06 YZ450 Front Wheel Push


25 replies to this topic
  • Crash 2006

Posted September 21, 2006 - 01:35 PM

#1

I recall someone saying that this can be corrected by readjusting the sag and front fork height? Can someone give me these measurments and any other sugestions you might have?

Thanks...

  • grayracer513

Posted September 21, 2006 - 01:42 PM

#2

You can't find that? :thumbsup:

Pull the forks up to the first scribed line (5-6 mm), set the race sag to 96-98 mm, and mount a Dunlop 952 or a Bridgestone M401 on the front.

It'sw important to have the correct springs for your weight, too. The stockers are good for riders weighing 170-190 pounds.

  • YZ426F Rider

Posted September 21, 2006 - 02:33 PM

#3

Those are good tires. I would also consider the Michelin S-12.

  • NYMXer

Posted September 21, 2006 - 02:57 PM

#4

Once set up like grayracer described, you'd be hard pressed to find a better turning open bike.

  • Crash 2006

Posted September 21, 2006 - 09:30 PM

#5

You can't find that? :lame:

Pull the forks up to the first scribed line (5-6 mm), set the race sag to 96-98 mm, and mount a Dunlop 952 or a Bridgestone M401 on the front.

It'sw important to have the correct springs for your weight, too. The stockers are good for riders weighing 170-190 pounds.


How can I find it when the search is disabled all the time due to traffic?

What spring do I need for a guy that weighs 195-215 pounds? What do you recommend? :thumbsup:

  • grayracer513

Posted September 21, 2006 - 10:04 PM

#6

It's working now, and it was working at 2:40 this afternoon.

http://www.racetech....angname=english

Use the fork spring calculator on the page, and then scroll down to the shock spring calculator.

  • stroker101

Posted September 22, 2006 - 03:29 AM

#7

what i did with my 06' YZ450F is installed the Applied Racing upper/lower 27mm clamp kit. this made a major improvement in steering...more confidence in the turns now :thumbsup:

  • Flynall

Posted September 22, 2006 - 04:05 AM

#8

Gray,

"Pull the forks up to the first scribed line (5-6 mm), set the race sag to 96-98 mm, and mount a Dunlop 952 or a Bridgestone M401 on the front."

Would these settings also be applicable to a YZ250f?

Thanks,

RH

  • DPW

Posted September 22, 2006 - 04:55 AM

#9

It's working now, and it was working at 2:40 this afternoon.

http://www.racetech....angname=english

Use the fork spring calculator on the page, and then scroll down to the shock spring calculator.


another calculator is here ...http://www.mx-tech.com/

  • grayracer513

Posted September 22, 2006 - 07:46 AM

#10

Gray,

"Pull the forks up to the first scribed line (5-6 mm), set the race sag to 96-98 mm, and mount a Dunlop 952 or a Bridgestone M401 on the front."

Would these settings also be applicable to a YZ250f?

Thanks,

RH

The forks and tire recommendations, yes. The sag I don't know about.

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  • grayracer513

Posted September 22, 2006 - 07:57 AM

#11

what i did with my 06' YZ450F is installed the Applied Racing upper/lower 27mm clamp kit. this made a major improvement in steering...more confidence in the turns now :thumbsup:

In Applied's own blind testing, they found that most riders preferred the 27 mm offset on the YZ250F, but on the '06 YZ450F, the 24 mm was the favorite.

The '06 450 doesn't have a problem with trail, which is the facet of steering geometry controlled by the clamp offset. It turns very willingly as is, but the head angle is a little too shallow. That's why it responds so well to pulling the fork up and decreasing sag; both will reduce the head angle. That's what Reed's bike had with the eccentric bearing races, and what Yamaha has done with the '07.

  • jgerdi

Posted September 22, 2006 - 09:43 AM

#12

What is the stock steering off set ?? I thought it was 24 and the ragazines said 27mm worked better. I know quit thinking. But what is the stock off set?

  • ben_suhard

Posted September 22, 2006 - 10:13 AM

#13

I recall someone saying that this can be corrected by readjusting the sag and front fork height? Can someone give me these measurments and any other sugestions you might have?
Thanks...

Don't forget to regularly let the air out of the forks with the bike on a stand.

  • grayracer513

Posted September 22, 2006 - 12:35 PM

#14

What is the stock steering off set ?? I thought it was 24 and the ragazines said 27mm worked better. I know quit thinking. But what is the stock off set?

The stock offset is 25mm.

All of the mags did not agree that the 27mm offset worked better, and I have never seen a report that said it worked better on a 450. The 250F, yes, but not the big bike. But then, there are some mags I simply don't waste my time with.

  • Reyndogg

Posted September 22, 2006 - 12:41 PM

#15

I didn't like the 952 front tire... i think i put 5hrs on it, now it sits in my garage lol I replaced it with a Michelin S12. I now have the MS3s and love them.

  • grayracer513

Posted September 22, 2006 - 12:44 PM

#16

I didn't like the 952 front tire... i think i put 5hrs on it, now it sits in my garage lol I replaced it with a Michelin S12. I now have the MS3s and love them.

Fairly soft soil in your neighborhood?

  • Reyndogg

Posted September 22, 2006 - 12:49 PM

#17

Fairly soft soil in your neighborhood?



yessir... and at the time it was often wet or muddy.

It did work well in medium/hard soil (ie trails i dont ride much, if at all) though.

  • grayracer513

Posted September 22, 2006 - 02:22 PM

#18

What I like about the 952 and the M401 is that they work well in a fairly wide range of soil types, although looking at the 952, I would call it more of a mediun to hard tire, just as you said. But I grant you that for deep, loose, soft stuff or mud, the S12 or a D773 is a much better choice. The problem that California riders are faced with in selecting tires that specialized is that almost anywhere we go outside of a race track, we find about 3 or 4 or more different soil types on the same ride. For some of them, no tire exists that really works.

  • cowboyona426

Posted September 23, 2006 - 11:03 AM

#19

In Applied's own blind testing, they found that most riders preferred the 27 mm offset on the YZ250F, but on the '06 YZ450F, the 24 mm was the favorite.

The '06 450 doesn't have a problem with trail, which is the facet of steering geometry controlled by the clamp offset. It turns very willingly as is, but the head angle is a little too shallow. That's why it responds so well to pulling the fork up and decreasing sag; both will reduce the head angle. That's what Reed's bike had with the eccentric bearing races, and what Yamaha has done with the '07.


So that being true, why does changing the offset (for some riders) seem to help the problem of the front end washing out? Power of suggestion maybe? I'm curious what your opinion is on this, because I'd really like to get the front on my 06 to stick better.

  • grayracer513

Posted September 23, 2006 - 08:45 PM

#20

Well, let's start with your front tire. What kind are you using? What kind of soil do you mostly run in there in...Washington? (weren't you in Idaho?)

Here's my opinion, and an opinion is what it is, educated or not. Changing the offset changes trail, and trail effects two things the most; stability at speed, and how easily the bike turns in when leaned. How changes to trail affect handling can be a little unpredictable. Take my '03. I put 22.5 mm clamps on it to make it turn in easier at low speed. It did that, but it did nothing to help the front end push, because the front end push wasn't being caused by insufficient trail in the first place. Furthermore, while increasing trail should have made the bike more stable at speed (which it did on level surfaces going straight), what happened was that the front end now wants to dig and bite at rutted sand instead of cutting through it, and the bars tend to bounce left or right when hitting bumps at an angle. So it turns easier going slow, but there was a compromise involved.

That's because, like the push, the reluctance to turn wasn't being caused by a trail problem. In that case, it was that the center of mass is too high, and spread out too far fore and aft. So, because that can't really be fixed short of re-engineering the bike, people start finding work-arounds like changing the head angle with linkage mods and pulling up the forks, and by changes in offset. The feedback you hear about these reflects varying degrees of satisfaction with the results. If the positive gains outweigh the downside in your particular situation, you like it.

MX bikes will always push to some extent, because they need a fairly shallow head angle to deal with rough surfaces at speed. Without that, the suspension wouldn't work as well, and the front wheel would want to tuck at the least provocation. Look at road racers, and you'll see somewhat steeper head angles. Flat track and speedway bikes are even steeper.

Motorcycle steering geometry is always a balancing act, and Yamaha has, IMO, done the best thing they could have possibly done to improve the situation. They moved as much weight as they could as close to the center of gravity as they could, and that makes the bike easier to pitch, roll, and, importantly, turn. That, in turn reduces the loads placed on the front tire as it tries to change the direction of the bike, and makes it less likely to slip.

If you have set up the bike the way that so many owners have found works, the adjustments I listed above, and your spring rates are right, then all that's left is to get the right tire and tweak the suspension settings until it works.

:thumbsup:





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