Front Brake Upgrades


24 replies to this topic
  • almostinvincible119

Posted September 10, 2006 - 06:00 PM

#1

I've gotten to the point where my front brake isn't cutting it pushing into corners. So I was wondering, between the oversized rotor kits or the wave rotors, which is more efficent. Also, from personal experience from you guys, what do you perfer. What kind did you use and was it a "fit it and forget it" part?

  • grayracer513

Posted September 10, 2006 - 07:42 PM

#2

On '05 and earlier models, using a CRF master cylinder will improve braking power with the stock rotor.

  • John407

Posted September 10, 2006 - 07:43 PM

#3

I'm running a 280mm EBC on my '03 450, I don't have any experience with the wave type. The 280mm does help, it's a one finger operation now and I think it's reduces arm pump as well.

I did have a little trouble with caliper alignment, but I don't know if I can blame the brake or crash damage.

It does seem more prone to damage, I couldn't use my disc guard and of course it is bigger. No problems yet.

  • aford541

Posted September 10, 2006 - 07:59 PM

#4

I'm running a 280mm EBC on my '03 450, I don't have any experience with the wave type. The 280mm does help, it's a one finger operation now and I think it's reduces arm pump as well.

I did have a little trouble with caliper alignment, but I don't know if I can blame the brake or crash damage.

It does seem more prone to damage, I couldn't use my disc guard and of course it is bigger. No problems yet.


I had the 280mm ebc for the last 2 years this year I switched to the galfer wave rotor and really like it, braking performance is better and its smaller and lighter.

  • almostinvincible119

Posted September 11, 2006 - 04:18 PM

#5

Gray, would the 07 crf master cylinder bolt up to the 06 450 brakes? And if it would, would that improve the stopping power by "20%" as Honda claims using the super trick front brake lever? I know that those are all projections, but I am just asking a "what if" question. Maybe I can find someone who will let me gut their 07 crf for a time out on the track! Also guys, thats for the input, I was thinking about going with the 280mm EBC rotor but I read in MXA that it needed alot of attention, but my interests were pointed to the Galfer wave, since its solid and not oversized so it doesn't need the oversize bracket! Thanks everyone

  • enduro4231

Posted September 11, 2006 - 04:23 PM

#6

Are you sure you don't just need to bleed your brakes, or possibly something spilled on your pads/rotor? Time for new pads?

I ask because on all the MX bikes I've ridden, I've never had a complaint about the front brakes not having enough power. There's always enough to lock up the front wheel.

  • almostinvincible119

Posted September 11, 2006 - 05:54 PM

#7

Are you sure you don't just need to bleed your brakes, or possibly something spilled on your pads/rotor? Time for new pads?

I ask because on all the MX bikes I've ridden, I've never had a complaint about the front brakes not having enough power. There's always enough to lock up the front wheel.


It has nothing to do with bleeding the brakes or locking up the front wheel. The one thing that I dont want is to lock up the front wheel. Ive bled the brakes 4 times this past weekend and nothing helped. But I need to push corner speed more, and to come in deeper and faster and apply brakes later and let off earlier is my goal. Locking up the front wheel is for freestylers, not racers, all that does is make your front wheel dig, twist and highside.

  • grayracer513

Posted September 11, 2006 - 06:21 PM

#8

Gray, would the 07 crf master cylinder bolt up to the 06 450 brakes? And if it would, would that improve the stopping power by "20%" as Honda claims using the super trick front brake lever?

I'm not familiar with the '07 Honda setup, but what you need to know is:

Master/slave cylinder setups are just like levers, and a bigger diameter master cylinder is like a longer handle. You get more leverage, but you have to move it farther.

Is the leverage in the lever itself greater or less?

Does the outlet port match up with your line?

  • almostinvincible119

Posted September 11, 2006 - 06:32 PM

#9

Im sure that it would, doesnt the big 4 all use the same brakes? Maybe not, I really dont know. But I was talking to my dad about it, and he said something about the bigger rotor having more leverage, and he also brought up another good point...A long lever or bigger disc would cause the front wheel to lock up easier, but the wave would provide more surface area for the pads to grab on. Also, Im not sure that I would be able to feel this on the ground or in the air, but the bigger disc is more spun weight, which may cause the front end of the bike to act differently, which you could counteract with suspension set up. But, maybe the stainless line is what Im looking for, I want a more positive feel without the spongeyness and more effective braking.

  • grayracer513

Posted September 11, 2006 - 06:39 PM

#10

Your dad is right about the larger rotor. The larger it is, the more stopping power it has. Simple leverage again.

He's a little off the mark on the wave rotors, though. The wavy shape means that less than the entire brake pad will be in contact with the rotor. The advantage they have is in the fact that they clear themselves of foreign material (mud) much better.

Compared to stock, especially an older stock line, the braided steel lines are much less springy, and give a more solid feel. It's quite noticeable.

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  • Budlite

Posted September 11, 2006 - 07:01 PM

#11

Based off of what you say you are looking for, the EBC oversized should fill the bill. If not, try the Honda master cylinder. Borrow one from a fried to test if you can. Over the past 5 years or so, we've run 4 of the EBC's, 2 on Hondas and 2 on Yamahas. The improvement was noticeable on all the bikes.

  • Ga426owner

Posted September 12, 2006 - 06:40 AM

#12

I have found the stock master cylinder works very very well with a Braking oversized Wave rotor kit (includes new pads) and a Fastline or Galfer SS Braided front brakeline CR Style and Motel 600 Brakefluid. On my 03 this is my setup and they are the best brakes I have ever used

  • Riley Racing

Posted October 20, 2006 - 11:33 AM

#13

With your ebc rotor is it a solid mount or a floating? Im looking for a 280mm with a solid mount

  • hi everybody

Posted October 20, 2006 - 12:22 PM

#14

Whats the difference between floating and solid mount rotors? I mean performance wise, I know that solids are one piece and floating aren't. Like what effect does the floating rotor have thats different than the solid?

  • grayracer513

Posted October 20, 2006 - 12:27 PM

#15

Floating rotors stay flatter when heated than one piece rotors do. It's less of an issue on the rear, because the rear handles less of the braking load, so it doesn't get as hot.

  • hi everybody

Posted October 20, 2006 - 12:41 PM

#16

oh..makes sense. thanks!

  • RCannon

Posted October 20, 2006 - 03:05 PM

#17

[quote name='almostinvincible119']Gray, would the 07 crf master cylinder bolt up to the 06 450 brakes? And if it would, would that improve the stopping power by "20%" as Honda claims using the super trick front brake lever? I know that those are all projections, but I am just asking a "what if" question.


I am not even fit to wash Grey's bike after a hard days riding...however, I did learn a bit about the mastercylinders. I owned a 97 yz 250 and the brakes on it were abotu 1/2 of stock 06 Yamaha brakes. I bought several m/c's over the years to try and fix them.Fred Flintsone could do stoppies in his car compared to them.

The Honda m/c has the hose attachment on the backside of the m/c. It will bolt right on a yamaha without any problems. Use the stock line of you go this route. The aftermarket lines (especially galfer) have weak fittings. The honda m/c sets everything up perfectly to shear off the upper brake line fittings. Galfer fittings break like glass.

The newer yamaha m/c, made by Nissin, is what we can talk about now. These usually have a "11" somewhere on them. They are identical to the honda in all ways except line attachment. You can buy a honda master cylinder rebuild kit and upgrade the yamaha unit. I remember it costing 20 or so. The seals are the same. Order piece number " 9" from the CR 250 The other bikes and years may be the same, but I know this one will fit.
http://oem.thumperta...ercylinder.aspx

The piece that the spring sets on is longer in the honda's than the yamaha's and shaped differently. It increased the power vs the stock Yamaha stuff. I dont know why it did, but it was a decent difference. The lever also felt more firm. I would guess my power difference from the internal m/c parts to be + 10%.


Notice also that the honda lever pushes against the piston in the m/c differently than our yamaha's do. In most ways the yamaha set up is closer to the 07 honda's than the 06. I THINK we are allready getting better power from the lever. I dont think the new style Honda lever is going to change things much.

Before I spent a ton on Honda m/c's I would order the Brembo unit from the ktm. 06 or 07. I have no idea if it will fit, but I think it will. I believe this would be an easy way to ge t1 finger brake power.

  • KJ790

Posted October 20, 2006 - 06:10 PM

#18

Your dad is right about the larger rotor. The larger it is, the more stopping power it has. Simple leverage again.

He's a little off the mark on the wave rotors, though. The wavy shape means that less than the entire brake pad will be in contact with the rotor. The advantage they have is in the fact that they clear themselves of foreign material (mud) much better.

Compared to stock, especially an older stock line, the braided steel lines are much less springy, and give a more solid feel. It's quite noticeable.


The fact that the rotor will not be in contact with the entire brake pad doesn't make a difference. Frictional force does not depend on surface area. A wave rotor is supposed to disipate heat better than a conventional rotor. If you are looking for more power, I would suggest an oversize rotor personally.

  • aedwards07

Posted October 20, 2006 - 06:53 PM

#19

I have a oversized Braking brand front rotor kit.It came with the oversized wave rotor,caliper reloacting bracket,and a set of brake pads.Besides checking the pads to see if they are worn it is a set and forget about item.Definally more stopping power and it isnt HUGE like some of the other rotors that hit rocks like crazy.

  • grayracer513

Posted October 20, 2006 - 09:57 PM

#20

The fact that the rotor will not be in contact with the entire brake pad doesn't make a difference. Frictional force does not depend on surface area. A wave rotor is supposed to disipate heat better than a conventional rotor. If you are looking for more power, I would suggest an oversize rotor personally.

The wave shape offers no advantage in terms of cooling because it does not expose any more material to the cooling air to improve radiation, nor does it do anything to improve conduction to the hub. The purpose is, as I said, to clear foreign material from the brake. The inner and outer edges do this as they pass between the pads.

If you think that the contact area is not important, I think you should try grinding your brake pads to half their current size, and see how well that works.





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