Engine Oil


29 replies to this topic
  • Warrior1053

Posted August 06, 2006 - 06:13 PM

#1

The manual states to use 40 weight "SG" oil. If one looks at the specs for engine oils, they are all different..eg...SM, SL, ect. The oil at the shops like MAXIMA and so on have friction modifiers and "tri-metal" types of additives, but since the Yamaha's share the trans and top end, if feel they shouldn't be used. So, what is the recommended stuff?

  • grayracer513

Posted August 06, 2006 - 06:27 PM

#2

SG is an obsolete grade. If you listen to the API, each subsequent grade is at least equal to those it superseded, and an SM can replace an SL, which can replace an SJ, and so on. But there is more to it than that (a lot more actually). Short story is that the SG/SH oils had high levels of important anti-wear additives containing zinc and phosphorus which were deemed to be bad for automotive catalytic converters. Those have been removed, and although oil chemistry is always improving, many believe that there simply is no substitute for the old stuff.

For the most part, very high quality automotive oils are OK, IF they are NOT marked EC II on the label. EC II oils can cause clutch trouble. But "Car" oils are also generally not up to taking the beating the transmission gives out, and you are usually better off using an oil made for motorcycles with shared engine/trans oil supplies that carry or meet the standards for JASO grade MA. A good second choice are C, or commercial grade oils made for truck engines, as at least they generally are still more like the SH grade oils with some extra toughness built in.

I recommend Amsoil MCF, Mobil 1 MX4T, or Golden Spectro 4. There are a number of other good choices as well.

  • jwcrf05

Posted August 06, 2006 - 06:46 PM

#3

if you don't mind spending money on oil then get the amsoil, don't mess with the other garbage. if you like saving money then do what a lot of us on here do and run shell rotella-t, you can get it at walmart for 7.98 for a gallon and it seems to work real good, its the best for the money you spend.

  • One Louder

Posted August 06, 2006 - 10:45 PM

#4

if you don't mind spending money on oil then get the amsoil, don't mess with the other garbage. if you like saving money then do what a lot of us on here do and run shell rotella-t, you can get it at walmart for 7.98 for a gallon and it seems to work real good, its the best for the money you spend.

I second that :thumbsup:

  • barch88

Posted August 07, 2006 - 01:10 AM

#5

I just run Yamalube oil...just because I don't want to spend time reading labels on a bunch of oil, be confused if I get the wrong stuff, etc...I just go to dealer, get a case of oil for my bike, and that way I know it's fine. As for being high-quality or whatever...who cares, you change the oil regularly (each ride), and oil filter regularly (every other ride), you won't have any problem. People go wayyy to far with the damn oil, if Yamaha makes Yamalube for their machines, I'm sure it is good enough to be run in them...

  • BergArabia

Posted August 07, 2006 - 03:23 AM

#6

I am still trying to get a handle on the oil thing.
I am using Mobile 1 now.
But reading posts from Gray and Digilube has made me consider Diesel engine oils.. for economy..

Just make sure you don't use an oil with friction modifiers in it.
If you want some really entertaining and very long bedtime reading, do a searh on oil and enjoy. After that you will know more about oil grades and modifiers and sheer factors than I am sure you will ever care to... :thumbsup:

actually I'll save you some time just start here : http://www.thumperta...ad.php?t=382030

  • ovrrdrive

Posted August 07, 2006 - 03:55 AM

#7

I just run Yamalube oil...just because I don't want to spend time reading labels on a bunch of oil, be confused if I get the wrong stuff, etc...I just go to dealer, get a case of oil for my bike, and that way I know it's fine. As for being high-quality or whatever...who cares, you change the oil regularly (each ride), and oil filter regularly (every other ride), you won't have any problem. People go wayyy to far with the damn oil, if Yamaha makes Yamalube for their machines, I'm sure it is good enough to be run in them...



I hate to risk starting yet another oil debate, but you can definitely feel a difference in your shifting when you switch from regular dino yamalube to a better quality oil. Even if your idea of a good quality oil is Yamalube synth, it will make a difference.

Regular yamalube will meet the manufacturers requirements if it is changed regularly, but there are many different oils out there that are just plain and simply better oil.

Try it for yourself...

  • 116CJ

Posted August 07, 2006 - 04:15 AM

#8

i run torco 20/50 is this bad oil??? i change it every ride and usually clean the ready filter every other ride. its whats at the shop is there a need to run synthetic? isn't that what shell rotella is? I may try the rotella what one are you using?

  • SUnruh

Posted August 07, 2006 - 04:53 AM

#9

i run torco 20/50 is this bad oil??? i change it every ride and usually clean the ready filter every other ride.


no not bad.

so you leave a dirty filter in with all the stuff it has caught?
:thumbsup: :ride: :applause:

  • SUnruh

Posted August 07, 2006 - 05:05 AM

#10

But "Car" oils are also generally not up to taking the beating the transmission gives out, and you are usually better off using an oil made for motorcycles with shared engine/trans oil supplies that carry or meet the standards for JASO grade MA.


and i have proven this to *NOT* be the case.

in general, car oils perform just as well as, if not better, than the "motorcycle specific" oils. in some cases, they perform so much better that i have to laugh.

Valvoline 20w50 motorcycle specific is a perfect example. it instantly made the clutch shifting clunky and notchy. it did not stay in grade in as little as 75 miles.
it shifted horrible on this oil. yet, when drained and then Quaker State High Horsepower 20w50 (a car oil) was put in, clutch and shifting operation was instantly butter smooth. however, it did not stay in grade either.

the JASO MA oil performed worse than the car oil in back to back tests.

to further cloud the issue, Valvoline VR1 20w50 is one of the few oils (and a car oil at that) that does stay in grade. as does the Valvoline VR1 sae50. another car oil.

what my 24+ oil tests over the last 5 years have shown is that "motorcycle specific" seems to mean harely motor oil, not tranny shared oil. even though they are supposed to handle the tranny, they don't.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • 116CJ

Posted August 07, 2006 - 05:34 AM

#11

no not bad.

so you leave a dirty filter in with all the stuff it has caught?
:thumbsup: :ride: :applause:

no i clean the staineless filter, i thought they were reusable? i spray the outside with contact cleaner and blow it from the inside out. is this the wrong procedure?

  • SUnruh

Posted August 07, 2006 - 06:01 AM

#12

i run torco 20/50 is this bad oil??? i change it every ride and usually clean the ready filter every other ride.


notice the quote of you saying you clean the filter every other ride???

that means you don't clean it every time. thus leaving a dirty filter in the bike.

spraying the cleaner from the inside out (use the red straw) helps loosen the debris as well.

  • 116CJ

Posted August 07, 2006 - 06:15 AM

#13

so i should clean the filter every ride your saying?

  • ncmountainman

Posted August 07, 2006 - 06:21 AM

#14

no i clean the staineless filter, i thought they were reusable? i spray the outside with contact cleaner and blow it from the inside out. is this the wrong procedure?

if your talking about the 426 filters,i ran them in my 04 wr and run them in my 05 yz. you must clean them carefully as they are kinda fragile,after about 5 cleanings (i do it every 3rd oil change) i replace them. alot of people are gonna say they are an inferior filter but i like the high flow characteristics,my oil temps are 15' cooler (measured on digital gauge w/sending unit in the engine case drain plug) than the scotts stainless filter i had switched to,after switching i noticed the bike seemed to be running a little hotter which prompted that test. i switched back and forth 3 times in a short period doing the same loop at speed for the same amount of time and got the same results each time. :thumbsup: and for those saying OMG he leaves the dirty filter in with the new oil :applause: i change my oil after every race/ride rotella 15/40,cleaning it every time would be anal to say the least :ride:

  • 116CJ

Posted August 07, 2006 - 06:53 AM

#15

so this is bs? i bought into the fact that i wouldn't have to buy a filter all the time. if you have to replace this every 5 rides its cheaper to buy paper filters. this is what the site says about their oil filters.

"CompFlow is the world’s first affordable, stainless steel reusable oil filtration system. Constructed from Swiss made, precision stainless steel filter cloth, CompFlow will filter particles as small as 35 microns and is the best protection you can buy for your 4-stroke engine, end of story.

Today’s 4-strokes need lots of oil changes and CompFlow makes it simple and affordable. No more going to the store to buy oil filters, just rinse the filter with a little solvent or contact cleaner and pop it back in, quick and easy. One CompFlow filter will last the life of your bike, and provide protection that far exceeds standard paper oil filters."

  • ncmountainman

Posted August 07, 2006 - 07:06 AM

#16

so this is bs? i bought into the fact that i wouldn't have to buy a filter all the time. if you have to replace this every 5 rides its cheaper to buy paper filters. this is what the site says about their oil filters.

"CompFlow is the world’s first affordable, stainless steel reusable oil filtration system. Constructed from Swiss made, precision stainless steel filter cloth, CompFlow will filter particles as small as 35 microns and is the best protection you can buy for your 4-stroke engine, end of story.

Today’s 4-strokes need lots of oil changes and CompFlow makes it simple and affordable. No more going to the store to buy oil filters, just rinse the filter with a little solvent or contact cleaner and pop it back in, quick and easy. One CompFlow filter will last the life of your bike, and provide protection that far exceeds standard paper oil filters."

no, the aftermarket stainless filters are meant to last a long time. the stock 426 stainless filters i use need replacing after a few cleanings. don't panic :thumbsup:

  • grayracer513

Posted August 07, 2006 - 07:35 AM

#17

The OEM 426 mesh filters are not stainless steel, they are brass, and that's what leads to the fragility NCM is talking about.

  • grayracer513

Posted August 07, 2006 - 07:38 AM

#18

notice the quote of you saying you clean the filter every other ride???

that means you don't clean it every time. thus leaving a dirty filter in the bike.

spraying the cleaner from the inside out (use the red straw) helps loosen the debris as well.

That's not all, either. When you don't change or clean the filter, 18% of your oil (assuming and '03 or later) is the old dirty stuff after the change. Servicing the filter cuts that to 8-9%

  • grayracer513

Posted August 07, 2006 - 08:17 AM

#19

to further cloud the issue, Valvoline VR1 20w50 is one of the few oils (and a car oil at that) that does stay in grade. as does the Valvoline VR1 sae50. another car oil.

...car oils perform just as well as, if not better, than the "motorcycle specific" oils. in some cases, they perform so much better that i have to laugh.

....the JASO MA oil performed worse than the car oil in back to back tests.

what my 24+ oil tests over the last 5 years have shown is that "motorcycle specific" seems to mean harely motor oil, not tranny shared oil. even though they are supposed to handle the tranny, they don't.

I use the word, "generally" because it means, "most of the time, but there are exceptions". You can find exceptions on either side of this question, as you know.

As to the comments on shifting, this is one of the things that owners will notice going from one oil to another. Grabby, cranky clutch behavior is another, and YamaLube, their synthetic included, has been reported to be involved with both. When I last used it, it was an SJ oil, and not MA. I haven't looked lately.

"MA" oils are supposed to do 3 specific things:
> Conform to a specific coefficient of friction to be compatible with wet clutches.

> Contain levels of ZDDP and other boundary lubricant anti-wear compounds similar to that of the API SH standard

> Provide additional shear resistance to deal with transmission operation.

It is obvious from the results of both lab tests and used oil analysis that not all of them do all of that. In Amsoil's tests of 27 MC oils, fewer than 10 were capable of passing the ASTM D-6278 shear down test cycle. Some of those 10 did so by the skin of their teeth.

It stands to reason that a straight grade oil would stay in grade better, since most of what leads to viscosity loss is the physical destruction of the additives that allow an oil to be a multi grade oil. But there are such additives available for use in multi grade gear oil, too, these can be and are sometimes used in engine oils to beef up their shear resistance. They cost more, but their is nothing stopping them from using them. Some do, and are better oils for it.

My experience with the 3 oils I recommended has been excellent, and while I have done only a small fraction of the UOA's you have, the ones I have done have indicated that Amsoil MCF and Mobil1 MX4T hold their grade quite well for me, and they were each done on oil run for the maximum time I run an oil change, or longer.

In any case, the key to the entire issue is that oil don't last forever, there's more to it than dirt (it can look good and still be bad), and changing oil frequently is the best assurance against have a lube related problem.

  • 116CJ

Posted August 07, 2006 - 09:14 AM

#20

no, the aftermarket stainless filters are meant to last a long time. the stock 426 stainless filters i use need replacing after a few cleanings. don't panic :thumbsup:

oh ok cool i was begining to worry for a second there.





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