Steel Framed Purists Unite!...A bit of an editorial


139 replies to this topic
  • Bullwinkle

Posted July 01, 2006 - 03:19 PM

#41

You can't change youth ignorance or attitude, but how you deal with it and address it really reveals how good of a mentor or influence YOU are. Be more of an ambassador for offroad bikes instead of a internet forum soapbox blow hard. Throwing insults at someone because they don't know how to mod their airbox or because their post count is in single digits doesn't do anyone any good.


Well put Digital Soldier! Since we're playing true confessions I'm a 48 year old guy who has been on two wheels for over thirty years, although I just (very) recently got back in the dirt.
I think it's pretty safe to call it a fact that every generation feels that the preceding one is lazy, arrogant, ignorant, etc., etc., etc. This has been true for all of recorded history. One of the tests of the quality of our character is our willingness to take the generations following us (and people in general for that matter) as they are. With a few exceptions there is nothing wrong with them that a little life experience won't cure. Chastising them (as opposed to constructive advice) doesn't help the problem as Clark sees it, it just makes thing's worse.
Just another single digit posters $.02 worth.

  • Air Cooled

Posted July 01, 2006 - 04:04 PM

#42

Let me start by saying I own an 2004 XR400R,and it is perfect for me;Steel frame ,air cooling. Don't be mad at these "Lazy" children and their simplistic and ignorant questions.You have 20+ years of experience which is realisticly 60% of the modern dirt bike age.
If the WWW had existed in your youth I will almost guarantee you would be doing the same thing as they. Now,I think everyone should own and read the manual for their motorcycle,but this forum is a resource as well.
How would you feel if some 90 year old dude started railing you for being a dumb kid?

That being said maybe TT could have two new forums,Romper Room and Wisdom of the Ages.

  • Looks450

Posted July 01, 2006 - 04:40 PM

#43

As a twenty something that has only double fugure posts, i was actually offended reading your post.

Thanks for generalising me, and airing your preconcieved conceptions about me and my dirtbike riding. Thanks for telling me that i am to impatient to read my manual before asking for help.

FACT: It is quicker to get on the net and ask for help than to decipher the manual and work out whether i have all the right tools then apply the wording to a language that i can understand.

FACT: Double figure posts is by no means a direct reflection on my dirtbike knowledge or experience.

FACT: Being twenty-five does not make my knowlege on dirtbikes void in general discussion and advice.

Please acknowlege that some people, myself included, cannot be on TT everyday and can only check for interesting threads occasionally. Couple this with only learning of TT a couple of months ago and this would have something to do with the post count.

Clarke i understand how you can see what you seen and think what you think, but in reality it is a naive view. The people you seem to dislike will be the ones that will be posting long after you finish riding. Perhaps instead of guarding your knowlege for those who you think worthy, share it with the rest of us mere mortals and know that you have done you bit for the dirtbiking community.

Thanks for reading
Looks

  • Just034

Posted July 01, 2006 - 06:09 PM

#44

I am just blown away that the people angry the changes to the new 07WR450 act like they are surprised to see the WR making the same changes that made the YZ orders of magnitude better than the previous edition. Could someone possibly be so ignorant as to think this was not going to happen? Then bitch about it as if it was not going to happen. Did you really think Yamaha would consider the 04-05-06 or whatever to be the pinnacle of off road engineering and hang up their slide rules (Oh crap my old age is showing someone may lump me into a group with clark)?

  • ARin

Posted July 01, 2006 - 07:20 PM

#45

I am just blown away that the people angry the changes to the new 07WR450 act like they are surprised to see the WR making the same changes that made the YZ orders of magnitude better than the previous edition. Could someone possibly be so ignorant as to think this was not going to happen? Then bitch about it as if it was not going to happen. Did you really think Yamaha would consider the 04-05-06 or whatever to be the pinnacle of off road engineering and hang up their slide rules (Oh crap my old age is showing someone may lump me into a group with clark)?



oh no...i see the innovations as a definite step forward...BUT, as you will bear witness Spencer, the smaller tanks on the newer models (your 05 crfx450) is quite restricting... why not REALLY differentiate the off road models and the MX models??? KTM seems to have the right idea, with a number of models to cater to all types of riding...

It just seems to me that a few more years down the road, and the only difference between the MX and offroad bikes is going to be a headlight.

The older WR's were dedicated trail machines...big tanks, e start, bigger rads, bigger rear tire...(some of those things are still true)...and YES, they carried around more weight, but the benefits outweighed the drawbacks of a few extra pounds.

Now i have ridden your crfx, and i must say, the balance is awesome, and it is a comfortable bike...BUT, it feels short to me...unnerving that i feel closer to the nasty terrain...and i KNOW you would prefer a bigger tank....heck you and me both have been left in the dust by the older 400 and 426's and their giant tanks!!! all the ergonomics in the world dont mean squat when you are out of juice!!!

And i ALSO realize that a lot of that has to do with so much saddle time on my OWN bike...i suppose this is really just a case of being TOO familiar with something, and fearing change.

But i REALLY would like yamaha to take a more proactive aproach to their offroad bikes...instead of just tossing a headlight on their MX model. Instead of working on the weight of the frame (something more important to the guy doing the tail whip over the triples) work on the strength, longevity and the dampening characteristics that are more important when offroad. Give us something that will go 100 miles...give us something we can take to baja...Give us something we can get on, and ride into the sunset.

  • Drunken Monkey

Posted July 01, 2006 - 08:16 PM

#46

But i REALLY would like yamaha to take a more proactive aproach to their offroad bikes...instead of just tossing a headlight on their MX model.

Yamaha's MX model works better off road than the WR!

You want a trail bike or an enduro race bike? They make the TT-R 600 for a great trail bike.

I would love a YZ with a headlight, and most people would agree. Slap on a 12 - 15 litre tank and blast off into the wilderness.

No mucking around with EPA crap, no restrictive exhaust, no airbox mods, no soft ass suspension valving, just pure race bike. How much money have you spent on your WR just to get it to a YZ with a big tank? Granted the YZ gearbox is lacking wide ratio, but I still found the 5 speeds on my old wr were not enough.

I don't miss my e-start one bit, ever since the auto-decomp cams came in, starting has never been a big ritual. My bike starts first kick, every time. If you tried the kick starter on your bike, you too would feel the same.

If you want e-start, have a look at the new KTM SX 450's and 505's. That is how you make a kick ass light weight bike with e-start.

  • tony1970

Posted July 01, 2006 - 08:27 PM

#47

oh no...i see the innovations as a definite step forward...BUT, as you will bear witness Spencer, the smaller tanks on the newer models (your 05 crfx450) is quite restricting... why not REALLY differentiate the off road models and the MX models??? KTM seems to have the right idea, with a number of models to cater to all types of riding...

It just seems to me that a few more years down the road, and the only difference between the MX and offroad bikes is going to be a headlight.

The older WR's were dedicated trail machines...big tanks, e start, bigger rads, bigger rear tire...(some of those things are still true)...and YES, they carried around more weight, but the benefits outweighed the drawbacks of a few extra pounds.

Now i have ridden your crfx, and i must say, the balance is awesome, and it is a comfortable bike...BUT, it feels short to me...unnerving that i feel closer to the nasty terrain...and i KNOW you would prefer a bigger tank....heck you and me both have been left in the dust by the older 400 and 426's and their giant tanks!!! all the ergonomics in the world dont mean squat when you are out of juice!!!

And i ALSO realize that a lot of that has to do with so much saddle time on my OWN bike...i suppose this is really just a case of being TOO familiar with something, and fearing change.

But i REALLY would like yamaha to take a more proactive aproach to their offroad bikes...instead of just tossing a headlight on their MX model. Instead of working on the weight of the frame (something more important to the guy doing the tail whip over the triples) work on the strength, longevity and the dampening characteristics that are more important when offroad. Give us something that will go 100 miles...give us something we can take to baja...Give us something we can get on, and ride into the sunset.

None of us really know how the frame on the new WR will be until they are out there and tested among the masses. Hopefully Yamaha set up the WR frames like Honda did with their X models. With more flex in them than the MX versions. As far as tanks go i really do not understand why the big 4 just do not use a similar copy of the Acerbis or IMS tank. The aftermarket has shown proven designs feel slim and at the same time carrying the weight low. I guess the final weight numbers dictate function. :ride:

  • clark4131

Posted July 01, 2006 - 08:29 PM

#48

Steve,
May we bestow on you the WR forum's first ever "Ann Coulter Award" - way to stir the pot!

There certainly are worse things to win...the DNC's presidential nomination leaps to mind. I feel that from time to time, lively discussion and vigorous debate is good for the soul. As such, I like to help it along when I can. How'm I doin' so far? For my next trick, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat...SC

  • Drunken Monkey

Posted July 01, 2006 - 08:30 PM

#49

As far as tanks go i really do not understand why the big 4 just do not use a similar copy of the Acerbis or IMS tank. The aftermarket has shown proven designs feel slim and at the same time carrying the weight low. I guess the final weight numbers dictate function. :ride:

Manufacturing costs. I would love way bigger radiators! just imagine one more row added to every single radiator and how much that would cost! It would be better for the bike, but not for yamaha.

  • Just034

Posted July 01, 2006 - 08:35 PM

#50

Arin, I completely agree with you on tank size, I consider a 3.2 gal minimum for any off road bike. Though I am no huge KTM fan it is nice to see their best research going into off road bikes. I can see how you think WR's are treated as the hand-me-down brother to the YZ. Everyone needs to relax and be pleasantly surprised at how well the new WR will be. No one should be surprised however that the WR's have gone in this direction. I remember last year in this very forum posts from may who were disappointed that the WR's did not have the AL frame the YZ's were being released with. Another thing is don't kid yourself, the repositioning of the motor and moving of the battery will have significant impacts on the balance and handling. I feel a huge difference when I move my forks up or down in the triple clamp just a couple mm's so little difference can have huge effects on handling and balance. This bike may be the best off road, do it all bike ever built (providing one puts on an aftermarket tank).

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  • Assassin

Posted July 01, 2006 - 08:58 PM

#51

There certainly are worse things to win...the DNC's presidential nomination leaps to mind. I feel that from time to time, lively discussion and vigorous debate is good for the soul. As such, I like to help it along when I can. How'm I doin' so far? For my next trick, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat...SC

sounds like you spends too much flapping your mouth instead of flapping off the back of a dirtbike.

Maybe that is the reason you have so much more posts and others have very few.

You need to get out and ride more. You wouldn't be grumpy old man then!
Maybe just tired and sore, but have smile on your face :ride:

  • ARin

Posted July 01, 2006 - 09:38 PM

#52

id be willing to bet that clark logs more miles than a good percentage of the TT members.

  • GOTWHEELS

Posted July 02, 2006 - 07:32 AM

#53

Ok Guys, I Think It's Time For A Group Hug.

  • Junior426

Posted July 02, 2006 - 08:26 AM

#54

All I can say is WOW! Clark you are the man. I fall a bit below the age category you are talking about and to read all the posts from people a few years older than me who appear to be exactly as you describe them. I can only hope that as I grow older in the next few years I don't morph into one of the disrespectful youth you speak of. I believe that as many innovations as there are in these new bikes, they are unneccessary for 50%+ of the riders that want them. Only the best racers can use the advantages of such things as an aluminum frame, and I know that I'm not one of them! I hate to be part of the youth as I automatically get labeled as something I am not. Learn to respect your elders and those more experienced than yourself guys! Anyways, have fun and ride smart. :ride:

  • Just034

Posted July 02, 2006 - 04:14 PM

#55

Just to clarify I am beyond my 20's have more than "double digit" post count and know what a unibiker is. For clarification there are significant difference between a "tin foil frame" and an Aluminum frame.

Name: tin
Symbol: Sn
Atomic number: 50
Atomic weight: 118.710 (7) g
CAS Registry ID: 7440-31-5
Group number: 14
Group name: (none)
Period number: 5
Block: p-block


Description
Here is a brief description of tin.

Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: silvery lustrous grey
Classification: Metallic
Availability:
tin is available in many forms including bars, foil, granules, powder, nanosized activated powder, shot, wire, sticks, ingots, and "mossy tin". Ordinary tin is a silvery-white metal, is malleable, somewhat ductile, and has a highly crystalline structure.

Name: aluminium
Symbol: Al
Atomic number: 13
Atomic weight: 26.981538 (2)
CAS Registry ID: 7429-90-5
Group number: 13
Group name: (none)
Period number: 3
Block: p-block


Description
Here is a brief description of aluminium.

Standard state: solid at 298 K
Colour: silvery
Classification: Metallic
Availability:
Small and large samples of aluminium foil, sheet, wire, rod and tube like this (and aluminium alloy in rod form). Pure aluminium is a silvery-white metal with many desirable characteristics. It is light, nontoxic (as the metal), nonmagnetic and nonsparking. It is somewhat decorative. It is easily formed, machined, and cast. Pure aluminium is soft and lacks strength, but alloys with small amounts of copper, magnesium, silicon, manganese, and other elements have very useful properties. Aluminium is an abundant element in the earth's crust, but it is not found free in nature. The Bayer process is used to refine aluminium from bauxite, an aluminium ore.
(techical info from http://www.webelemen...ext/Al/key.html)

  • ARin

Posted July 02, 2006 - 07:48 PM

#56

spencer you dingleberry, common "tin foil" is made from aluminum anyhow.
:ride:

  • sorbs

Posted July 02, 2006 - 08:15 PM

#57

You can look at the 07 in a couple of ways. One, it is nice to see the old gal freshened up. The second is the tinfoil going forward is now the norm.

For the next few years my 04 is not going to be replaced, not enough change to justify the move. That is the Japanese way...change a little at a time: 07 frame...08 EFI...09 bugs worked out...

Enjoyed the post and the replies. Keep'em coming.

  • Just034

Posted July 02, 2006 - 08:33 PM

#58

Arin we need to get a High mountain Utah trip in the works for when I get back so we can move on and have some fun. With the mass exodous of everyone else it is you and I Red and Blue living in perfect harmony. Beside we don't need those guys anyhow :ride:

  • MotoGoalie

Posted July 03, 2006 - 08:23 AM

#59

this forum is becoming more and more like the honda forums.

and by the way, im with you clark. give me steel frames, tall stance, range in my tank and higher compression. the 04 was the last of the great wr's.

VIVA!!!


The 06....my fliend. The 06.

Carb access will be a PITA, no doubt.

  • AHRMA17L

Posted July 03, 2006 - 09:21 AM

#60

Isn't it bizarre that some people can actually enjoy riding an old XR? I could, but us old farts actually appreciate riding (I always did). But now its all about expectation and bling. No wonder everybody's on Prozac...


This whole thread cracks me up. I have been a Yamaha and Honda guy for the past 30 years and have owned countless models of each. I bought a leftover 2005 WR450 and have not ridden it much. I think it is a spectacular bike and it is great off road. I do think I will buy a 2007 WR450 though, as it will most likely be the only aluminum framed, carbureted WR.

Now for the bizarre part about the XR's...

I also currently own 3 XR400's. I guess up here in the land of Bigfoot the bizarre is not so weird. Aside from the DRZ400 which is a close second, I do not know of a bike that is more reliable that the XR250 and XR400. I also do not know a bike that can endure the riding we do without the maintenace.

For those of us who actually ride and do not spend their time making claims and starting rumors on Thumpertalk, we need bikes that are dependable and reliable, and will last when held wide open for hours on end. Whiz bang technology doesn't do a lot of good when you are 100 miles from the nearest town, and a valve get tight, the battery dies and I do not have a back up kick start lever. or a piece of grit get into my fancy Keihn FCR buried deep within the frame rails.

Some of my riding buddies put on anywhere from 18,000 to 25,000 miles off road each YEAR on their bikes. A lot of our rides are counted by days, not hours or miles. Can you imagine having to adjust the valves in a dim hotel room 1500 miles from home? This is where the XR fits in. Why Honda decided to discontinue the 250 and 400 escapes me.

Anyway, I like my WR450, I like my Husqvarna TC450. I love my XR's. There is just not another bike as reliable, just as there was nothing as impressive as my 2001 YZ426 when it was new. I guess it is all relative.




 
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