heavier springs?


17 replies to this topic
  • DGIRT

Posted May 30, 2006 - 09:51 AM

#1

Has anyone put heavier springs on the 06 450 without having it revalved. I run about 240 in my street meats. I really don't have the money to revalve it right now, but need the heavier springs. :applause:

  • grayracer513

Posted May 30, 2006 - 09:55 AM

#2

The stock valving with the right springs will be far better than the best revalve with springs as far from right as the stock ones are for you.

  • Wheel

Posted May 30, 2006 - 11:30 AM

#3

Agreed. Although there is some overlap, springs hold up the weight of the bike and rider. Valving controls suspension movement. There is no way that ANY valving can work properly if you don't have the right springs. At your weight, you definately need to change springs.

  • jamiehughes

Posted May 30, 2006 - 08:39 PM

#4

i think that some people say you need to revalve just to get you to spend your money. i have an 06 yz450f and i just put heavier springs in front and back (i weight 330) so you can see it was pretty necessary. go to (www.racetech.com) they have a program that lets you key in your weight and what kind of riding you do and it will tell you what spring you should get. i have bought springs from them since 97 and have only had one problem with a fork spring, which they handled immediately. i think that if you are fast enough to need to have your valving changed you wouldn't have to be asking this question..(not meant to be mean). springs will make a huge difference and make you feel much more comfortable on the track and when trying to clear new obsticales. i just got my 06 on sat may 20th. i set the sag with stock springs and rode all weekend and didnt have to many problems except when messing up a jump, i ordered my springs sun eve and had them thurs afternoon and installed by thurs eve.. rode this weekend and all i can say is what a machine.. i cant believe that i stayed on a 2 stroke for so long... it'll cost you about $230 total for front and back springs. also fyi you might get some new fork oil as mine after just one weekend looked like used motor oil already.. i used the pro circut inverted fork oil and it seems to work perfect. you will only need one quart as when i dumped out the top part of the fork only about 340cc came out of that chamber, and to change the springs you really don't lose any oil elsewhere. good riding and let me know how it works.

  • DGIRT

Posted May 31, 2006 - 02:25 AM

#5

I liked the suspension when it was new and not broke in. I order the springs last night and fork seals, the right side is leaking. How oil all together in each leg?

  • jamiehughes

Posted May 31, 2006 - 04:11 AM

#6

of course you liked it when it was new, everything was stiffer until the forks got broke in.i still think that to change the seal you will only need like 365 cc of oil. just pour out what is in there and measure it. the manual also tells you how much and how to measure it if needed. you'll like it again with stiffer sprngs..

  • aford541

Posted May 31, 2006 - 10:02 PM

#7

The stock valving with the right springs will be far better than the best revalve with springs as far from right as the stock ones are for you.


I disagree with gray for once.
the rebound forces alone will create the need for more rebound resistance (re-valve)

If you have a 200 PSI spring and you drop a 200 pound weight on it it will bottom to coil bind the dampening will control the speed of the force that is trying to bottom the suspension.

Springs control the ride height.

If you set a 240 pound dude on the stock YZ you will need a stiffer spring and dampening in the fork to get the bike to feel like its not diving when you chop the throttle especially if you are aggressive on the front brake and ride more SX type tracks.

The shock is different, you can "preload" the shock to trick it into feeling stiffer, springs are rated by compressing the spring a predetermined amount.

PP-SI Pounds per square inch so if you compress it another inch the spring rate is higher.

so if you preload it another inch you may get the ride height you are after but the moment you chop the gas the rear spring tops out and reduces the head angle which may create head shake because the static rate is higher than what is recommended for the geometry of the rear suspension.

case and point I ran a .48 fork spring and a 6.0 on my 05 and it turned great, on the 06 I have a .50 and the same 6.0 but ENZO recommended a 6.2 for my fat a$$
The preload on the rear shock could no longer over come the fork spring rate so in tight ruts I really had to enter the corner aggressively, hard on the brake to get the bike to turn on the front wheel well.
The thing is if you make a mistake you better have the best suspension or else, have a pro re-valve your suspension I use ENZO religiously, those dudes have saved my butt too many times, they do all the testing foe Yamaha of troy, if they can't figure out your suspension no one can.
tell Jacqueline Adam Said hi 714-541-5218

  • MotoXman

Posted May 31, 2006 - 11:03 PM

#8

:applause: aford541
How much do you weigh? I weigh 240lbs and just got a 6.0 rear and .50`s front. Hopefully this is the correct spring rate? I think the stock valving should be fine if I slow the rebound down a little to make up for the new rates. What do you think? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

  • Budlite

Posted June 01, 2006 - 05:32 AM

#9

Listen to aford541. There is not enough rebound damping in the forks or the shock for the stock springs let alone stiffer ones. Lot's of luck if you get in over your head. As far as the outer fluid turning black this is true. It takes about an hour of riding to turn it black.

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  • bg10459

Posted June 01, 2006 - 06:43 AM

#10

I disagree with gray for once.

While I see your point; the need for re-valving with the heavier springs, I also see Grays point. Are you saying this guy would be better off getting a re-valve on the stock springs than proper springs on the stock valving? I have heavier springs on the stock valving and it's definitely better than before. Maybe I'm not good enough to feel the need for valving yet :applause: , but cost seems to be an issue here. Of course we all want the best, but I'm not riding an '06 either.
I agree with gray in that this guy will see some benefit from heavier springs rather than nothing or spending more than double the cost of springs on valving alone.

  • DGIRT

Posted June 01, 2006 - 07:22 AM

#11

I ordered the springs and should have them this Friday. If I need a re-valve I'll get it later. I have put heavier springs in before on other bikes and did not get the wallowing feel that the lighter springs have had.
I was just wondering if someone had put on the heavier springs without the re-valve work that might do some MX racing. I run 30&40 plus and stay in around the top 5. But feel the suspension is holding back in some area's of the track.

  • KTMKarl

Posted June 01, 2006 - 09:19 AM

#12

I weigh 235, A-class woods racer, I bought springs for my weight and it definetly was not a good move without a revalve. Stock was noticably more controlable even though it rode too far into the stroke for my liking the inability to crank enough rebound in the forks with the springs was unacceptable for me. I ended up all the way in on the forks and only about 2 out on the shock. the shock was tolerable but I gave up a lot of low speed plushness and traction to get the highspeed rebound to an acceptable level. The forks just wouldn't come around no matter what, I'm a stand-up rider so I rely heavily on my fork set-up and a revalve was the only way to fix it for me.

PS: I used Stone Works out of Blue Springs Missouri, Doug stone is an ex-pro MX'r and one hell of a woods rider as well. He listened to what I wanted and delivered! Very happy with his work He may be a little backed-up with requests from time to time but if your interested PM me and I'll check for ya, he's a little picky about doing the stuff for just anyone.

  • aford541

Posted June 01, 2006 - 12:18 PM

#13

:applause: aford541
How much do you weigh? I weigh 240lbs and just got a 6.0 rear and .50`s front. Hopefully this is the correct spring rate? I think the stock valving should be fine if I slow the rebound down a little to make up for the new rates. What do you think? Any help would be greatly appreciated.


I'm a boat anchor I'm at least 245.
Please do the suspension the right way, look at it this way you have a 7,000 bike that you won't be able to ride if you auger in because you wanted to save a few hundred bucks on suspension, it's totally worth it if it keeps you off the ground!

  • jamiehughes

Posted June 01, 2006 - 08:33 PM

#14

SPRINGS, SPRINGS, SPRINGS!!!!! then worry about valving. afetr i put my heavier springs in my 06 i was able to actually back the top clickers off 3 click from factory to get the plushness back.. steers into corners just like it did a week ago with stock springs. i guess it's just different strokes for different folks. i just didnt feel the need to spend another $250 or more on valving. what would happen if i actually lost some weight :applause: think of the potential problems i could have. and if you dont like the springs you can just take them out and change them. revalving might be a tad bit tougher to change back yourself. you can also adjust your oil height to change how it feels. the yamaha manual even tells you how much to change it to do different things..

  • aford541

Posted June 01, 2006 - 10:05 PM

#15

SPRINGS, SPRINGS, SPRINGS!!!!! then worry about valving. afetr i put my heavier springs in my 06 i was able to actually back the top clickers off 3 click from factory to get the plushness back.. steers into corners just like it did a week ago with stock springs. i guess it's just different strokes for different folks. i just didnt feel the need to spend another $250 or more on valving. what would happen if i actually lost some weight :applause: think of the potential problems i could have. and if you dont like the springs you can just take them out and change them. revalving might be a tad bit tougher to change back yourself. you can also adjust your oil height to change how it feels. the yamaha manual even tells you how much to change it to do different things..


That is because your suspension ride height was in the bottom third of the travel which has inherently stiffer dampening to avoid bottoming.

  • jamiehughes

Posted June 02, 2006 - 03:54 AM

#16

works good for me...i guess right or wrong, if it feels good on the track over the bumps and the jumps i'm going with it.

  • MotoXman

Posted June 03, 2006 - 11:00 PM

#17

I got my 6.0 rear spring and .50`s fork springs in with pro 5wt silkolene fork oil installed tonight. I plan on riding it tommorow or next weekend so i`ll let you know how it feels without valving. We will see about the rebound on whether or not i can slow it down enough. I run it sort of fast on the rebound anyway. I run it enough to double or tripple the whoops at jakes 211 track in texas. If the rebound is too slow on this track it wont let me double the whoops and just wants to tap through them. Hopefully i am happy. If not i will just get the revalve.

  • black_n_blue_thumper

Posted June 04, 2006 - 09:43 AM

#18

I have been holding off on this one because of my lack of knowledge and experience in suspension. However, I can tell you this. I am about 290lbs. I ride no track at all. I do ride trail fairly hard but am definatley not fast. I hit alot of jumps in the trails and landing 30 footers is pretty common. I put new springs in my 06 that were correct for my fatness. I left stock valving in and put race tech oil in. When I say I did this I mean I paid to have this done by a Race Tech Dealer. I love the suspension. It is night and day better than stock for me. But wait. My best friend goes over 300 lbs. He has an 04 WR 450. He did the whole deal on his bike. Springs, Gold Valves and oil. He could not get front springs big enough according to the Race Tech calcualtor, but he did get close. He was able to get the correct rear. I absolutely love his setup. His WR feels so much better than my YZ landing jumps. It is alittle stiff for me when going fast down the trails, but still not too bad. It has me thinking that Gold Valves may be in order for me. I know there are alot of variables, like the clickers and such, but from everyone I have talked to they say my suspension should be far superior, so I conclude the gold valves are the difference. When I get the fun tokens saved up, I think I will do gold valves. :applause:





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