New cylinder, almost new rings?


12 replies to this topic
  • DSTerry

Posted May 30, 2006 - 02:36 PM

#1

I just wanted to get the opinion of others.

I will be installing a freshly honed cylinder on my bike and was wondering if anyone would ever think about using rings that have around 100 miles on them.

I was going to buy new ones to install with the new cylinder, but a guy a work suggested I just use the ones I just installed into my old cylinder which have about 100 miles on them. I don't know enough about how quickly the rings break in, or if they wear to the old cylinder and won't seat properly to the new cylinder. The old cylinder is out of round at the top (and out of spec in the X direction).

But if people suggest I just use the 100mi old rings on this cylinder then I'll save myself $50 bucks. Otherwise I'll just buy new ones like I had orignally planned.

Thanks.

  • jamestoo

Posted May 30, 2006 - 02:50 PM

#2

Personally i'd go with new at $50 it wont make a massive difference and you'll have piece of mind! :applause:

  • cleonard

Posted May 30, 2006 - 03:23 PM

#3

I'd be very temped to try it. If they don't seal then it's a new set of rings and another hone job. Poorly sealed rings tend to announce themselves with lack of power, oil out of the breather tube, etc.

Correct technique is important. I had a hard time doing this, but it did work for me. Put it together dry. Start it and let it run for only a little bit, to check that it works. The go and ride it. Not easy, but no long high rpm runs. I broke mine in by doing an hour of repetitive hill climbs on a small 150 foot (or so) steep hill. Bike had so much more juice with the new rings that I fried the clutch that day.

  • creeky

Posted May 30, 2006 - 03:36 PM

#4

If those rings were used in the old worn out bore, I would definitely use new ones, $50 is pretty cheap insurance.

  • Jon-D

Posted May 30, 2006 - 05:31 PM

#5

[quote name='cleonard']Correct technique is important. I had a hard time doing this, but it did work for me. Put it together dry. Start it and let it run for only a little bit, to check that it works. The go and ride it. Not easy, but no long high rpm runs. I broke mine in by doing an hour of repetitive hill climbs on a small 150 foot (or so) steep hill.QUOTE]

I know that dry assembly works for you but I really don’t understand it. I had a KX250 that I have rebuilt many times, and at first I would put it together and break it in much like you described above. someone suggested to use 2 stroke oil when assembling and the result would be better break-in and wear. when I used oil during assembly, I did notice that my bike would go longer between rebuilds and the piston looked better indicating that lubing the parts up before assembly was better then not lubing them. perhaps breaking in a 2 smoke compared to a 4 stroke is different, but can you explain it technically so that I can understand why no lube is better then lube?

  • frankstr

Posted May 31, 2006 - 06:04 AM

#6

Give your self a peace of mind...new rings.... :applause:

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  • DSTerry

Posted May 31, 2006 - 08:39 AM

#7

Thanks. I'll definitely change the rings.

Now what about gaskets. I will for sure replace the head gasket. What should I expect from the cylinder base gasket, and the valve cover gasket after about 100 miles of riding. I don't remember if the base gasket was a compresion gasket or not. If it is I'll change that to. But the head gasket was just a paper gasket. Do those usually tear apart after they are installed and ridden for a little while?

  • creeky

Posted May 31, 2006 - 08:58 AM

#8

Thanks. I'll definitely change the rings.

Now what about gaskets. I will for sure replace the head gasket. What should I expect from the cylinder base gasket, and the valve cover gasket after about 100 miles of riding. I don't remember if the base gasket was a compresion gasket or not. If it is I'll change that to. But the head gasket was just a paper gasket. Do those usually tear apart after they are installed and ridden for a little while?


Replace all the gaskets, it's not worth risking a leak.

  • cleonard

Posted May 31, 2006 - 09:24 AM

#9

I know that dry assembly works for you but I really don’t understand it. I had a KX250 that I have rebuilt many times, and at first I would put it together and break it in much like you described above. someone suggested to use 2 stroke oil when assembling and the result would be better break-in and wear. when I used oil during assembly, I did notice that my bike would go longer between rebuilds and the piston looked better indicating that lubing the parts up before assembly was better then not lubing them. perhaps breaking in a 2 smoke compared to a 4 stroke is different, but can you explain it technically so that I can understand why no lube is better then lube?


It was almost impossible for me to put it together dry. Sort of went against everything I thought that I knew. I don't think it applies to 2 strokes. I have only done it that way once. The results were good. I only did it after reading about it here on TT and on numerous other bike sites. I found a site from a sport bike engine builder that went on and on about it. I doubt it's best for long term longevity. The main benefit is quick ring seating. I bet most of the ring seating happens in the first few hundred revs of the motor, before the oil gets in there.

  • cleonard

Posted May 31, 2006 - 09:32 AM

#10

Now what about gaskets. I will for sure replace the head gasket. What should I expect from the cylinder base gasket, and the valve cover gasket after about 100 miles of riding. I don't remember if the base gasket was a compresion gasket or not. If it is I'll change that to. But the head gasket was just a paper gasket. Do those usually tear apart after they are installed and ridden for a little while?


If you used OEM gaskets, they will most likely tear when you take the engine apart. Even if they tear ,they can be reused, but I normally replace a torn gasket. I used aftermarket gaskets that did not have the glue on them. I put a very thin coating of silicone on them. If you are careful they will come apart easily and in one piece. I have reused them many times, by rubbing off the old silicone, and applying a new thin layer. I have never had a gasket leak with this method. That main reason for me to use aftermarket gaskets is the ease of removal. When I rebuilt my engine, I spent more time scraping off those old gaskets than anything else. It was a major pain in the rear.

I don't like the aftermarket head gaskets. I always go with a Honda one. I know that it's no good practice, but I have reused them. As the XR600 is an air cooled motor, a leak will not normally ruin the engine like it does on a water cooled engine. No silicone on the head gasket!

  • xr500_89

Posted May 31, 2006 - 11:30 AM

#11

Personally i'd go with new at $50 it wont make a massive difference and you'll have piece of mind! :applause:

damn 50 bucks my whole piston kit was likw 110 bucks

  • jamestoo

Posted May 31, 2006 - 02:07 PM

#12

Your call man! :applause:

  • DSTerry

Posted May 31, 2006 - 04:17 PM

#13

I'll get new head and base gaskets. I'll check the valve cover gasket. It might be ok since it was not an OEM gasket and I did not use any silicone on it. I ended up using the K&S gasket kit when I rebuilt my motor and I was very happy with the quality and fit. No leaks at all so far. The reason I used the K&S gaskets was because the copper compression gaskets looked just like the OEM gaskets. The only problem with the K&S gasket set was that the oil pump tube (behind the right side case) o-rings were not to spec. So I had to purchase 2 new o-rings from honda that actually fit.

Thanks for the information. When I started adding up the cost of all the individual components, it made me think of what I really need to replace. But I'll just do this cylinder and ring swap like I originally intended to, not taking any shortcuts trying to save a few bucks!





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