Tight Woods Handling Clarifications?



2 replies to this topic
  • mikem

Posted November 20, 2001 - 03:42 PM

#1

Additional Questions - Thanks for all of your help!

Several have suggested raising the forks in the clamps by 5 - 8mm. Is this in addition to the standard 5mm setting? This would make the new distance between the top of the top clamp and the top of the fork 10-13mm. Mine is now set at 11mm. It turns much better! Is there a downside to this new setting, such as front wheel wash out or lack of stability at speed?

Are the suggestions of 12 oz fly-wheel weight in addition to the existing flywheel?

What does Sag mean? Excuse my ignorance, I'm new to all of this. How do you adjust?

If the change of raising the forks works for me, is there a reason to bring in the back wheel? Geometry/safety issue? To bring the back wheel in, do you have to remove a chain link?

Thanks,

Mike M

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  • Rapture

Posted November 20, 2001 - 04:29 PM

#2

The 10mm does not include the 5mm, it is a total measurement. The raised tubes will effect higher speed handling, and you should not get any washout, push, or climbing effect if all else is set up properly. I sometime's depending on conditions will run my tubes up until they touch the bars then back off for bar bend/flex. I also asked our local Pro-action suspension rep the same basic question when I first tried this and he said if the set-up is on then it really wont matter.
SUSPENSION TERMINOLOGY

ANGULAR MOTIONS

YAW - A motion that veers left or right from the motorcycle’s heading angle.

PITCH - A motion fore or aft, when the front end dives or when the rear end squats.

ROLL - A motion where the motorcycle leans left or right from straight-up riding.

ANTI-SQUAT RATIO - A formula that calculates the relation between the drive sprocket, rear tire contact patch, swinging arm pivot height, and the chain force lines. In order to determine the rear suspension’s characteristic to squatting under acceleration.

AXLE - The spin axis of a wheel.

CHASSIS - The frame, swing arm, suspension, and wheels of a motorcycle.

CENTER OF GRAVITY/MASS CENTER - The center point of the motorcycle’s mass. Normally located somewhere behind the cylinder and below the carburetor of a dirt bike.

DAMPER - A fluid chamber with a means of regulating the fluid flow to restrain the speed of the moving end of the damper during the compression or rebound strokes. A set of forks and a rear shock are considered dampers.

DAMPER SPEED - The relative speed in which the moving end of a damper compresses or rebounds. The two different speeds are high and low.

DAMPING - The process of absorbing the energy of impacts transmitted through the forks or rear shock on the compression stroke, and the process of absorbing the energy of the spring on the rebound stroke.

DAMPING CIRCUITS - There are normally four damping circuits which affect the damper’s speed. There is both a low and high speed circuit for the compression and rebound strokes.

COMPRESSION DAMPING - The damping circuit that absorbs the energy of compression forces on the damper.

LSC - Low Speed Compression damping circuit is affected most when riding through turns.

HSC - High Speed Compression damping circuit is affected most when riding fast over square-edged bumps.

REBOUND DAMPING - The damping circuit that affects the stored energy release of the compressed spring in order to reduce the rebounding speed of the damper.

LSR - Low Speed Rebound damping circuit is affected in the same riding circumstances as LSC.

HSR - High Speed Rebound damping is affected in the same riding circumstances as HSC.

PIVOT - A fixed point at which a lever rotates. Example: swinging arm or suspension linkage.

PRE-LOAD - Pre-load is applied to the fork and shock springs in order to bring the bike to the proper ride height or race-sag dimension. The pre-load can be biased to change the bike’s steering geometry. High pre-load/less sag in the front forks, will make the steering heavy/slow and more stable at high speed.

RAKE - The angle between the steering axis and a vertical line.

STEERING ANGLE - The angle of the handle bars as you rotate them left or right about the steering axis.

STEERING AXIS - The axis where the forks rotate in the frame.

SWINGARM - The rear fork that connects the rear wheel to the frame.

S.A. ANGLE - The angle of rotational motion about the swinging arm pivot axis.

S.A. PIVOT AXIS - The point where the swinging arm mounts to the frame and rotates.

TRAIL - On the front end, the horizontal distance between the steering axis at the road surface, to the tire contact point. Generally forks with off-set axles have more trail than forks with straight through axles.

TRAPPED AIR SPACE - The height of the air space that forms in the top of the fork tube between the fork cap and the oil.

UNSPRUNG/SPRUNG WEIGHT - The unsprung weight of the motorcycle are parts like the wheels, brakes, swingarm and suspension linkage, and the lower front fork legs. The sprung weight is all the parts of the motorcycle that are supported by the suspension.

WEIGHT BIAS - Also called weight distribution. The amount of weight on each wheel of the motorcycle.

WHEELBASE - The distance between the front and rear axle centers.

SLANG TERMINOLOGY

BOTTOMING - A riding situation whereby all the suspension travel is utilized.

CLICKERS - The knobs or screws that control the LSC & LCR circuits of the forks or shock.

STIFF/SLOW SOFT/FAST - These words are used to describe the damping quality of the forks or shock. With regard to the "Clickers", these words refer to the direction of rotation that you will turn the clickers in order to improve the damping. Turning the clickers clockwise will make the damping stiff/slow. Turning the clickers counter-clockwise will make the damping soft/fast.

FLICKING - The action of putting the bike into a full lean position quickly.

FRONT END DIVING - This is what happens when the front forks compress quickly. It usually occurs when braking for turns.

HANDLING - The quality of response from the chassis of a motorcycle, while riding through a variety of obstacles like turns, jumps, hills, whoops and bumps.

HARSHNESS - A word used to describe the quality of the damping.

HEAD SHAKING - A term that describes the high speed oscillation of the forks when braking for a bend at the end of a fast straight-away. Every motorcycle has a certain frequency band when it oscillates. This frequency can be tuned to a higher vehicle speed with a sacrifice in the bike’s ability to turn.

HIGH SIDING - A term that describes what happens when a bike falls to the outside of a turn.

LOW SIDING - A term that describes what happens when a motorcycle falls to the inside of a turn.

HOPPING - Wheel hopping is when the tire bounces up off the ground due to a reaction from a bump.

KICKING - A word often used to describe both "Pogoing" and "Packing".

MID TURN WOBBLE - When the bike wobbles or weaves near the apex of a turn.

PACKING - When the rear shock is compressed by the wheel hitting one bump and cannot rebound quickly enough to absorb the impact of the second or third bump.

POGOING - When the rear shock rebounds so quickly that the rear wheel leaves the ground.

***RACE SAG - This term refers to number of millimeters that the forks or shock sag with the rider on the bike in full riding gear. This is essential to proper suspension tuning but is often overlooked or adjusted incorrectly.

REAR END SQUATTING - Squatting occurs when you accelerate the motorcycle. The chain forces push down on the rear wheel. The resultant forces are transferred up the swinging arm into the main frame causing a lifting force which extends the front end causing a weight shift backwards.

COUNTER STEERING - When the rider applies steering pressure in the opposite direction of the turn.

UNLADEN SAG - The number of millimeters that the bike sags under it’s own weight without a rider.

SHOCK FADE - A condition that occurs when the shock oil becomes so hot that it loses it’s transmitability. The damping affect is reduced and the shock compresses easily and rebounds quickly.

SPIKING - A word used to describe how the forks work when the damping is too stiff/slow. This is also associated with "Arm Pump". The feeling in your arms when your forks aren’t absorbing the energy of impacts to the wheel but instead transfer them to your arms.

STICTION - A combination of the words static and friction. This word is used to describe the tension exerted on the moving damper parts by the stationary parts like the bushings, seals, and wipers. Low stiction is desirable because it has less of an affect on the damping.

SPEED WOBBLE - When a motorcycle wavers back and forth rapidly at high speeds.

SWAPPING - When the rear end of the bike pivots around from side to side very quickly.

TANK SLAPPER - When the forks rotate from stop to stop rapidly and your arms and body slap back and forth against the motorcycle’s gas tank.

WASHOUT - A term used to describe what happens when the bike and rider fall to the inside of a turn.

WHEELIE - A word used to describe a motorcycle in motion with the front wheel off the ground.

TERMS USED FOR SUSPENSION COMPONENTS

BASE-VALVE - The compression piston and valving that fits onto the compression bolt assembly.

BLADDER - A closed-end, thick rubber, cylindrical shaped piece that contains the nitrogen gas in a rear shock. The bladder works like an extra cushion on HSC.

BUMPER - A taper shaped dense foam piece that fits on the shock shaft.

BUSHING - A bronze or plastic ring used as a load bearing surface in forks or shocks.

CLEVIS - A fork shaped piece of aluminum used as the bottom mount for most shocks.

DAMPER ASSEMBLY - The parts of a shock comprised of the clevis, shaft, bumper, piston, and shims.

DAMPER ROD - The large diameter aluminum tube in the lower leg of telescopic forks.

NITROGEN - An inert gas used to pressurize the bladder or reservoir of shocks.

PISTON - A cylindrical shaped piece of steel with several ports arranged around the periphery so as to direct oil towards the face of shocks.

CLICKERS - The screws or knobs used to fine-tune the low speed damping on forks or shocks.

COMPRESSION BOLT ASSEMBLY - A large diameter bolt that houses the low speed compression adjusting screw and the compression valve assembly.

PISTON ROD - A small diameter steel rod that fits into the upper legs of cartridge forks. It fastens to the fork cap on one end and holds the rebound piston and shims on the other end.

PISTON RING - A ring that fits around the piston and prevents oil from by-passing the piston and shims.

RESERVOIR - A cylindrical shaped device that contains oil and nitrogen gas.

RE-VALVING - A term used to describe a fine-tuning service for altering the compression and rebound shims in order to affect a certain damping characteristic that keeps the motorcycle’s wheels following the terrain in many riding situations

SEAL - A rubber or plastic cylindrical shaped piece that prevents oil from being lost from the damper.

SHAFT - The chrome rod on the rear shock that has a clevis on one end and the piston and shims fastened to the other end.

SHIMS - A thin, steel, round, flat washer used to exert resistance on the oil flow through a piston. A series of shims (valve stack or valving) with varying outer diameters and thicknesses are arranged in sequence to provide a damping affect.

TRANSITION SHIMS - These are shims with very small outer diameters that are used to separate the normal shims of the low and high speed valve stacks.

SHOCK BODY - The aluminum cylinder which contains the damper assembly.

SHOCK DYNO - A machine that cycles a shock absorber at different damper speeds and measures the resistance posed by the four damping circuits.

SPRING - A steel wire that is wound into a coil shape and tempered in order to provide resistance to compression forces and store energy for release to the extended position.

TRIPLE-CLAMP ASSEMBLY - Includes the steering stem-bottom clamp, and top clamp. The triple clamp assembly connects the forks to the frame.

TRANSMITABILITY - This term refers to the suspension oil’s ability to transmit shock loads. As the oil’s temperature rises, the transmitability falls. Example: With every increase in temperature of 18 degrees Fahrenheit the transmitability of the oil falls 50%.

VISCOSITY - A rating system for oils that measures the oil’s flow rate through a fixed orifice at a certain temperature. Also known as the oil’s weight. Example: SAE 30 Wt.

VALVES - A term that refers to a series of shims either for the compression or the rebound damping.

VISCOSITY INDEX - The flow rate characteristic of the oil over a range of temperatures. The VI rating of an oil is directly linked to the oil’s transmitability. Cartridge fork oil has a VI# of 115. Shock oil normally has a much higher average operating temperature so its VI# is 300.
:)

  • Rapture

Posted November 20, 2001 - 04:38 PM

#3

Setting The Sag

The sag of your bike is determined by the rate of your spring and the amount the spring is pre-loaded. Sag is very important. Take your time and do it right.

Step One:

Put the bike or ATV on a crate or stand so that the weight is off the rear wheel(s). (On an ATV you can pull clear up on the rear grab bar.) Take a measurement from the center of the axle to a solid point above. (Bike... A seat bolt usually works. ATV... Bottom of fender.) Write this measurement down!

Step Two:

At this point you need another person to read the tape measure.

Take the machine off the crate. Put it on level ground. (Preferably your garage floor.) Bounce lightly a couple of times. Position yourself in the neutral position of the seat directly above the foot pegs. Keep one foot on the floor (only for balance - n/a for ATV). Have your assistant measure using the same points of your first measurement. Write this figure down below the first measurement. Subtract measurement (2) from measurement (1). Example: 600 mm -505 mm
95 mm = Race Sag

Step Three:

Check Static Sag (unloaded sag)

With the rider off the bike, bounce the bike a couple of times to resettle the suspension. Measure again using the same points as before. Write this figure down below the first measurement. Subtract measurement 3 from measurement
1. Example:
600 mm -580 mm
20 mm = Static Sag

*Note: With the race sag set at 95 mm, the proper static sag should be between 15mm and 25mm (1/2" - 1").

If the static sag is less than 1/2" you need a stiffer spring. If it is more than 1" you need a lighter spring.

I do not run any extra flywheel weights but that does not mean anything, other guys in here may and have had great results, I just never tried them, and you my have to remove a link or 2 but get that tire up as close as posible.




 
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