping one of the resident oil experts might enlighten us on these different types of oils for our 2 strokes, (non synthetic, partially synthetic, synthetic, Castor) particularly Castor and what are the drawbacks or benefits of using any of them.

thanks...


ok mate, i'm not a performance oil guru but this is so far what i could share about 2T oils:

1. mineral oil - this is only suitable for every day use, like for city driving where you don't really rev your bike as much. it's the cheapest type of oil available.

2. semi-synthetic oil - companies offered this so that consumers would have the benefit of the high-resistance to oxidation qualities of a synthetic oil and the relatively cheaper price of the mineral oil. it's a crossover between the mineral oil and synthetic oil where mixture is always 50/50. this oil is already good for engine's protection, say running your engine between 6000 to less than 10,000 rpm, but not so much where you twist the throttle at prolonged periods in screaming revs. that 6000 to 10,000 rpm is based on my YZ125 (though i have no tachometer for it, it's just feelers. and i guess mate you know what i'm saying).

3. synthetic oil - for open-wide throttle, prolonged/ sustained high revs like 10,000 rpm and above, and over-speed conditions, the use of synthetic oils is highly recommended to protect your engine from siezure. actually, even though you're not running your engine at this stratospheric rpm range, the use of synthetic oil prolongs engine life and provides the highest or the best protection compared to mineral-based or semi-synthetic oils...and they cost a lot, of course. synthetic oils are product of highly-refined synthetic base stock and/or extremely altered refined mineral base stock. they are provided with performance additives and they have higher viscosity properties and higher flash points. in synthetic oils, there are two (2) varieties, where one variety is ester-based and the other is viscosity-based. you may read my previous post re the difference between these two.

4. castor oil - just like castrol A747 is made from a highly-refined mineral base stock added with performance additives. it has a flash point of almost 300 degrees celsius, higher than any of the synthetic oils i know of. castrol A747 is believed to be the ultimate high performance true-blue racing 2-stroke oil. but i don't use it anyhow...it cost way too much and using it requires you to clean the engine more often.

as far as my bikes are concerned, i'm using a semi-synthetic oil (castrol power1 2T) for my yamaha DT125 because i seldom use it in the trails where i run the engine most often than not between 5000 to 7500 rpm. for my YZ125, i ABSOLUTELY use ONLY synthetic racing oils (repsol moto competicion 2T or motul 800 off-road). i use it in technical trails and in race tracks.

  • dtkiko

Posted October 16, 2006 - 10:26 PM

#8

Which is better?


with regards to your question, mate, here's my post in one of the other threads:

i have no tangible evidence here in so far as exact or nominal values for engine's protection is concerned; though amsoil shows test results of its products versus other leading high-performance oil manufacturers, where it stands out.

one thing is for sure though:

1. yamaha racing recommends motul and its yamalube oils. for performance 2T oil yamaha recommends motul 800 off-road 2T or yamalube 2R;
2. honda racing recommends repsol. for performance 2T oil, honda recommends repsol moto competicion 2T;
3. kawasaki racing recommends castrol. kawasaki motocross team USA uses castrol TTS;
4. i don't know with suzuki, but travis pastrana is using motul 800 off-road 2T for his RM250; and
5. i don't know neither with ktm, but david knight is using motorex 2T for his EXC250.

it's up to us yamaha lovers actually to decide which is the best. all these oils were made, anyhow, with utmost diligence on research and honesty from manufacturers who only wants one thing - customer's satisfaction.

yamaha recommends motul but i'm actually using repsol (moto competicion 2T) for my YZ125, and i love it! :devil:

  • olddude

Posted October 17, 2006 - 01:33 PM

#9

with regards to your question, mate, here's my post in one of the other threads:

i have no tangible evidence here in so far as exact or nominal values for engine's protection is concerned; though amsoil shows test results of its products versus other leading high-performance oil manufacturers, where it stands out.

one thing is for sure though:

1. yamaha racing recommends motul and its yamalube oils. for performance 2T oil yamaha recommends motul 800 off-road 2T or yamalube 2R;
2. honda racing recommends repsol. for performance 2T oil, honda recommends repsol moto competicion 2T;
3. kawasaki racing recommends castrol. kawasaki motocross team USA uses castrol TTS;
4. i don't know with suzuki, but travis pastrana is using motul 800 off-road 2T for his RM250; and
5. i don't know neither with ktm, but david knight is using motorex 2T for his EXC250.

it's up to us yamaha lovers actually to decide which is the best. all these oils were made, anyhow, with utmost diligence on research and honesty from manufacturers who only wants one thing - customer's satisfaction.

yamaha recommends motul but i'm actually using repsol (moto competicion 2T) for my YZ125, and i love it! :devil:


OK, Motul is an ester based oil and it get's it's lubricating ability by actually being asorbed by the part that's being lubricated. Is that what you are saying?

Would this be the same thing that the Slick 50 people claimed would happen if you used Slick 50 in your engine? In theory they claimed the oil would impregnate the two metal surfaces that were working together by so many mils and that you would still have protection even if all the oil drained out of the engine. They even had a lawn mowyer engine that had a cutout section of the crankcase with a piece of plexiglass inserted in the cutout so you could see the inturnal parts of the engine working without any oil in the crankcase at all. I don't know how long it was supposed to run but the guy cranked the engine up right in my shop and it ran for an hour or more without locking up. Is this the same principal?

  • LostTrail

Posted October 17, 2006 - 02:53 PM

#10

If you ride your bike completely pinned at all times, use Castor Oil, it is the most protective but It is more likely to foul plugs, and if you lug around you want to use synthetic oil.

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  • pamatt

Posted October 17, 2006 - 04:06 PM

#11

What is the difference in these 2 stroke oil types. standard non synthetic 2 stroke oil, synthetic blend, synthetic, and finally, Castor oils? is there a difference in performance and effectiveness with these?

thanks...


If you want some correct information please call the companys. They will give you the facts about each product and remember most companys buy their sythetic base stock from mobile. Then they add their own additive packages.

  • dtkiko

Posted October 17, 2006 - 07:47 PM

#12

OK, Motul is an ester based oil and it get's it's lubricating ability by actually being asorbed by the part that's being lubricated. Is that what you are saying?

Would this be the same thing that the Slick 50 people claimed would happen if you used Slick 50 in your engine? In theory they claimed the oil would impregnate the two metal surfaces that were working together by so many mils and that you would still have protection even if all the oil drained out of the engine. They even had a lawn mowyer engine that had a cutout section of the crankcase with a piece of plexiglass inserted in the cutout so you could see the inturnal parts of the engine working without any oil in the crankcase at all. I don't know how long it was supposed to run but the guy cranked the engine up right in my shop and it ran for an hour or more without locking up. Is this the same principal?



not familiar with slick50, mate.

yeah, you are right there that protection vis-a-vis hydrodynamic lubrication provided by ester-based 2T oils like MOTUL 800 and SHELL advance X2 is via adsorption (cling onto a surface), thereby providing a film of protection between two (2) or multiple contact surfaces.

ester's molecules: consist of oxygen (O), which has a positive polarity, and hydrogen (H), which has a negative polarity. these two (2) molecules electrically adsorb onto the metal surfaces and form a layer known as ad molecule film. it is this ad molecule film that makes esters stand out from other oils (where film is created by viscosity).

the french (MOTUL) pioneered the ester-based lubrication technology, and the brits (SHELL, not CASTROL) adopted it later on. CASTROL, REPSOL, AMSOIL and all others are still using the old principle, which is lubrication by way of the viscous property of oils.

advantage of ester-based oils: the difference is obvious in its lubrication performance when starting the engine. with oils that depend on viscosity for film strength, pressure and oil will drop when the engine stops. when the engine is restarted, the film between the two metals no longer exists and this results to a dry start. ad molecule film on the other hand, does not rely on viscosity for fluid lubrication. therefore it is able to continuously lubricate between the two metals even if the engine stops :devil:

  • APBT

Posted October 18, 2006 - 01:41 AM

#13

How about the Mobil1 Racing 2T- is that ester based as well?

  • dtkiko

Posted October 18, 2006 - 02:24 AM

#14

How about the Mobil1 Racing 2T- is that ester based as well?


mobil1 racing 2T (exxon mobil, USA) is also a high-performance viscosity-type oil. it's also similar to the high-performance 2T oils made by amsoil (american-made), repsol (spanish-made), castrol (english-made) etc.

one must remember that any types of these fully-synthetic oils, whether its a product of the advanced/complex ester-type, or the conventional viscosity-type, they are all good in providing protection against engine wear and siezures.

all of these oils stated above including the ester-type (motul, shell advance, silkolene) are all API-TC, ISO-EGC/EGD, JASO FC/FD, and TISI compliant. if the oil that we're using complies, meets, or even exceeds any of these international standard regulating bodies, then you are very much sure that the product you are using is at optimum performance quality. :devil:

it is only repsol, that spanish oil company, that is honda specification compliant. why? because honda made a partnership with repsol as far as high-performance 2T/4T oil is concerned in honda's motoGP competition...nothing more special reason(s) other than that.

whether we're using any of the synthetics of mobil1, amsoil, maxima, castrol, motul, motorex, repsol, yamalube, silkolene, shell advance product lines, and any other high-performance oil products i've missed, we're on the right track. preference to which brand we wish to identify ourselves with is a personal choice.

  • dtkiko

Posted October 18, 2006 - 02:47 AM

#15

by the way, if any one of you folks are shifting from a viscosity-type of oil to an ester-type, be sure to drain first the gas tank and carburator's float bowl of the previous gas/oil mixture.

if you don't do that, you're asking for trouble...they have different properties and should not be mixed together.

kind regards.

  • APBT

Posted October 18, 2006 - 04:41 AM

#16

Dtkiko,

Excellent and informative posts, thank you. Keep up the good work.:devil:

  • olddude

Posted October 18, 2006 - 06:04 AM

#17

Dtkiko,

Excellent and informative posts, thank you. Keep up the good work.:devil:


Yeah, this is the frist time anybody has explained it to me that actually pointed out the different ways the oil actually protected the engine.

Then you had to throw in the part, "whether we're using any of the synthetics of mobil1, amsoil, maxima, castrol, motul, motorex, repsol, yamalube, silkolene, shell advance product lines, and any other high-performance oil products i've missed, we're on the right track. preference to which brand we wish to identify ourselves with is a personal choice.":banghead: I guess that still leaves that ol' "Which is better" question out there alive and kicking just waiting to be answered. I guess it sorta like the chicken or the egg thing, there just dosen't seem to be an answer to the question.:thumbsdn:

  • dtkiko

Posted October 18, 2006 - 06:12 AM

#18

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! you got me pissing myself up :thumbsdn: :thumbsdn:

if i were you i would try the european brands, after trying for yourself all the home-made brands out there.

tip: get the MOTUL 800 Factory Line Off-Road 2T for your YZ at a recommended pre-mixture of 50:1 (not 40:1, nor 32:1). just believe me, eh...:devil:

kind regards.

  • olddude

Posted October 18, 2006 - 09:15 AM

#19

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! you got me pissing myself up :excuseme: :cry:

if i were you i would try the european brands, after trying for yourself all the home-made brands out there.

tip: get the MOTUL 800 Factory Line Off-Road 2T for your YZ at a recommended pre-mixture of 50:1 (not 40:1, nor 32:1). just believe me, eh...:devil:

kind regards.


MAN! you done did it again:bonk: You mean I'm supposed to be running the Motul at 50:1???? I'm so cornfused. :thumbsdn: Hear's another question. Should you run the oil makers recomended ratio or, the bike manufactures recommended ratio? This is all to confusing I think I'll sell the bike and take up golf.:thumbsdn:

  • RCannon

Posted October 18, 2006 - 01:03 PM

#20

You guys should all use synthetic. Preferably the Klotz. It smells so good when you fly past me. None of that strawberry sented stuff from motul, please. That just smells strange. I like the "vanilla cake" smell from the klotz.

I will continue to use Yamalube r. Its somewhat cheap and has never failed me. I have used it since 1978.





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