Help me decide: XR650R or CRF450X


40 replies to this topic
  • Kent Rathgeber

Posted September 21, 2006 - 08:37 AM

#21

For tight trails, mud, etc. the 450X would be much better for you, simply because of much less weight. I weigh about as much as you (give or take a few pounds) and ride my 450X in the mountains of Alberta and B.C. I can't think of a better bike (out of the crate) and priced right, for that purpose. I'm not sure what the licensing laws in Vermont are, but I have heard it's relatively easy to get a dual sport plate. The 2 things that swung me to the CRFX are 1) electric start 2) much lighter weight than a 650. Go with the CRFX, you'll be happy with it.

As for the maintenance, keep up on your oil and filter (air and oil) changes and you won't have problems.

  • wolfmangk

Posted September 21, 2006 - 03:11 PM

#22

I own a 450X and have ridden an XR600 (The air cooled one, I am assuming the 650 is liquid cooled). You guys are going to ****ing HATE me but the XR felt like an underpowered pig that refused to lift the front wheel. It had power, but it was night and day compared to my 450X.

The guy who had it couldn't climb the hills I could climb with ease on my X (Probably because my X was lighter and had a knobbier tire, and made twice the seat of your pants power). I would outpull his bike every time until we hit 5th, then it was all over after I topped out somewhere in the 80's, which is as fast as my bike is geared to go.

The suspension of the X also made going faster on trails, even long straight ones, easier for me than it was for him. Not even feeling the vibration from ruts and whatnot goes a long way to going faster, when you feel every little thing on another machine. As far as the maintenance goes, the manual calls for an oil change every 600 miles for noncompetition use in the X, which for all dirt riding, is a not a lot.

The air filter is a BITCH to get out on the X, it is the worst design in history. People complain about valves going out of spec, my valves are fine, I haven't had to shim mine since I got it new, and I have roughly 800 miles plus on it and a bunch of hours. I also have plenty of experience on long flat paved and unpaved roads with my bike, if you get the 450X run a full quart in the trans.

Some people have mentioned the trans locking up but that may be a myth. Because the 450X is a high strung machine you need to keep up on the oil changes and air cleaner maintenance. If dust gets sucked into your intake it won't just mess with the rings, but it will also get chewed up in the valves and you will have to reshim, and change out the valves and maybe even the head, or resurface them.

If you don't want a bike that makes scary power but is extremely functional, get the X. Also, if you do any desert riding or riding in the middle of nowhere, a kickstart is essential. I know the 600 I rode was electric start only, and I had to let the guy borrow the battery from my 450X, while I used the kickstarter on my bike.

You don't want your alternator to die and not charge the battery, take a spill, and be stuck in the desert or the woods or whatever, without a kickstarter. My 450 has been looped, thrown, and spun a few times and it still is kicking. There's nothing like doing 60 down the road then giving it gas and having it pull your arms out of their sockets.

I would like a bike that has the power of the X but the maintenance schedule of the XR, but one doesn't exist. All in all, the X is the best dirtbike I have ever owner bar none, and I have owned 10 in my 27 years.

  • Max Power

Posted September 21, 2006 - 06:10 PM

#23

I have a 1991 xr600r and its pretty much the only bike I have ever had, with the exception of some old two strokes.
After 4-5 years of learning/loving my pig, I have decided (with the permission of the wife) that in the spring
its time for a new ride.

As excited as I am to be able to finally get a new bike, I am now faced with a decision, that no matter how much I read
or think about it, I can't seem to make. I have narrowed it down to the 650r and the crf450x. I have wanted the 650r for
a long time, but this weekend had a chance to ride and talk to a crf guy, who pretty much insisted that with what I ride
I would need the capabilities of the crf setup.

Here is my scenario:
I am 24, 225lbs, 6'4", I live in Vermont and ride mostly in the woods. I find a lot of mud and ride some rough terrain,
I think that I have made my XR600 do things that it was really was not made to do.
One thing I'm not into is hitting huge jumps, don't get me wrong, I like catching some air or riding wheelies off water bars and such,
but you won't catch me jumping on a track.

I have done some poking around in the crf forum and seem to get that the consensuses is that the crf is a race bike and needs
constant attention to keep it from having engine trouble. This would discourage me 100% from buying a used crf, but I would buy a
used xr that I new had low miles and seemed to be in decent shape.....this might save me a lot of $$?

I also would like to plate the bike, and be able to do some dual sporting, but not for transportation but more to get from trail to trail.

Well, sorry for the long post, but I really cant make up my mind on this one, I would love to hear what any of you have to say.
I was thinking of posting this in the crf forum also to get some of their opinions.


X

Next question.

  • Ramcc4x4

Posted September 21, 2006 - 07:19 PM

#24

Even with the standard (uncorked) HRC baffle people are getting 49-50 hp from the 650. Add a real loud pipe and you can get 51! :thumbsup:
A well tuned stock 600R is 42-43. As noted, it's riding a 650R vs a 450 that the most noticeable difference and the extra torque defies even the 4-5 hp difference! I do like the WR450 though and at the risk of being flamed... even this long time Honda guy would get one before the 450X! The 07 looks awesome.


I had my XR650R on the dyno (with mods) and achieved 51.0 hp. I felt like I was flamed on this board because many people said the number was too high and not "real world".

I completely understand about torque and that's what I miss most about the XR650R - the WR450 will NEVER come close in that regard!

  • Max Power

Posted September 21, 2006 - 07:34 PM

#25

I had my XR650R on the dyno (with mods) and achieved 51.0 hp. I felt like I was flamed on this board because many people said the number was too high and not "real world".

I completely understand about torque and that's what I miss most about the XR650R - the WR450 will NEVER come close in that regard!


I will take that as a vote for the X then..... What was the question again?

  • scott cressman

Posted September 22, 2006 - 02:31 AM

#26

<The air filter is a BITCH to get out on the X, it is the worst design in history. People complain about valves going out of spec, my valves are fine, I haven't had to shim mine since I got it new, and I have roughly 800 miles plus on it and a bunch of hours. I also have plenty of experience on long flat paved and unpaved roads with my bike, if you get the 450X run a full quart in the trans>

I have never riddent the X and it sounds like a great bike. I am glad you like it.

I just wanted to point out 2 things.

1) 800 miles is nothing, that is one weekend's ride, hardly anything to judge a bike's reliability.

2) Obviously you are talking about an xr650L, a nice bike, but COMPLETEY different from the XR650R. The XR650R has enough torque to climb any hill the X will do.

Please note, I am not bad mouthing the X, just setting the record straight.

  • Mikie1

Posted September 22, 2006 - 05:47 AM

#27

The X's air filter design definitely takes some getting used to. There is a technique, that, once you get it, makes it not so bad. You can only come by that technique with some practice. Even then, you have to have your hand all over the filter to make sure it's seated properly in the airbox over a "lip", before you put the screw in.

But let's not get started on the design of the 650 air filter. Yeah, it's hella easy, but EVERYONE I know has had dust get through or around these things. :thumbsup:

X's are proving pretty reliable-- much more so than the 450R's-- when used in their intended environment. Many many examples with 5k+ miles before any major service. That's up there in XR reliability territory. My 650's valves were going at about 4K.

Bottom line is either bike will make you happy. For the type of riding you're doing, though, if it were my decision (and if I had to choose only one...) you'll have more fun on the X. If you don't do much maintenance on your bikes, the 650 will suit you better.

I'll take one of each, please ! :lame:

  • Butta

Posted September 22, 2006 - 06:17 AM

#28

Butta thats interesting - I run a CRF450R as well as a worked XR628 and seat of the pants tells me the CRF absolutley whips the XR in acceleration and feel.

Granted my XR628 is no XR650 but surely the feeling of lower revs and heavier bikes makes you feel like you're going slower?

At least that's how I feel when on my CRF which is like a gun shot with that FCR carby pumping gas down the throat. The CRF accelarates so much harder - like it's trying to twist the plant instead of move forward



And the same thing would be felt on my YZ450 compared to your air-head 628...I owned a 600R once, and it was lucky to be able to lift the front wheel. The 650??? different story. I'm not saying it's more powerful, I'm saying the hp numbers aren't EVERYTHING......take a big John Deere tractor, for instance. 100 hp tractor, let's say, and compare that to the standard factory full size diesel truck that puts out somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 hp.....is there a difference? you bet, because the torque value on the tractor that redlines at 1800 rpm (give or take) vs. the pickup that redlines at 3200+ rpms....which one has more "pull"? the tractor, of course.

That's how I pretty much described the 650R after the first ride, when I was so used to my snappy YZ "this thing is a TRACTOR!!"....... Different machines for different environments, but the 650R's hp numbers don't tell the whole story, that was my point...sorry for beating the dead horse.

  • huntmaster

Posted September 22, 2006 - 11:44 AM

#29

I run a CRF450R as well as a worked XR628 and seat of the pants tells me the CRF absolutley whips the XR in acceleration and feel.

I'm guessing the acceleration "shootout" was stopped at about 60-70 mph when the mx bike ran out of gearing? Comparing these bikes is proverbial "apples and oranges".

  • 2000 xr650r

Posted September 22, 2006 - 12:54 PM

#30

Good point about gearing. I love My ucorked 650r. I can just edge out a nice yz426f by several bike lengths in a drag 0-80mph and i still have 20mph left. I should smoke him worse with the same gearing as him. I would assume a yz426f is faster than a 450x in stock form and them being equal after the 450x was uncorked. Anyone disagree? And disregard who ever posted about the xr600. Why did you even post? The question was xr650r or CRF450X. If you dual sport at all get the 650r. If you want reliabilty and a bit more acceleration xr650r. Tight stuff crf450x.

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  • 2000 xr650r

Posted September 22, 2006 - 02:03 PM

#31

You guys are going to ****ing HATE me but the XR felt like an underpowered pig that refused to lift the front wheel.


My lifts the front just fine. There must be something wrong with the bike or the rider. Here is a power wheelie in 4th gear starting ar 50mph.
http://s84.photobuck...=MVC-001W-1.flv

And heres the yz426f i talked about in the previous post.
http://s84.photobuck...nt=MVC-001W.flv

  • wolfmangk

Posted September 23, 2006 - 04:58 PM

#32

<The air filter is a BITCH to get out on the X, it is the worst design in history. People complain about valves going out of spec, my valves are fine, I haven't had to shim mine since I got it new, and I have roughly 800 miles plus on it and a bunch of hours. I also have plenty of experience on long flat paved and unpaved roads with my bike, if you get the 450X run a full quart in the trans>

I have never riddent the X and it sounds like a great bike. I am glad you like it.

I just wanted to point out 2 things.

1) 800 miles is nothing, that is one weekend's ride, hardly anything to judge a bike's reliability.


800 miles is nothing? For an all-dirt motorcycle with a formula-1 engine, 800 miles is a bunch. For a streetbike, it's nothing. Those aren't 800 miles of fire trails, it's Lucifers Valley desert riding, hillclimbs, rock crawls, in some of the roughest riding in California. The bike has been looped, thrown end over end in the air several times, ghost ridden and everything in between, (Mostly by friends) and it still comes back for more. I've never owned a dirtbike more stable and more torquey as this one.

2) Obviously you are talking about an xr650L, a nice bike, but COMPLETEY different from the XR650R. The XR650R has enough torque to climb any hill the X will do.

Please note, I am not bad mouthing the X, just setting the record straight.


The bike I rode was a 6-something dirtbike that someone put a baja kit on. (I could be wrong but it seemed like it to me) I will give you-maybe something was wrong with the bike. But in 5th gear if I gas my 450 the front end comes up. I say, ride both, and figure out which one fits you better. I adore the X, but to be honest, I would also like an XR/CRF650R.

  • DGA

Posted September 23, 2006 - 05:36 PM

#33

Everyone keeps sayin that the 650r isnt good for tight trails and such. I dont know about everyone else but I find the big XR is great everywhere with little modification. I ride with about 8 buddies and we are all roughly the same skill level we all race in the intermediate class at the local tracks. 80-90% of the time I am faster through the tight stuff and trails and Im competing against a slew of MX and trail bikes 2 of which are a 06 WR450 and an 05 crf450x. I beat all the 250 2 strokes. I guess if you got the strength and the nuts the 650r can do it all. Im not too far from a stock bike yet. I know once I get a 680 kit with high comp piston/cam/bigger valves Im going to really kill everyone. Look at how fast scott summers was in the woods. I should strap on a helmet cam and show you just how nimble the pig can be. I love my bike and wouldnt trade it for anything. I think the only bike I would even consider buying to go next to my 650r and cr500 would be a Husaberg 650 it got just as much nuts at the 650r and weighs as much as a crf450. you cant beat the 650r as far as reliability is concerned.

  • Mudshark

Posted September 23, 2006 - 06:25 PM

#34

Everyone keeps sayin that the 650r isnt good for tight trails and such.


Yeah... it's a joke. Everyone makes it sound like the pig can only go straight
and falls over in turns and has no ability to handle real rough stuff.
I admit it's harder work in the tight stuff.... but it eats tight trails, if you can
ride it. :p
So rather than saying the pig is no good at woods stuff, rather say, I can't
ride one in the woods.... it's too much bike for me :thumbsup:

Hey, I would LOVE to have one of each :lame: but I would never swap
my pig for a X.

  • Max Power

Posted September 23, 2006 - 07:33 PM

#35

Everyone keeps sayin that the 650r isnt good for tight trails and such.


Oh...... it's good, Just more work then an X in the tight stuff.

Posted Image

  • frankstr

Posted September 23, 2006 - 08:03 PM

#36

Hey, Maxpower...nice pic..... :thumbsup:

  • captb

Posted September 24, 2006 - 08:18 AM

#37

I guess some of you got spoiled with lightweight bikes, I grew up riding CL350 and CL450 Honda's off road, one of my friends rode a modified 750 Honda Four with preston petty fenders and a huge Barum knobbie (the trench digger), we still stayed with the riders on 360 yamaha Enduros.

  • Blade Man

Posted September 24, 2006 - 10:40 AM

#38

Wow. Lots of great info here. I am planing on picking up a new 06 XR650 R Later this week. I had the same questions about the x and R But have decided on the R for power and speed reasons when I get to the open streches.Would like E start but too bad. I am Short and only weigh 155# so I was thinking of the X for a long time. I had a 628 R for a while and realy liked it and the reliability so R it is. Maybee I will go get it tomorrow after noon !!! :thumbsup: :lame: :p

  • scott cressman

Posted September 24, 2006 - 02:26 PM

#39

<<The bike I rode was a 6-something dirtbike that someone put a baja kit on. (I could be wrong but it seemed like it to me) I will give you-maybe something was wrong with the bike. But in 5th gear if I gas my 450 the front end comes up. I say, ride both, and figure out which one fits you better. I adore the X, but to be honest, I would also like an XR/CRF650R.>>

You mentioned in your first post that the XR you rode was Air cooled, that would be the XR650L since the R is water cooled.

As far as pulling the front end up, My R will pull the front in 1st -4th with 95MPH gearing. With 110MPH gearing, only 1st-3rd. With 80 MPH gearing that an X runs, I am sure it would pull it in 5th too.

I stand by the statement that 800 miles in not enough to judge reliability. My R only has about 4000 miles on it but I still consider it new. 90% of that is off road. This includes motocross tracks, trails, tight trails, etc. I cannot say its been looped or thrown end over end, because I try not to crash, it is faster that way..LOL :thumbsup:


__________________

  • Mudshark

Posted September 24, 2006 - 02:44 PM

#40

I guess some of you got spoiled with lightweight bikes, I grew up riding CL350 and CL450 Honda's off road, one of my friends rode a modified 750 Honda Four with Preston petty fenders and a huge Barum knobbie


Preston Petty now theres a name / brand I've not seen in a while :lame:
I remember those 360 Yamaha's beautiful bikes :thumbsup:





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