cant read TFB??? heres your sign 
dan
dan
128
1710 replies to this topic
1369 posts
Location: California
Posted 16 August 2006 - 05:17 AM
TimFurryBalls said:
Is that an MRD pipe?
Why yes it is!
theDogger
1369 posts
Location: California
Posted 16 August 2006 - 05:24 AM
BaconCRF said:
cant read TFB??? heres your sign
dan
dan
What is TFB????
848 posts
Location: Arizona
Posted 16 August 2006 - 05:59 AM
Good job on doing things yourself.
There is an even simpler way to disassemble the shock that does not involve removing the adjuster. First, mount the shock upside down in a vice. Open all adjusters to full open and release the nitrogen. Then push the seal head assy down into the body. Remove the clip. Now slowly add compressed air to the bladder. The building pressure will ease the seal head right out of the body. Make sure you have a rag wrapped around there and guide it with your other hand so the shaft and all the oil don't go flying all over the room. It's better to do it this way because yanking the shaft assembly out by hand sometimes results in the piston ring or o-ring getting sliced by the sharp clip groove, especially if you rock the shaft back and forth while pulling.
Once the shaft is out, you can release the air, depress the bladder cap, remove its clip and pull it out. I don't recommend the "grab the valve cap with a pair if pliers and pull" method. You could easily damage the threads and cap. I use one of these long valve stem puller tools. The kind that are used to pop rubber valve stems into car wheels. You can thread it right onto the valve of the bladder cap and pull it right out. Works perfect.
Question, how did you remove and install the clevis from the shock shaft?
There is an even simpler way to disassemble the shock that does not involve removing the adjuster. First, mount the shock upside down in a vice. Open all adjusters to full open and release the nitrogen. Then push the seal head assy down into the body. Remove the clip. Now slowly add compressed air to the bladder. The building pressure will ease the seal head right out of the body. Make sure you have a rag wrapped around there and guide it with your other hand so the shaft and all the oil don't go flying all over the room. It's better to do it this way because yanking the shaft assembly out by hand sometimes results in the piston ring or o-ring getting sliced by the sharp clip groove, especially if you rock the shaft back and forth while pulling.
Once the shaft is out, you can release the air, depress the bladder cap, remove its clip and pull it out. I don't recommend the "grab the valve cap with a pair if pliers and pull" method. You could easily damage the threads and cap. I use one of these long valve stem puller tools. The kind that are used to pop rubber valve stems into car wheels. You can thread it right onto the valve of the bladder cap and pull it right out. Works perfect.
Question, how did you remove and install the clevis from the shock shaft?
1369 posts
Location: California
Posted 16 August 2006 - 06:10 AM
Quote
Question, how did you remove and install the clevis from the shock shaft?
It was real easy.....once you have the shock disassembled take the shaft (Remember to measure the distance from the top of the nut to the top of the shaft for a reference.) and remove the screw in the bottom of the clevis and there is also a small allen screw in the side.
Then back the clicker out and it will un-screw itself as you keep turning it. Once out take note as to the direction the backing plate is in there. This plate has a angle cut in it and is what moves the rebound rod in the shaft.
Once all that is done get at propane torch and heat just above the clevis on that nut. It will not take much heat to loosen the factory green loc-tite on the threads. Then just spin the shaft out. Be careful....once the shaft is out that backing plate will come out finally.
Becareful with the clicker also you can seperate it just by pushing the screw down and out. But do this over a white towel as there is a very small ball bearing and spring in there that will fall out and then you are up shit's creek. This is what goes in the detent to allow it to click into place..
Its pretty easy just take your time.....and take pictures.
theDogger
296 posts
Location: Arkansas
Posted 16 August 2006 - 06:19 AM
dogger, excellent thread.
I feel like I can get the fork apart, get the shims stack off, etc.
What I don't know is this: how do I know what combination of adding/removing/ordering of shims will give me the ride characterisics I want?
Also, i've gained a little confusion over the course of this thread....I thought that when you send your fork off to for a re-valve, they took all that stuff out and dropped in GOLD VALVES, or something NEW in there...but now I'm thinking maybe they just re-do the stack....are those 2 ways of acheiveing the same result, or am I getting confused?
I was thinking of doing this:
1) buy the Race Tech "Gold Valves" ($150 bucks)
2) install myself
Is that a bad idea? Same result as if I just change my stacks?
What special tools do I need? To read Race Tech's site, I'd need a cubic ton of specialized tools....
Can you make a list of all tools that you required that aren't "standard garage tools"?
Many thanks,
N
I feel like I can get the fork apart, get the shims stack off, etc.
What I don't know is this: how do I know what combination of adding/removing/ordering of shims will give me the ride characterisics I want?
Also, i've gained a little confusion over the course of this thread....I thought that when you send your fork off to for a re-valve, they took all that stuff out and dropped in GOLD VALVES, or something NEW in there...but now I'm thinking maybe they just re-do the stack....are those 2 ways of acheiveing the same result, or am I getting confused?
I was thinking of doing this:
1) buy the Race Tech "Gold Valves" ($150 bucks)
2) install myself
Is that a bad idea? Same result as if I just change my stacks?
What special tools do I need? To read Race Tech's site, I'd need a cubic ton of specialized tools....
Can you make a list of all tools that you required that aren't "standard garage tools"?
Many thanks,
N
1369 posts
Location: California
Posted 16 August 2006 - 07:15 AM
Yes there are a lot of different ways to re-valve the suspension and difference types of valving..I am fortunate enough to have help from someone that knows suspension. This is very rare to be able to get help like that. If I didn't have help more than likely would have went the GV way.
-Race Tec Gold Valves (other companies offer kit also)
-Changing the stock shims stacks
As far as tools go I really did not have to buy any tools that I did not already have. What I did by is the rear shock seal Bullet. ($15.00) allows for the rod seal to be placed over the shaft end w/o damage to the bushing or seal. But you can use teflon tape instead.
Here is a list of what you'll need to buy:
ProCircuit PC-03 seal-oring grease $10.00
Cartridge Rod Holding Tool $20.00 or you can use a 13mm wrench
Fork Cap Wrench (Motion Pro) $20.00
Shock Seal Bullet $15.00
Nitro re-charge $5-$20 (depents on the local shop)
Fork Seal Tool $60 (you can make one out of PVC. The Showa stuff goes in easy)
Basic Tools:
Metric wrenches and sockets
File or grinder for taking off the peens on the stacks (Looks difficult but is rather easy)
Assorted Screw drivers
teflon tape
zip ties for the valve stacks
paper & pen (record the stack)
some misc. most people have
The best thing that you could do is get the Honda Service Manual for a basic guide. If you need it PM me.
I ended up sending out my damper rods and shock piston to have the bushings and seals changed as some special tools were required. (MX-Tech helped there)
theDogger
-Race Tec Gold Valves (other companies offer kit also)
-Changing the stock shims stacks
- Single-stage (Most Tuners..)
- 2-stage stack (RG3...)
- 3-stage (Pro-Action)
As far as tools go I really did not have to buy any tools that I did not already have. What I did by is the rear shock seal Bullet. ($15.00) allows for the rod seal to be placed over the shaft end w/o damage to the bushing or seal. But you can use teflon tape instead.
Here is a list of what you'll need to buy:
ProCircuit PC-03 seal-oring grease $10.00
Cartridge Rod Holding Tool $20.00 or you can use a 13mm wrench
Fork Cap Wrench (Motion Pro) $20.00
Shock Seal Bullet $15.00
Nitro re-charge $5-$20 (depents on the local shop)
Fork Seal Tool $60 (you can make one out of PVC. The Showa stuff goes in easy)
Basic Tools:
Metric wrenches and sockets
File or grinder for taking off the peens on the stacks (Looks difficult but is rather easy)
Assorted Screw drivers
teflon tape
zip ties for the valve stacks
paper & pen (record the stack)
some misc. most people have
The best thing that you could do is get the Honda Service Manual for a basic guide. If you need it PM me.
I ended up sending out my damper rods and shock piston to have the bushings and seals changed as some special tools were required. (MX-Tech helped there)
theDogger
4016 posts
Location: Arizona
Posted 16 August 2006 - 11:47 AM
theDogger said:
Why yes it is!
theDogger
theDogger
4267 posts
Location: Arizona
Posted 16 August 2006 - 12:21 PM
TimFurryBalls said:
No BS'ing, but I noticed the craftsmanship!
i assembled that motor and dialed it and the dam thing just ripped like no tomorrow,
i really should have bought it ,--it all could work on my 07, ----i am a fool for not getting it,--
then i see where he dropped the price down to 5 bones ---good lord you just can't go wrong,
i was trying to scrap up the 15 bones for it
,i just finished another one just like what you got and i just did some jetting on it and my god the thing works great----it is just so cool to have all that low end and have it be so smooth and adjustable and usable,----
it just gives me a woody
1369 posts
Location: California
Posted 29 August 2006 - 07:13 AM
Well went from this..
to this
Went out to test things out and the suspension is working great. Did not have a ton of time to really hammer some laps out but got a good feel. Going out today again and should have plenty of time to get a better idea of what is working and what is not.
But the over all ride is night and day...there is no more lose feeling. The first 1/3 of the stroke takes the small stuff great and then things start to really stiffen up. From not riding in a month and a half....3 laps is all I could handle at about 75%-80% speed before my arms were like Popeye's on a spinach O.D. What I like the most is that I have a slam factor now. When I got tired and screwed up and grab a handful and slammed the face of a very large whoop I was bracing myself for a ride but the suspension just soaked it up and I was able to keep it together with very little effort.
Gone is the front dive of the forks in the corners....they now stay up in the stroke thanks to the extra shim in the mid-valve.
Over all I can say that I learned a lot and I am actually looking forward to really fine tuning the suspension. The suspension in so much better but I know as my speed increases I will be making adjustments to compensate. It was not as hard as I thought it would be. I have also picked up a 2nd set of suspenders from eBay so I have 2 sets and can work on one while testing the other and just be able to swap them out.
I think that my next move is looking into getting some Works sliders that are coated. I would not want to go the route of have the DLC coated over the stock chrome. The Works stuff is a Ti-Nitrate directly coated to the sliders and inside of the forks and shock body not over anything. Not sure about spending $750+ on having DLC coated over the chrome. Would this not create a slightly larger dia. and cause it to be tighter than before causing more stiction? Not sure if they strip the chrome but from what I have heard they coat over the top. But a set of works slider/tubes and shock shaft and body would reallybe some icing on the cake....
Who needs the aftermarket suspension tuners.....even though I did spend some $$$ on the FC parts I did save about $400.00 in labor.
DIY baby!!!!
Overall I give myself 
(and also want to mention that the MRD pipe is a nice addition. I could totally feel a difference in the power. Snaps off the bottom and pulls harder in the mid-top. My top end will be going off to Ron shortly for a valve job and JE HC piston and the CrowerPower G2 cam from Josh. This is where the fun begins)
theDogger
to this
Went out to test things out and the suspension is working great. Did not have a ton of time to really hammer some laps out but got a good feel. Going out today again and should have plenty of time to get a better idea of what is working and what is not.
But the over all ride is night and day...there is no more lose feeling. The first 1/3 of the stroke takes the small stuff great and then things start to really stiffen up. From not riding in a month and a half....3 laps is all I could handle at about 75%-80% speed before my arms were like Popeye's on a spinach O.D. What I like the most is that I have a slam factor now. When I got tired and screwed up and grab a handful and slammed the face of a very large whoop I was bracing myself for a ride but the suspension just soaked it up and I was able to keep it together with very little effort.
Gone is the front dive of the forks in the corners....they now stay up in the stroke thanks to the extra shim in the mid-valve.
Over all I can say that I learned a lot and I am actually looking forward to really fine tuning the suspension. The suspension in so much better but I know as my speed increases I will be making adjustments to compensate. It was not as hard as I thought it would be. I have also picked up a 2nd set of suspenders from eBay so I have 2 sets and can work on one while testing the other and just be able to swap them out.
I think that my next move is looking into getting some Works sliders that are coated. I would not want to go the route of have the DLC coated over the stock chrome. The Works stuff is a Ti-Nitrate directly coated to the sliders and inside of the forks and shock body not over anything. Not sure about spending $750+ on having DLC coated over the chrome. Would this not create a slightly larger dia. and cause it to be tighter than before causing more stiction? Not sure if they strip the chrome but from what I have heard they coat over the top. But a set of works slider/tubes and shock shaft and body would reallybe some icing on the cake....
Who needs the aftermarket suspension tuners.....even though I did spend some $$$ on the FC parts I did save about $400.00 in labor.
DIY baby!!!!
Overall I give myself
(and also want to mention that the MRD pipe is a nice addition. I could totally feel a difference in the power. Snaps off the bottom and pulls harder in the mid-top. My top end will be going off to Ron shortly for a valve job and JE HC piston and the CrowerPower G2 cam from Josh. This is where the fun begins)
theDogger
179 posts
Location: California
Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:05 AM
It must be hard trying to ride a bike being that huge. I sugest you give up dirt bikles and get a gym pass. You might be the next Mr. Olympia.
1369 posts
Location: California
Posted 29 August 2006 - 08:20 AM
You must be one of those vertically challenged who have to buy those special dress shoes with the added rise. Must be tough coming up short all the time.
Here these may help you!
Incresing Shoes
Hey no pun intended...but remember it is always better to get pissed off! Not Pissed ON!
Don't need the GYM pass that is what got me this big in the 1st place. I spent 10 yrs of my life playing professional B-Bal in europe. Considering I have been retired for 4 yrs now and only gained 15 lbs of lazy guy fat I only carry 13% body fat. But I am working on dropping weight. During the down time of the bike I hit the gym and cleaned up my diet and dropped 10lbs. So now I am a trim 272lbs and still dropping weight. Goal is 265!
theDogger
Here these may help you!
Incresing Shoes
Hey no pun intended...but remember it is always better to get pissed off! Not Pissed ON!
Quote
It must be hard trying to ride a bike being that huge. I sugest you give up dirt bikles and get a gym pass. You might be the next Mr. Olympia.
Don't need the GYM pass that is what got me this big in the 1st place. I spent 10 yrs of my life playing professional B-Bal in europe. Considering I have been retired for 4 yrs now and only gained 15 lbs of lazy guy fat I only carry 13% body fat. But I am working on dropping weight. During the down time of the bike I hit the gym and cleaned up my diet and dropped 10lbs. So now I am a trim 272lbs and still dropping weight. Goal is 265!
theDogger
716 posts
Location: California
Posted 29 August 2006 - 09:27 AM
theDogger said:
Here is a list of what you'll need to buy:
ProCircuit PC-03 seal-oring grease $10.00
Cartridge Rod Holding Tool $20.00 or you can use a 13mm wrench
Fork Cap Wrench (Motion Pro) $20.00
Shock Seal Bullet $15.00
Nitro re-charge $20-$35 (depents on the local shop)
Fork Seal Tool $60 (you can make one out of PVC. The Showa stuff goes in easy)
You a quick tip for the "do it yourselfer"
If you have an off-road shop near by try them out on the nitrogen re-charge. They do shocks all the time & probably won't charge more than $5. Well maybe just a six pack or something.
1369 posts
Location: California
Posted 29 August 2006 - 09:42 AM
I agree.....after I posted that the local shop here Motion Sports filled it for $5.00
theDogger
theDogger
14082 posts
Location: California
Posted 29 August 2006 - 09:56 AM
The shop around the corner from me charged my shock for free. I know the guy but still...it only took about 8 seconds and most of that was twisting the valve on top of the tank...
716 posts
Location: California
Posted 29 August 2006 - 10:43 AM
theDogger said:
I agree.....after the I posted that the local shop here Motion Sports filled it for $5.00
theDogger
theDogger
For sure, & keep the cash for tires!
16 posts
Location: British Columbia
Posted 01 September 2006 - 04:11 PM
This is a very impressive thread. Thanks for keeping us in the loop! If I need to revalve my soon-to-be new '07 CRF450 then I will be studying this thread a bit more intently. I'm a bit of a DIYer myself as I just hate paying people to do work that I am perfectly capable of doing!
Thanks.
Thanks.
1369 posts
Location: California
Posted 01 September 2006 - 05:32 PM
Finally someone who gets it and is not a lazy a$$!!!!!!
theDogger
theDogger
4061 posts
Location: Connecticut
Posted 01 September 2006 - 06:50 PM
Maybe a stupid question but... how did you find the recipe for the shim stack- is this something that one can come up with himself. Is there a sort of formula that you use to acheive what you want. This is a tremendous post Dogger and you make it seem like it is not the magic that you need to send away for like I did. I doubt I will send my suspension again. Now I just need to know where to get the info. so that I can taylor the stacks to what I want to do (plusher on top with the same control I now enjoy from the revalve).
716 posts
Location: California
Posted 01 September 2006 - 06:55 PM
Its not that I'me lazy. It just that I don't want to be micro-manager. Letting people do what they specialize in gives me more time to do what I specialize in. Everything comes down to time & money. If your time is valuable ,as is everybodies these days, then why not utilize some time saving things. It is one thing to learn just for the knowledge of it or that you may try to make a little extra cash on the side but I don't see the benefit of spending all those hrs learning just to do every bike you personally own. In off road racing the engines, trans, & shocks all go to the appropriate shop. If the prep shop tried to do all these things then there would be no time for racing. I'm not trying to disagree with you I'm just giving you my 2cents.
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