any rumors about crf650/r /l /sm?

[DEAN rus]

this topic was at spring. any new rumors or it was only somebody's daydream?

[abs600fzrr]

they need to update that damn XR650L.....its just heavy and old.

[Old_Man_Time]

There was nothing at the dealers show. In fact my Honda dealer was a bit disappointed. There was the new CRF150 which according to my dealer is one fun bike. But other than a few minor changes made to the quads he said there was nothing new.

[oilplug]

Hell if there's no rumours lets make one up

XR 650 OP2WD spotted testing in Baja

Unnamed but reliable sources have spotted what appears to be the successor to Honda's venerable XR 650L dual sport machine undergoing testing in Baja. Some changes have been predictable bringing the machine in line with it's off only road brother XR 650R, liquid cooling, improved suspension and aluminum frame all topping the list.

What was unexpected was the OP designation for Oval Piston. First seen on Honda's ill fated GP bikes of the early 80's and later on in the limited production NR 750 that ended up mostly in the hands of wealthy collectors. This would be Honda's first mainstream push of the technology and may be in response to the high tech V-Twin Aprillia dirtbikes now appearing on the market. One unnamed Honda rep reported that the bike would rev to "at least 18 000 rpm and producing in excess of 80hp".

Taking a cue from Yamaha and KTM the new XR 650 OP/2WD will have an optional Ohlin's supplied 2 wheeled drive system. This extra grip was deemed necessary given the high horsepower and lightweight targets set by Honda engineers.

The new multi functional speedo/temp/fuel/rpm/servicing/ display will also include a GPS function. Seen on many Honda ATV's these factory built GPS units are a first in the industry. Expect them to show up on the next generation VFR and on the 09 Gold Wing.

[motorider05]

2007 XR650r is no longer available in Canada, XR650l yes. Was flipping through the 2007 line up catalog very disappointed. Honda is starting to make major cuts.

[rmhrc630]

2007 XR650r is no longer available in Canada, XR650l yes. Was flipping through the 2007 line up catalog very disappointed. Honda is starting to make major cuts.

Thats very interesting

As you prob all know there is no longer a XR650 R or L down here - they stopped last year.

some lame ass excuse like emissions - yeah right.

[Old_Man_Time]

My dealer told me that he was only allocated 2 XR650L's this year. In the past he has always been allocated 7. He sells them all every year. He is a little upset but hasn't any idea why the change. This is not a rumor but what he actually told me last week.

I told him my opinion is they are going to discontinue it and so under producing them this year to make sure there is no stock left over when a new bike is introduced for 2008.

I have not heard anything about the R being discontinued but would not be surprised because they don't seem to move them very fast. I have bought two of them off the showroom floor since 2000 and am thinking about another if the price keeps going down on the 06 and 05 models. One shop in our state had two 05's for $3999. brand new. They are both gone now. Thats a lot of bike for $4000.

[Huffa 2]

My dealer told me that he was only allocated 2 XR650L's this year. In the past he has always been allocated 7. He sells them all every year. He is a little upset but hasn't any idea why the change. This is not a rumor but what he actually told me last week.

I told him my opinion is they are going to discontinue it and so under producing them this year to make sure there is no stock left over when a new bike is introduced for 2008.

I have not heard anything about the R being discontinued but would not be surprised because they don't seem to move them very fast. I have bought two of them off the showroom floor since 2000 and am thinking about another if the price keeps going down on the 06 and 05 models. One shop in our state had two 05's for $3999. brand new. They are both gone now. Thats a lot of bike for $4000.

Anyone notice how many low mileage R's are on ebay? I have been watching for quite a while now and see 00-03's with 77 miles, 96 miles, 300 miles, 5 hors , 8 hours, IT NUTS!! Why buy new when they ARE almost new??

The 400's go for as much as the 650's in a lot of cases. HECK the 250's fetch a good buck !! The 650's are fantastic deals, must be the horsepower - weight scaring people off??

[rebelventurer]

Hell if there's no rumours lets make one up

XR 650 OP2WD spotted testing in Baja

Unnamed but reliable sources have spotted what appears to be the successor to Honda's venerable XR 650L dual sport machine undergoing testing in Baja. Some changes have been predictable bringing the machine in line with it's off only road brother XR 650R, liquid cooling, improved suspension and aluminum frame all topping the list.

What was unexpected was the OP designation for Oval Piston. First seen on Honda's ill fated GP bikes of the early 80's and later on in the limited production NR 750 that ended up mostly in the hands of wealthy collectors. This would be Honda's first mainstream push of the technology and may be in response to the high tech V-Twin Aprillia dirtbikes now appearing on the market. One unnamed Honda rep reported that the bike would rev to "at least 18 000 rpm and producing in excess of 80hp".

Taking a cue from Yamaha and KTM the new XR 650 OP/2WD will have an optional Ohlin's supplied 2 wheeled drive system. This extra grip was deemed necessary given the high horsepower and lightweight targets set by Honda engineers.

The new multi functional speedo/temp/fuel/rpm/servicing/ display will also include a GPS function. Seen on many Honda ATV's these factory built GPS units are a first in the industry. Expect them to show up on the next generation VFR and on the 09 Gold Wing.

DUDE YOU ARE A GENIUS!!!! START THE RUMOR AND THEY WILL BUILD IT?

[abs600fzrr]

i think the days of big bore thumpers are over. back in the mid 80's no one wanted middle class bikes, now with the new thumpers lighter stronger and snapier people dont somthing big and huge. i know my self i have ridding a 1984 Yamaha TT600 1 cylinder no decompression kick start. think was 300lbs dry i think my fiances day told me, i am 125lbs and threw it around like it wasnt nothing. i like the 650R, i always like the XR600, just not the L bikes.

honda cant let simple good fun alone anymore and has got this racers bug up its rear, forget the days of true off road designed bikes, no we just take a motorcross bike add lights, kick stand and new flywheel, call it somthing new and we got a winner.

it all has to do with the market, if we dont buy the bikes they wont change them, if we dont buy enought of the unchanged bike they stop making them.

[michhub]

Oh, Your Hired ?

I own an XRl but after a weekend in the mud I've decided its not a play bike and could surely use a diet....

MikeH

"...if Honda built a house I would buy it..."

Hell if there's no rumours lets make one up

XR 650 OP2WD spotted testing in Baja

Unnamed but reliable sources have spotted what appears to be the successor to Honda's venerable XR 650L dual sport machine undergoing testing in Baja. Some changes have been predictable bringing the machine in line with it's off only road brother XR 650R, liquid cooling, improved suspension and aluminum frame all topping the list.

What was unexpected was the OP designation for Oval Piston. First seen on Honda's ill fated GP bikes of the early 80's and later on in the limited production NR 750 that ended up mostly in the hands of wealthy collectors. This would be Honda's first mainstream push of the technology and may be in response to the high tech V-Twin Aprillia dirtbikes now appearing on the market. One unnamed Honda rep reported that the bike would rev to "at least 18 000 rpm and producing in excess of 80hp".

Taking a cue from Yamaha and KTM the new XR 650 OP/2WD will have an optional Ohlin's supplied 2 wheeled drive system. This extra grip was deemed necessary given the high horsepower and lightweight targets set by Honda engineers.

The new multi functional speedo/temp/fuel/rpm/servicing/ display will also include a GPS function. Seen on many Honda ATV's these factory built GPS units are a first in the industry. Expect them to show up on the next generation VFR and on the 09 Gold Wing.

[JoeBlow Kokomo]

I think it's pretty simple. the competition in motorized vehicles of ALL kinds is growing by leaps and bounds every year. Honda is huge but the margins are tighter than they've ever been. Korean cars and now motorcycles are coming up the pipeline FAST! Saw one of those Hyosung sport bikes on the street today, NICE looking bike, and reviewed pretty darn well. CHina is next. Both can undercut Japanese and American labor rates by a huge margin. The mini's flooding the market now are only the beginning.

Factor in the shrinking american dirt market and it's hardly a mystery why no one is putting R&D money into dirt bikes anymore. (Here)

They pulled their Indy car motors for cripes sake. Money is getting tight. How many 650R's do the sell compared to CBR's? Not even close I imagine.

[Rockjockey]

I think it has alot to do with the fact that they cannot sell you parts for something that does not break. In 1985 they finally got the mid sized XR350 right and I bought one then they quit making it because it did not break down. I used the bike for 6 years and traded it in on a new XR600 in 1991 for 500 less than I paid for it. Now IT has been discontinued. In 2000 I bought a new XR650R and a new XR400R and due to the terrain here and my riding style I chose to sell the 650R and beef up he 400 (more power). Now they have discontinued the 400 because it does not break down. I would not be a bit suprised if they quit making the 650R soon as it is too dependable. In my opinion the high revving machines produced today are designed to wear out quickly because if you push the slug up and down in a hole it is only going to make X number of cycles before it needs attention and if we do this at 14,000 rpm's it will require $ervice/part$ more often. If you want a new mid sized Honda 4 stroke you have two choices either buy a bike that is reported as having i$$ue$, and supports the manufacturer by parts sales and service, or making your own XRF440R like this (the way Honda should have).

[babbs]

Those "low mile" bikes on ebay might be low mile, But not that low. Remember the odometer rolls over at 99 miles. AND can be reset before that.

The case wear is a better indicator of use, but those are replaceable too.

Before I sell mine, I will replace the case covers, and reset the odometer to 1 mile and say it has one mile on it, someone might believe me.

[x400r]

on those used bike, keep an eye out for original tires, original chain and sprockets, and brake rotors for wear.

[eastreich]

FYI...

Our Honda rep for the are has informed my dealer that '07 is the last year for the 650R.

He also hinted that they are prototyping a replacement, but production has yet to be green lighted. He wouldn't say exactly what size it was, but efi was in the equation.

For Honda, they only dominate one form of off-road racing in North-America, or even world wide (if you don't count Trials) and that is BITD/SCORE. Yeah they can race 450x's and win, but everyone else can bring a 450 too. The 650 is designed to excel in that racing environment. You can ride a 450 or a 525 just as fast, but it isn't as comfortable or easy. And when you are on the bike for as long as they are, comfort and ease are big factors in winning. I'm sure that's one reason why Henge refuses to ride a 450. Childress is just too big to ride the 450. I can't see Honda not having a replacement. In fact, it would not surprise me at all in Campbell/Bell are not riding a 450 either. I'd bet that that motor is more like a 500 or 550 if they are prototyping a new motor.

[InternalCombustion]

[i cheated and copied over my thoughts on this topic, from an earlier post I made elsewhere ? Apologies.]

My mind (not my heart) is telling me it'll be a de-stroked brp, probably 550-575cc:

1. redlines at around 11k (the first model-year). EFI, giving more timing options and allowing them to save a lot of the low-end torque that the brp is famous for. Stock hp to the ground of maybe 48-50, first year.

2. a modified CRF frame, but maybe not! Maybe a computer-modded XR650R frame... "If it works..."

3. usd forks, not because the current brp's forks don't work, but because "everybody else has usd"

4. E-start, with maybe some new hoity-toity light-weight battery and starter to save weight. E-start alone is going to open the doors a lot wider for a lot of people that were scared away by "kick-starting a 650cc thumper..."

5. A de-tuned DS version is logical probability, allowing Honda to delete the production cost associated with the 650L, with a world-class replacement (performance wise).

6. And a SM version maybe the second year, allowing them to get into the SM market, which I think is going to be "the next big thing".

7. blah-blah-blah.

"Why 550 and not 650?" Good question. I may be totally off on my assumptions but seems to me that to get a lighter, more powerful (and equally reliable!!) Open-classer, they got to destroke the 650 and go higher revs. Personally I don't like the idea of high revs, given the reliability and maintenance headaches Honda has had with its motocross 250/450's. It just seems that getting a 650cc R to reliably rev higher and produce more power they would need to beef up the engine case, adding weight.

Maybe not. Lotsa you guys are running 680's and I am not hearing a lot of reliability issues coming out of that mod. Or, maybe oilplug is right [awesome post, Dude!], maybe Honda will pull a rabbit out of their collective techno-hat and give us a real advanced design, like an Oval Piston. They've certainly played the techno-game before, with the NR750 and in-line six GP bikes.

Actually, the engine will probably NOT have any commonality with the current brp, to allow stroking it later, maybe without losing too much rev potential. Also, a factory e-start will no doubt change the layout as well.

No question that the XR650R has been wildly successful in Baja / desert racing. No question Johnny Campbell and his team mates are masters of their trade (and my personal heroes. I've lost track of the Saturday nights I've stayed up late re-watching Dust To Glory.)

But will Honda's A and B teams still race with the 650R once a replacement comes out? Doubtful. Wouldn't do much for the new bike's PR. Will privateer teams race the 650R after a replacement comes out? Probably for years to come. Particularly if Honda blows the reliability of the replacement.

It is a true testimony to Honda's design genius that an essentially unchanged 7-year old bike is still without equal in the Baja 1000. But time marches on.

It is safe to expect that the XR650R replacement platform (and the L's in maybe 09) will be a very nice platform. But it won't be "The BRP". Still, we will come to accept it :-)

Today, we are riding a legend, and its still in production! Won the Baja 1000 seven years in a row. But Honda knows in their gut it won't last. Who knows what Honda is going to do? One thing for sure: they cannot stand still. They know they've got to raise the bar. And they will. Soon.

Like several of you said: "all the more reason to hang on to mine."

I got mine!

Ride safe.

[huntmaster]

FYI...

For Honda, they only dominate one form of off-road racing in North-America, or even world wide (if you don't count Trials) and that is BITD/SCORE.

Count trials if you like. They own Montesa, as used by Lampkin & crew... supply the engines and even sell them as Honda's in some markets!

[eastreich]

I do count trials. It is one of the most fun things I have ever had the chance to try on two wheels. And it was incredibly difficult! But it sure improved my general riding techniques. Now if I could only swing the better half into letting me bring another motorcycle home...

On a side note, the Montesa is the future for Honda. An ultra-lightweight 250cc 4-stk, faultless efi, proven in competition. I know that the future Honda off-road bikes will all soon be efi. Many of the couches for '07 are now efi (all but the basic Rancher 350, Recon's, and the TRX-R's).

The coolest part is the HRC case covers on Lampkin's and Fuji's works bikes...

[ThunderChicken]

they need to update that damn XR650L.....its just heavy and old.

Actually, that's the next Honda I'm buying if I can't find a clean Transalp. I had one in college and loved it.