Leaded gas???


24 replies to this topic
  • arnie230

Posted August 31, 2006 - 05:29 PM

#1

Will leaded gas hurt my '06 YZ450? There is a place nearby that has VP gas available by the pump. They tell me it is 108 octane leaded gas and I used it with good success in my CR250. Thanks for the help

  • crf-f crf-r trx cbr

Posted August 31, 2006 - 06:18 PM

#2

it will melt your parts in the carb :thumbsup:

  • Wyatt

Posted August 31, 2006 - 07:01 PM

#3

it will melt your parts in the carb



Where do you get that information? Not from experience I am sure.

I have used leaded race fuel in all of my YZF's since '01.

Zero carb problems. Zero problems at all. The bikes run well and the fuel quality is good and most importantly it is consistent.

I have a jet ski that requires high octane fuel, so I always kept the stuff on hand. I got into the habit of running it and I will continue to do so. It offers no real performance gain, but assures me that I have quality fuel in my bike. The same cannot always be said fo what comes out of the ground at your local 7-11.

I have always been of the belief that the lead in the fuel acts as a lubricant as well. I have clocked hundreds of hours on these bikes running leaded race fuel. Trust me.....it is safe.

As a matter of fact, I have a high pressure sprayer that I use maybe once or twice a year. I actually burn race fuel in it when I use it. The reason is that when I am done and put it back up to sit, the race fuel evaporates from the carb clean and leaves no residue. Set the same unit up with pump gas in the carb and and you'll have to clean the varnish from the carb and jets for it to run right again several months down the line.

  • GreenKLX

Posted August 31, 2006 - 07:33 PM

#4

As a matter of fact, I have a high pressure sprayer that I use maybe once or twice a year. I actually burn race fuel in it when I use it. The reason is that when I am done and put it back up to sit, the race fuel evaporates from the carb clean and leaves no residue. Set the same unit up with pump gas in the carb and and you'll have to clean the varnish from the carb and jets for it to run right again several months down the line.


Is the same true for your bike? Have you noticed this fuel to gum up the FCR less than pump gas?

  • yzernie

Posted August 31, 2006 - 07:51 PM

#5

it will melt your parts in the carb :thumbsup:

Another misinformed opinion. VP-U4 needs to be drained out but VP fuels like what he is talking about are fine. I, like Wyatt, have used leaded fuels both straight and mixed 50/50 in my YZ-F's since they first came out at the end of 97. I did not experience any fuel related problems...or for that matter any other problems.

  • arnie230

Posted September 01, 2006 - 01:10 AM

#6

I didnt think there should be an issue. Lead acted as a lubricant back when they still sold leaded commercial fuel. I had an old Chevelle SS and the concern was that the valves and seats would be affected with unleaded fuel.
I am gonna go ahead and use it as I had just bought 2 gallons at $7.50 a gallon for CR but I havent mixed it yet.

  • BergArabia

Posted September 01, 2006 - 01:43 AM

#7

Yeah as far as I have heard, Leaded petrol is great for cars and bikes. But bad for catalytic converters and for kids health. I wish they still sold it here. We haven't been able to buy it here for over 2 years..

  • flintlock28

Posted September 01, 2006 - 02:33 AM

#8

Just use standard 91 octane pump gas, and save your money on tires......
why with today's inflated gas prices, people want to use exotic fuels on stock engines to gain maybe 1/3 of a horsepower is beyond me. The same answer was given by Motocross Action Magazine. Now if the engine is modified, than that can be a different ballgame.

  • Daffy Duck

Posted September 01, 2006 - 02:39 AM

#9

But do you get any more power from a higher octane petrol?
I thought it just reduces chances of knocking and engine damage from preignition on high compression engines..

  • mxracer206

Posted September 01, 2006 - 04:34 AM

#10

One reason for using race fuel is not only for the octane but to get a leaded fuel. Some of the Honda guys run leaded fuel to help with the valve failures on some models. I beleive that 91 octane is the most readily available fuel in most areas and will run fine in stock motors but is at the lower end of the octane requirements for most bikes. Bottom line is run what works for you, race fuel is more consistent and can be bought in leaded, oxygenated etc. and you may feel a small power increase. Do you need it for a stocker? Probably not but try it and see if you like it.

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  • Wyatt

Posted September 01, 2006 - 05:41 AM

#11

Like I said before....Is it needed? No.

Is it of higher quality and more consistent than buying pump gas....yeah.

I remember when my brother was in college, he worked at a gas station for a short time. He told me that when the tanker came to unload the fuel, he would leave empty. He would unload all that was ordered. If he filled the unleaded tank up, the rest of the unleaded would just be poured into the super tank.

When you buy super is that what you always get??

  • Ga426owner

Posted September 01, 2006 - 07:17 AM

#12

ok my 2 cents.......
yes you can use 108....but it is not designed for a 4 stroke motorcycle....I too have experimented using it too....and all the research done will tell you that this will cause the seals in your carb to degredate over time....I use race fuel designed for my 4 stroke...VPU4 and and once tried VP MRPPRO4 2 fuels designed for the 4 stroke......geez this stuff is expensive....and yes you must drain it after each use...most riders will never need this gas anyway .... :thumbsup:

  • Wyatt

Posted September 01, 2006 - 07:24 AM

#13

I have had it in the carb non stop for 3 years with no ill effects.

I think that passes the test.

In the Jet Ski carb it has been there for going on ten years.

  • grayracer513

Posted September 01, 2006 - 08:33 AM

#14

Leaded fuel is NOT of a higher quality or more consistent than pump fuel, but commercial racing fuels like VP very certainly are.

There is little or no advantage to lead, in and of itself, and there are some disadvantages. And YZF valves don't really need the protection, which is of arguable value, anyway.

Neither leaded or high octane fuels will provide more power. Tetra ethyl lead is a fairly inert compound in terms of combustion, and octane number refers only to the resistance to compressive detonation. Neither has anything to do with the energy available in any fuel.

Race fuel generally does produce more power because it is chemically superior as a fuel. The blend is different, and it simply produces more pressure as it burns in an engine. I say "generally" because racing fuels are blended to be specific for different kinds of engines. VP Red won't work well in a 4-stroke motorcycle engine because the vaporization rate is too slow; it's blended for big, carbureted V8's with a foot of hot intake manifold between the carb and the cylinder. Your 450 ain't like that.

As to eating carb parts, there is actually something to that. Some race fuels, like VP U4, require draining the carb when not in use. If not stored in an airtight container, some of the components will evaporate, and leave a gummy gel in the carb. That's not "eating" anything, but it's a mess.

When you have a carb that's been in use for a couple of years or more on only pump gas, the rubber in the O-rings can soak up certain of the fuel components, and these essentially become a part of the rubber. If you either let the carb sit dry for 2-3 months or substitute a fuel that does not contain what ever it was that the rubber absorbed, the absorbed solvents will move back out of the rubber, and it will shrink or possibly crack. This gets misinterpreted as the fuel destroying the rubber, which is not quite what really happens.

  • x2stroker

Posted September 01, 2006 - 10:17 AM

#15

Damn Grayracer! Is there anything you don't know? :applause:

Maybe you can figure out my wife. :thumbsup:

  • grayracer513

Posted September 01, 2006 - 02:16 PM

#16

Damn Grayracer! Is there anything you don't know? :applause:

Yes, plenty. But I don't say much about the stuff I don't know because it makes me look like I don't know what I'm talking about when I do that.

Maybe you can figure out my wife. :thumbsup:

As soon as I figure out mine, I'll let you know what to look for. 20 years so far, and very few clues. :applause:

  • ericyzf4

Posted September 02, 2006 - 04:48 AM

#17

Read your owners manual. Leaded was fine for my older, '99 YZ400F, even said leaded or un-leaded in the manual, but my '06 450 manual says leaded fuel can cause vavle damage.

  • Vibeguy

Posted September 02, 2006 - 02:09 PM

#18

There was a guy at the Chehalis vintage MX race selling a pure TEL additive in quart bottles. It is a new product that can raise the octane rating of pump gas by adding lead to it. There was a formula on the back of the bottle that told you how much to add to a certain octane pump gas to raise the octane so many points. Sorry I can't remember the name.

It is being marketed as an alternative to buying expensive race gas. Most of the vintage 2 stroke motors have the compression bumped up to help the low end throttle response, yes this was right before reed valves caught on.

He did say that it would not raise your hp one bit but that it would prevent detonation in high compression engines.

In aircraft engines leaded fuels were needed to lubricate valve guides and stems. Even the most common av fuel, 100 LL (low lead) contains more than twice the amount of TEL that auto fuels do. It is my understanding that the modern material used in valves and guides do not require lead for lubrication.

Sooooooo if you are not running a pumped up motor save your race gas money, you'll need it to fill your truck so you can at least get to the races these days!

  • RCannon

Posted September 02, 2006 - 05:50 PM

#19

Some of the newer stations monitor this quite closely. I watched a station owner order a higher octane fuel the other day to bring the mid grade up to snuff. According to his computer, octane was 2 points too low.

I admit the stuff may not always be great. Can you imagine the liability if the gas was bad enough to damage engines??? Even a marginal station can sell 5,000 gallons per day.....

  • grayracer513

Posted September 02, 2006 - 06:09 PM

#20

There was a guy at the Chehalis vintage MX race selling a pure TEL additive in quart bottles. It is a new product that can raise the octane rating of pump gas by adding lead to it. There was a formula on the back of the bottle that told you how much to add to a certain octane pump gas to raise the octane so many points. Sorry I can't remember the name.

He did say that it would not raise your hp one bit but that it would prevent detonation in high compression engines.

In the days when you could still buy leaded regular, but not leaded premium, or fuels higher than 91-92, we used to mix our gas 75-80% unleaded pump premium and 20-25% leaded regular. The unleaded premium was a very high grade gasoline, as far as pump fuels went, in order to get to 91 octane with no lead. The leaded regular was a low grade gas, but was loaded with lead, so that adding it into the premium would take your fuel up to around 100 octane, and your pre-'71 muscle car could run it without pinging.





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