what is the worst that could happen? (sand and spinning stuff)


14 replies to this topic
  • FlameDog

Posted September 13, 2006 - 07:51 PM

#1

hey gang,

i was just throwin my JD needle into my 06 wr 450, (thanks to the speedy delivery of TT)

when i took my old needle out, i noticed that about half way down the shaft was pitted all to crap, like it was sand blasted,

this was sand from the oragon dune last month, some got past the air cleaner,

when i dropped the carb access plug i noticed sand in the bottom of the plug,

how and where did all this sand come from and how did it get in there?

my other Q is my boiler still does not smoke, the oil is still always clean, after a 100 miles or so i drop the oil, every 300 or so i do a full filter/oil change

i have gone a few hundred miles or so since the dunes

i don't ring this thing out, but i ride it hard and fun at a moderate pace,

should i be lookin at rippin this thing down now? or in a month or two?
and if so what damage am i lookin at? what stuff should i be thinkin about changing? valves,piston, barrel,crank bearings? what else?

thanx for any replies,

i'm kinda new to the 4 stroke stuff

  • WheelsUp

Posted September 13, 2006 - 09:42 PM

#2

Sand is insidious... it gets everywhere. The best your filtration can do is limit it's damage. Keep the bike washed clean and clean the chain regularly (not with a pressure washer), and change the oil frequently.

The middle of the needle WAS sandblasted... that is the area that is exposed to the throttle bore.

Expect earlier than normal failure of wheel and swingarm bearings.

  • FlameDog

Posted September 13, 2006 - 10:19 PM

#3

i can handle a few swing arm bearings, i am wondering about the piston,valves and the lack of material that used to be there :thumbsup:

  • NavyNuke

Posted September 13, 2006 - 10:52 PM

#4

check valve clearence's more often. if they get really bad, and you decide to change valves, convert to stainless valves, they last longer, and lap the valve seats in the head really well. Also change the oil a bit more, just in case you get some in there, main journal bearings and cam bearings REALLY don't like sand.

  • waynus

Posted September 14, 2006 - 12:33 PM

#5

Sand seems a bit coarser than dust to me, Iwould have thought that sand would have been easier to keep out of the motor. Must be getting past the air filter somehow. Do you grease the lip?

All you can do now is keep a check on things such as oil usage and valves and just keep riding it. Use a good tacky filter oil and dunk and squeeze the excess oil out

Wayne

  • FlameDog

Posted September 14, 2006 - 05:18 PM

#6

i talked to my yammie guy today, he assures me that i did chew some sand and that is a bad thing, he knows i change my oil lots, he said that the side walls are going to have wear on them now, but, TFB! :applause:
he figures that if i keep on it with the oil changes, and watch for any changes in performance (coughin' oil) that it should be ok until i can take my M/T beer cans in for the 488 kit1 lol :applause:

when i got back from the dunes there was a section on the gasket surface that allowed the sand through, the jury is still out as to why that happened, but i have ordered the yz bracket and filter cage, i am not comfortable with the hooky strap that holds my filter on,
thanx for your thoughts on this :thumbsup:

  • BRM

Posted September 14, 2006 - 06:25 PM

#7

It may pay to check the seating of the air boot onto the airbox as sometimes this can come apart. Nothing a good dose of silicone can't fix though.

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  • WheelsUp

Posted September 14, 2006 - 06:36 PM

#8

Sand seems a bit coarser than dust to me, Iwould have thought that sand would have been easier to keep out of the motor.

Dust may pass harmlessly through, while sand is extremely abrasive. Sand can also be extremely fine, and both sand and silt get into everything.

  • tweek

Posted September 14, 2006 - 07:53 PM

#9

Do you use grease between the airfilter and the airbox?

  • FlameDog

Posted September 14, 2006 - 10:47 PM

#10

yup, i do

i found out a buddy of mine has a scope that can fit down the sparkplug hole!

god i love mechanics! :thumbsup:
can't wait to see what it looks like.
should i try and post pics?
anyone wanna put bets as to what extent the sand has worn the walls?
this bike had about a 1000k when i went to the dunes, it has 1600 on it now

i will check the boot to airbox when i do the scope thang,

so who thinks i gotta do a rebuild now?

who thinks i have minor damage that can wait for a while?

who thinks i have no damage?

i will see my buddy tommarrie, (friday) and i will post the results friday night

till then PLACE YOUR BETS! :applause:
EITHER WAY ITS ALL GOOD!

chow for now, falker,,,out lol

  • NavyNuke

Posted September 14, 2006 - 11:11 PM

#11

if you don't notice it burning oil, or having lost power, ride the poo out of it till it you notice power loss or oil burning.

But if you hear some weird inbalance/vibration that is really really odd, stop before parts come out of the engine at speed.

Seen a couple of kawi's do that

  • BRM

Posted September 15, 2006 - 03:38 PM

#12

If like you say your needle has been sand blasted, I would think that your up for some topend rebuild. If anything has got past the rings which i doubt maybe some new bearings. Thats my call. They say it only takes a tea spoon of dirt to stuff a V8 deisel truck engine so how much it takes to destroy a 450cc bike engine should be minimal.

  • farkawi

Posted September 15, 2006 - 07:32 PM

#13

I recently read a rap from the makers of the Red bikes on silica (sand) and how it fuses itself on the valve seats, thus accelerating wear of the coating on your titanium valves as they rotate in the seats under normal operation. They say that you should keep an eye on valve lash for rapidly closing measurements from silica contamination. Should the valves sink in the seats dramatically; then rip that mutha apart and have the seats cut and park new valves in there. Cutting the seats is apparently the only way to get rid of silica contamination short of replacing the seats or head both of which are costly options. I know that greasing the airfilter lip makes a nasty cleanup chore at filter service time; but it works..I've been doing it for over 30 years.

  • NavyNuke

Posted September 15, 2006 - 08:40 PM

#14

I I know that greasing the airfilter lip makes a nasty cleanup chore at filter service time; but it works..I've been doing it for over 30 years.

:thumbsup: he's right, havn't had the history, but it does a good job of keeping sand out of the carb on my WR, however not so good at keeping water out of the carb when I went swimming with it.

  • Beejay

Posted September 18, 2006 - 05:08 PM

#15

Slight wear at present, no rebuild needed yet..........you have already done about 600km after the sand have'nt you?




 
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