xr650r vs 600 sportbike


43 replies to this topic
  • SniperTeamBravo

Posted October 04, 2006 - 02:29 PM

#21

First off....the XR 650 L is a dog..... the R version is another story.


I've come from the other direction....

I first had a Kawasaki ZX-6R/2 years -- and for the last 3 years owned & rode a 2002 Honda 954RR....(moded out with around 145-150HP at the rearwheel)

I made the decision to sell the sportbike and Motard out a 2002 Honda XR650R.

I continually still ride with my old riding group ---- which is all Liter bikes....Hyabusa, ZX-9, 1000RR, 1100xx Blackbird, etc. etc.... the XR smokes the 600's in the group. Yeah, ok. straightup drag race --- they pull away. (but not until 80-95 MPH) Get into the corners - I usually work my way up front passing people from the drive out of the corners.

What sold me is this..... I layed down the 954 this spring - a single low side at Deal's Gap -- cost $2500.00 in repairs. 2 weeks ago, I low sided the XR.......$70.00 for a new Acerbis handguard - got up and kept riding.

The Cost per Grin factor is way different.

Finale note ---- don't by the SV650 --- it really does have bad suspension. (read - completely non-adjustable) How about the Honda F4I...fairly upright position, great power, good suspension, can be bought cheap. ($3500-4000)
(The Honda 600RR would be more race oriented...also more uncomfortable to ride lond distances....)



There ya go, I went from a 2001 GSXR600 tricked out to my 1996 XR610R supermoto, the difference in weight, GSXR about 415, the XR right at 270 loaded with gas and ready to ROCK! Plus, the GSXR about 30ft lbs of TQ, but up at 10,000rpm, my XR610R about 40ftlbs at about 3 thats three RPM!!

  • Poe

Posted October 05, 2006 - 07:05 PM

#22

Questions. How bad is the suspension stock, how much to "mod" it to make it ok/safer if it isn't already, and how is it in heavy (40mph) cross winds with big trucks around compared to other bikes.

I like to have fun as much as anyone but am much more concerned with safety at this point.

.

The SV650 is a budget bike. I got my brand new '03 as a leftover just as the '04's were hitting the showroom floor for $5300 out the door. $3000 will get you a really nice used one. Really, the only place they skimped on was the suspension though. It's not completely non-adjustable as someone said... you can adjust preload front ('03-up) & rear... but that's it. How "bad" is it stock? Well, that depends on how hard you push it in the corners. It's really not going to be a problem unless you're riding at 10/10ths in a turn on the street (which is not smart to start with) and hit an unexpected bump or a chunk of debris. For 'sane" riding, it's prefectly fine. I've got about 12k miles on mine with the stock suspension and it's not THAT bad. I do plenty of aggressive riding in the western NC/TN mountains too. Deal's Gap, etc. The only time I've ever had a problem was when I was leaned way over in a sharp corner at about 45 MPH and target fixated on some debris in the road and headed right for it. It turned out to be a wedge of wood that someone had cut out of a tree (I assume when cutting it down) about two inches tall at the wide end - and I hit it. It upset the bike really bad, but I managed to ride it out. Had to change my underwear afterward though!

As for the forks, the springs are pretty soft (rumored to be correct for a 120 lb rider), so there's a considerable amount of dive when braking if you weigh more than that (and who doesn't). Heavier springs are easy to drop in and only cost about $100. Most people are satisfied with just doing that - along with adding thicker fork oil for better damping. The next step up is to put in some Race Tech Cartridge Emulators - which make the stock damper rods work more like a cartridge fork. This requires some modification to you stock damper rod - OR - you can just buy these for $250 and drop them in: clicky. It's the same thing as the RT Emulators + your modified stock damper rod, but all the extra work is already done for you - and it's easy to put back to stock if you sell/trade, and you can then sell the kit. I'm planning to go that route. For $1000, you can make them true cartridge forks with these clicky - but I'd say that would be total overkill for anything less than racing. Another option many people take is to find a pair of GSXR forks on eBay or a slavage yard for CHEAP and bolt them on. You'll need the front wheel and brakes too.

As for the rear shock, there are several companies who make direct bolt-in replacement shocks specifically for the SV... like Penske, Hagon, Ohlins, etc. - but they're expensive ($500-up). You can also go the eBay route here and bolt on a shock from a higher-end bike. You can usually find a good GSXR, ZX-6, etc. shock for $30-$100. In some cases you'll have to modify the battery box to make room for the piggyback reservoir on the shock (since the stock shock doesn't have one.

So, to say "Don't buy an SV because the suspension is really bad" is a bit harsh. It's really not THAT bad stock (certainly not to the point of being "dangerous") - and can be made quite good for less than $500 - or as good as anything out there for a couple grand. It just depends on your needs.

  • azmanxman

Posted October 05, 2006 - 08:38 PM

#23

Here's one way of looking at it.

I'm a firefighter/EMT.

Number of motorcycle accidents I've been to in say the last five years? 20 or so.

Number of them that involved sports bikes? 16 or 17.

Number of them that were dual-sports/legal off road bikes? 0.

I've ridden my buddies 900 Ducati and I know I love speed just like you. But for me..................I'm sticking with my XR600R.

  • coffee

Posted October 06, 2006 - 08:18 AM

#24

The SV650 is a budget bike....How "bad" is it stock? Well, that depends on how hard you push it in the corners. It's really not going to be a problem unless you're riding at 10/10ths in a turn on the street

Thank you for the most complete, sane, and balanced answer I have received to far. If that bike is in my future it will be a 6/10ths max. I have ridden some REALLY awful bikes with knobbies on the road and understand the limitations - or at least the concept.

In your first clicky/link is there any reason they only well up to 2004? I knew about the race tech but did not know there was an after market drop in, thanks again.

.

  • MindBlower

Posted October 06, 2006 - 08:45 AM

#25

excuse my stupidity but i don't know much about sport bikes. i looked at the sv650 you guys were talking about and don't really see how that would be any different then a cbr600rr or an r6. am i wrong?



Yeh, lot different. More relaxed steering, braking, speed, seating, etc. It's a twin (2 cyl), they are much more like a single, torquey, solid, great sound. Not hyper like a 4 cyl (all the sport bikes, that rev through the roof and make TWICE the power of a comparable twin.
Another great choice would be my favorite street bike, the Honda NT650GT (Hawk GT) made from 88-91. Fabulous bike, great fun. Many adoring followers so there are some well cared for bikes out there. It was the inspiration for the SV650 in fact. Exact same concept but with 10 less hp.

  • sorenlaf

Posted October 06, 2006 - 01:13 PM

#26

Here's one way of looking at it.

I'm a firefighter/EMT.

Number of motorcycle accidents I've been to in say the last five years? 20 or so.

Number of them that involved sports bikes? 16 or 17.

Number of them that were dual-sports/legal off road bikes? 0.

I've ridden my buddies 900 Ducati and I know I love speed just like you. But for me..................I'm sticking with my XR600R.


That's a rider issue, not a bike issue.

It's also un-normalized data, and a small data set, which makes it worthless.

A guy I race with did some serious ankle damage riding his dual sport (xr600) on the street.

Given that the people I know ride way more miles on sportbikes than dualsports, and while there are definately more injuries on sportbikes, the injuries per mile riden (normalized data) show more injuries per mile on dual sports.

Of course, my data set is also small enough that it's worthless.

  • Poe

Posted October 06, 2006 - 06:54 PM

#27

In your first clicky/link is there any reason they only well up to 2004? I knew about the race tech but did not know there was an after market drop in, thanks again.

I suspect they just haven't updated their website - because the SV forks have not changed at all since the redesign in '03 (the '07 remains unchanged as well).

If you're even remotely interested in the SV650, go spend some time on www.svrider.com and you'll be sold pretty quick. There's a really good group of people over there - all different ages - and from very different backgrounds and riding experience levels (much like here). Some are totally green beginners and some have owned a dozen bikes or more. The tech forum is full of very knowledgable people - including many racers. Lots of good info. Several people have moved on to other bikes, but they still hang out on that forum. It had a big influence on my decision to buy one.

  • coffee

Posted October 06, 2006 - 08:33 PM

#28

If you're even remotely interested in the SV650, go spend some time on www.svrider.com and you'll be sold pretty quick.

Thanks mucho.
:devil:
.

  • PIP RC51

Posted October 07, 2006 - 06:54 AM

#29

Great thread, makes me really think about Why I am in reverse. I mean, I rode dirt as a kid and teen, moved to Florida in 90 and have been on the street ever since. I have owned a number of street / sport bikes. Ducati 750SS, GSXR750, FJ1200, FZR1000, and now my RC51 (love it like a son) I average 3000-5000 miles a year and it is ALL on back roads in Ohio and WVa. on the twisties.
Modern sportbikes are made to speed...... and that is it. Like the a YZ250 is made for the MX track......... and that's it. You can ride both differently but it's not fun. My RC51 is HELL on the interstate. But when I was doing alot of track days (in 04) lapping the local track Quick, it felt soo easy. Soo easy that I let the fun factor over-ride my thought process and hit the ground at 110 and landed in the hospital for a week with 2.5 hours of surgery putting my right shoulder all back together and 12.5 weeks off work thinking about my mistake. The bike was in it's element tho.
Now i want to return to off roading with the capability to street sport it when needed. I am purchasing a R next Tuesday, still keeping my RC51. I want a set of 17's for supermoto mode and within a 1/2 hour swap, it can be back to dirt mode to go out and smoke all bikes in the woods. (my wish)

In conclusion, sport bikes on twistie roads are fun.......... REAL FUN....... But if you'r riding them as designed you will be at 80-120 mph ALL THE TIME dirt bikes in street trim just don't feel safe doing that. Danger factor is exagurated and when you hit the pavement your chance of non-body-harm is low. The 650R in street trim can be ridden down that same roadar 40-70 and still have the same if not more fun. When you hit the pavement at that speed you will have much better chance of living to tell the tell.

You just NEED one of each. That is the easiest way round it.
(that is what I told the wife for my sells pitch :devil: )


PIP

  • MindBlower

Posted October 07, 2006 - 07:11 AM

#30

That's a rider issue, not a bike issue.

It's also un-normalized data, and a small data set, which makes it worthless.

A guy I race with did some serious ankle damage riding his dual sport (xr600) on the street.

Given that the people I know ride way more miles on sportbikes than dualsports, and while there are definately more injuries on sportbikes, the injuries per mile riden (normalized data) show more injuries per mile on dual sports.

Of course, my data set is also small enough that it's worthless.


Not to mention that huge % of crotch rockets sales are to newbies and teenager newbies. Put new riders on 100hp hyper revving crotchrockets has disaster all over it. We get flocks of high school kids riding together. ALL on CR's, many with pretty young thangs hanging on for dear life, lots with nice gloves, a few with jackets, even a couple with full on body suits. And none with a helmet. :devil:

Most DS's are of a ahh, 'more mature' stature. Ok, old farts. Lots of lessons learned, invulnerability delusions in the past, etc

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • MindBlower

Posted October 07, 2006 - 07:15 AM

#31

Thanks mucho.
:devil:
.


http://www.hawkgt.com/

Here's what they look like after most of the common mods if you want to update things.
http://dot.com.ph/uncle/hawkgt.html

  • coffee

Posted October 07, 2006 - 09:12 AM

#32

Here's what they look like after most of the common mods if you want to update things.
http://dot.com.ph/uncle/hawkgt.html


"I smuggled my Hawk to the Philippines the hard way. Totally disassembled it, and took the frame as check in luggage"

That is my definition of "enthusiast"!

.

  • kball

Posted October 08, 2006 - 10:32 AM

#33

I've been riding since 8yrs old. I'm now 29 and I like to think of myself as an above average rider. I've had tons of different bikes. honda cr's of every cc, a '90rz350, r6, rc51, etc. The sportbike scene is full of posers who have never thrown the bike into a turn hard. Where I live, there's the guys who ride hard. We don't hang out at coffee shops and cruise downtown-ever. If this is you, buy a sportbike. My rc51 was a beat up looking thing with bug splats all over it. It got stolen so I bought a sumo xr650r to share the garage with my cr500 street legal motard. Experienced or not, you'll have more fun on the street w/a bike that has realistic speeds for it. If you plan on track days, go for the sportbike. We have a kart track we use for sumo. Tight and fast track perfect for motards. I went away from sportbikes because of all the straight line heroes who fly by you in a track suit then almost come to a stop when they see a turn coming.

And a modern supersport bike will run circles around a 650r all day with equal riders.

  • kball

Posted October 08, 2006 - 10:38 AM

#34

If you can't ride fast, get a bike that looks like you can!

  • adam574

Posted October 08, 2006 - 11:59 AM

#35

i am leaning towards keeping my bike. i rode a sport bike didn't really like it so i think i will at least wait until my other friends get them. like kball i am not really your drive it to the local hot spot and hang out kinda guy. i pretty much drive it back and fourth to work for the most part and sometimes me and the girl will take it to a friends house on the weekends. probably somewhere around 4000 miles a year. as far as safety i just felt way safer on my dualsport then on the sport bike.

  • Ferdinand

Posted October 08, 2006 - 01:04 PM

#36

That's a rider issue, not a bike issue.
.

:devil: Maybe so, but at the local Cycle Salvage this year I would say everytime I was out there ordering stuff it was 75% sportbikes and mix of others sitting round.

  • zx7rye

Posted October 08, 2006 - 01:55 PM

#37

Having spent many hours at the track...it takes a lot for me to be in awe of roadracing performances. I did, however, witness a most impressive feat a couple years ago. CRF450 in the hands of Jeff Wood. I believe it was a 1:15 flat turned at Loudon...Mat Mladin's track record is a 1:09. Granted, Loudon is a technical track but in the hands of a skilled pilot, a motard can make many a fool quickly.

This has completely made me re-think what really makes "Fast". It is certainly not the 160hp zx10 by itself. I am taking my zx7 off the road monday for a prolonged tear down and re-installing the 750cc motor (and selling the zx9 motor I put in the chassis...because it doesn't make me faster!) Keep the piggie and eat em up on our nice Vt. roads. :devil:

  • Rocket_1

Posted June 27, 2007 - 05:52 AM

#38

i currently own a 03 650r that i do like alot but i just don't ride it that much in the dirt at all. what i am curious to find out is how is this bike compared to something like a cbr600 or other bikes of it's size. i know these sport bikes put out alot more horse and such but then i hear on the race track the supermoto bikes are doing very well against them. so my question is, is a sport bike that much faster and more comfortable then the 650r is. any comparissons someone can give me between the two would be great. i have never owned a sportbike and i am considering getting rid of the 650 to get one. i realize it is hard to compare two bikes that are so different but i am more or less looking for what the sportbikes will offer me that the 650 doesn't.


thanks,
adam

I read the thread, but I think some of the replies missed the point. A motard can stick with a 600 sportsbike quite easily around any twisty road, but long straights, i get left in the dust, but make it up on corner entry speed, apex speed...Not sure how an XR 650 will do but I regularly spank 600 sportsbikes around our twisties,and the odd 1000. On a DRZ 400 motard. So a motard can do the job, not a dual purpose machine...

  • Rocket_1

Posted June 27, 2007 - 06:01 AM

#39

if we leave racers out of the equation,and leave it to everyday riders....that is!

  • Rocket_1

Posted June 27, 2007 - 06:07 AM

#40

if we leave racers out of the equation,and leave it to everyday riders....that is!





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