xr650r vs 600 sportbike


43 replies to this topic
  • adam574

Posted October 02, 2006 - 07:28 PM

#1

i currently own a 03 650r that i do like alot but i just don't ride it that much in the dirt at all. what i am curious to find out is how is this bike compared to something like a cbr600 or other bikes of it's size. i know these sport bikes put out alot more horse and such but then i hear on the race track the supermoto bikes are doing very well against them. so my question is, is a sport bike that much faster and more comfortable then the 650r is. any comparissons someone can give me between the two would be great. i have never owned a sportbike and i am considering getting rid of the 650 to get one. i realize it is hard to compare two bikes that are so different but i am more or less looking for what the sportbikes will offer me that the 650 doesn't.


thanks,
adam

  • Trick188

Posted October 02, 2006 - 08:07 PM

#2

yeah a 600 sportbike will pretty much smoke it, even a cbr sportbike, especially over about 30 mph

  • cleonard

Posted October 02, 2006 - 09:53 PM

#3

The 650R only has two things going for it. Better low end torque and less weight. In every other category the sport bike will completely smoke it. Let's see at least 1.5 times (or more) the horsepower, better tires, better brakes, suspension tuned for the street.

I picked up a 1980 Honda CM400 for commuting to work. I have a total of about $500 in that bike. It's way better on the road than my XR600 is. Much more comfortable and sure footed. It kind of amazed me how it sticks to the pavement. A modern sportbike will be much much better than my old bike.

  • Leget

Posted October 03, 2006 - 02:29 AM

#4

I had an FZR600 for about two years, and for what it was designed for it was great.

One bad thing about sport bikes is that they are (in my opinion) "single purpose", they are designed to go fast on a track.

It was a blast on "twisty" roads, but it sucked on the interstate, through town, on long trips, and with a passenger.

Again, this is just my opinion, I think they make a great "other" bike, but I wouldn't want it to be my "only" bike.

But everyone is a unique individual, just like everyone else.......

  • pburke

Posted October 03, 2006 - 10:03 AM

#5

sport bikes these days are way too "focused" on going fast - hard not to go fast on them. They will be scary fast if you open them up, though. The only place an XR650R could stay with one of these rockets is in very tight twisty corners, tight uphill roads, where brakes matter less than torque and weight.

However, when I last rode a friend's sports bike for a few days I realized that if you get one fo these you will either a) get a ticket, :lame: injure yourself, or c) be frustrated all day long because you can't stretch it's legs without risking a) or :p

Add to that the insurance rate difference (I'd pay at least 3x for a sports bike than for the XR650R), depreciation, etc, and you really have to WANT to own one to "live the sportsbike lifestyle" as some silly TV show in SpeedTV is trying to suggest (people doing stoppies and wheelies all day long.. right)

Now, that all said, I really want to enjoy one of these fast bikes, but I won't get one unless I can afford to race it. A closed race track with strict rules and emergency staff on hand is the only place these things belong. Given tires will cost you more than the bike in a short time, the racing thing isn't gonna happen anytime soon for me. I'm way too tall/heavyu to be competive anyway :thumbsup:

  • adam574

Posted October 03, 2006 - 06:15 PM

#6

i definately see the points you guys made.. especially the one were these bikes really do want to go very very fast, and the temptation will always be there. i rode a buddies today for the first time and it felt way different. anything about thirty it felt way more stable but going slower it seemed very heavy. especially going at a parking lot speed it didn't seem stable at all. maybe instead of getting a sport bike i will go up two teeth on my front and get some full street tires for my bike and see how that is. definately alot cheaper then buying a whole new bike. one thing i did like about the sport bike is that it didn't seem to have any engine braking at all. where the 650r decelerates alot just on the motor alone which makes it uncomfortable to cruise around.

  • oilplug

Posted October 03, 2006 - 07:14 PM

#7

600cc sportbikes are awesome and have the most tech put into them of any bike today. These things put out well over 100hp. I had a CBR 600 F2 which was fun and semi-comfortable to tour on. I reluctantly sold it to finanace a house and because travelling for work had killed the fun of going anywhere for me.

Dualsport/dirtbikes bikes are about exploring not speed. I'll have another sportbike again some day. Always good to add to the fleet. :thumbsup:

  • coffee

Posted October 03, 2006 - 07:39 PM

#8

sport bikes these days are way too "focused" on going fast...

Been thinking about this for a while for myself - isn't there anything in between? Something that is stable in the wind (my issue), feels stable on the road, but doesn't go 150mph? sv650?

.

  • 2000 xr650r

Posted October 03, 2006 - 07:52 PM

#9

As for speed in a drag a new style 600 should smoke a 650r over 50mph. I have draged two diffrent street bikes. I raced a 1988 honda huricane 600 and a 85 kawasaki 750. I realize technology has gotton much much better since 1985 and 1988. The huricane was 85hp stock. I smoked both bikes off the line. The hurricane passed me when i hit 95mph and the 750 passed me at 80mph. This may not add to your question but if you get a street bike get a EFI one for sure and even if you get a street bike KEEP the 650.

  • sportbiker929

Posted October 03, 2006 - 07:55 PM

#10

having owned both, i would say a capable rider on an properly setup XR650 on any track (other than a high speed circut) can school any bike out there except maybe a new 450 supermoto or a 250 GP bike. Its all the rider. Set up your XR and ride this piss out of it. Sportbikes cost way more to fix if and when you dump. And a Xr with a proper exhaust sounds way better as well.

Mitch

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  • Poe

Posted October 03, 2006 - 09:03 PM

#11

Been thinking about this for a while for myself - isn't there anything in between? Something that is stable in the wind (my issue), feels stable on the road, but doesn't go 150mph? sv650?
.

You just answered your own question... SV650! I have a naked '03 SV650 and it's a BLAST! I've put about 12k miles on it so far - and it still puts a big smile on my face every time I get on it. It'll easily hang with the 600cc supersports up to about 80mph - and then they walk away. It tops out at about 120mph, but that's plenty. Very light & flickable with gobs of sweet v-twin low-end torque. It's really in its element when carving up twisty backroads. Lots of people buy them to use as track bikes too. Practically every article I've ever read labeled it as one of the most fun motorcycles ever made - and I totally agree. The stock suspension is fairly bargain-basement, but is easily upgraded if you so desire. The rest of it is great as is. Durable too. One of the regulars on svrider.com ("RandyO") has over 130K miles on his SV and it's still going strong. Original engine... pistons, rings, valves, etc. - never been rebuilt.

That said... I really missed riding dirt roads/trails/woods, so I recently added a '93 XR650L to the stable to fill that niche. The key word there is ADDED... the SV stays!. A lot of you obviously feel the same way about your XRs. It's quite possible that these two bikes together are the perfect combination. I haven't had much time on the XR yet, but so far I like it a lot! I'm hoping to do an organized dual-sport ride next weekend in the western NC mountains. Should be a lot of fun.

  • adam574

Posted October 03, 2006 - 10:54 PM

#12

excuse my stupidity but i don't know much about sport bikes. i looked at the sv650 you guys were talking about and don't really see how that would be any different then a cbr600rr or an r6. am i wrong?

  • Cpres

Posted October 03, 2006 - 11:01 PM

#13

More comfortable, more real world oriented power and speed.

  • SniperTeamBravo

Posted October 04, 2006 - 07:41 AM

#14

Man, you would get such different answers on supermotojunkie.com than here about this question! I have two XR600s, one a desertbike with a ton of stuff done to it and the other a supermoto. I live on a mountain road, yeah Im lucky! Anyway, I can sooo easily smoke most sportbikes on the twisties, and keep up in short streights. They pull me in longer streights, but up to about 60~70 I am neck and neck...so if you tard (thats supermoto speak for putting SM gear on a dirtbike) the XR650, you'll love it. A sportbike is also so much more uncomfortable in general riding than a tarded dirtbike. Now the benifit of a sportbike is top end and they are better on the freeway as long as the comfort factor doesnt wear you out. But tard the XR and youll find it will become the funnest thing on two wheels! Heck, if you want it faster, just throw in a cam and big bore kit and put on a quality Keihin FCR carby and itll smoke most sportbikes to about 80mph. Click on my garage to see mine if you are interested.

  • coffee

Posted October 04, 2006 - 09:49 AM

#15

You just answered your own question... SV650! ...The stock suspension is fairly bargain-basement, but is easily upgraded if you so desire.

Questions. How bad is the suspension stock, how much to "mod" it to make it ok/safer if it isn't already, and how is it in heavy (40mph) cross winds with big trucks around compared to other bikes.

I like to have fun as much as anyone but am much more concerned with safety at this point.

.

  • cleonard

Posted October 04, 2006 - 10:12 AM

#16

Questions. How bad is the suspension stock, how much to "mod" it to make it ok/safer if it isn't already, and how is it in heavy (40mph) cross winds with big trucks around compared to other bikes.

I like to have fun as much as anyone but am much more concerned with safety at this point.

.


Every bike sucks in a crosswind. The only things that help are lots of mass, small size, and a low center of gravity.

The SV650 is sort of an in between bike. Part sport bike and part standard. Suzuki also offers the same engine in a more "standard" package, the DL650 aka V-storm. I was leaning to a SV650 for my next road bike, but I think it will be a V-storm now. It's a bit more suited for comfortable long distance riding.

  • adam574

Posted October 04, 2006 - 10:15 AM

#17

sniperteambravo, my bike is somewhat of a motard. i didn't lower it or anything but i do have some cbr f3 wheels on it which i honestly don't really like that much. i don't have any comparison but they seem to way a crap load more then my dirt wheels which makes the bike feel considerably. maybe if i buy some real spoked supermoto wheels i would be more happy with it and gear it up alot more.

  • sorenlaf

Posted October 04, 2006 - 02:22 PM

#18

having owned both, i would say a capable rider on an properly setup XR650 on any track (other than a high speed circut) can school any bike out there except maybe a new 450 supermoto or a 250 GP bike. Its all the rider. Set up your XR and ride this piss out of it. Sportbikes cost way more to fix if and when you dump. And a Xr with a proper exhaust sounds way better as well.

Mitch


Not a chance, a 600 sportbike will kill an xr650 on any, repeat any, road circuit.

I race in AFM. We have a class (formula singles) where some people race xr650s.

We also have a 600 production class for more or less stock 600 sportbikes.

We race sears point, thunderhill, and buttonwillow.

As you may know, sears is a very technical track and rewards a good rider more than lots of power, particularly now that we run the AMA course instead of the "classic" course.

Top times in formula singles are generally 10 seconds a lap slower than 600p, and formula single are allowed unlimitted engine mods and slicks. 600p permits some engine mods (model years 2005 and earlier) or no engine mods (model years 2006 and later).

In fact, an xr650L could run in 600p (bike must originally be sold for road use in the US for the production class), could be bored to 750cc (singles and twins are allowed to run "down a class"), and could have (model year 2005 or earlier) any desired engine work except being stroked, but would be restricted to the stock carb. In formula singles, there are no carb restrictions.

Those are the actual real-world results, not some dream or what-if.

10 seconds a lap slower.

It gets worse, the fastest bike in FS (the one running 10 seconds behind the 600 sportbikes) is a 125gp bike with a crf450 engine. The XR650s are slower.

  • arctic954

Posted October 04, 2006 - 02:23 PM

#19

First off....the XR 650 L is a dog..... the R version is another story....


I've come from the other direction....

I first had a Kawasaki ZX-6R/2 years -- and for the last 3 years owned & rode a 2002 Honda 954RR....(moded out with around 145-150HP at the rearwheel)

I made the decision to sell the sportbike and Motard out a 2002 Honda XR650R.

I continually still ride with my old riding group ---- which is all Liter bikes....Hyabusa, ZX-9, 1000RR, 1100xx Blackbird, etc. etc.... the XR smokes the 600's in the group. Yeah, ok. straightup drag race --- they pull away. (but not until 80-95 MPH) Get into the corners - I usually work my way up front passing people from the drive out of the corners.

What sold me is this..... I layed down the 954 this spring - a single low side at Deal's Gap -- cost $2500.00 in repairs. 2 weeks ago, I low sided the XR.......$70.00 for a new Acerbis handguard - got up and kept riding.

The Cost per Grin factor is way different.

Final note ---- don't by the SV650 --- it really does have bad suspension. (read - completely non-adjustable) How about the Honda F4I...fairly upright position, great power, good suspension, can be bought cheap. ($3500-4000)
(The Honda 600RR would be more race oriented...also more uncomfortable to ride lond distances....)

  • SniperTeamBravo

Posted October 04, 2006 - 02:25 PM

#20

sniperteambravo, my bike is somewhat of a motard. i didn't lower it or anything but i do have some cbr f3 wheels on it which i honestly don't really like that much. i don't have any comparison but they seem to way a crap load more then my dirt wheels which makes the bike feel considerably. maybe if i buy some real spoked supermoto wheels i would be more happy with it and gear it up alot more.

Hallaluja! YES! Sportbike wheels are about 10 pounds heavier than a set like my Excells with billett hubs, each! Thats over 20 pounds of un-sprung weight which is ROBBING you of about 15hP! Remember, reciprocating mass.....on the front wheel you can even feel a difference of 2 pounds, let alone 10 or more. My sm setup is about a total of 4 pounds heavier than stock and thats with a 320mm front rotor, a set of stock CBR F3 wheels is about 10 more in front than mine, and 15 heavier in the rear! WOW no wonder the thing feels sluggish.





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