Mobil 1 Synthetic Motorcycle oil


15 replies to this topic
  • camaro345

Posted May 07, 2006 - 02:39 PM

#1

Has anyone used this new oil yet?? If so how do you like it? Also what viscosity would be better 10w40 or 20w50?? The bike is always in a heated garage so it never gets real cold for starting.

  • OlaGB

Posted May 07, 2006 - 08:45 PM

#2

I would use the mobile 1 mxt4 10-40 if i was chosing a new oil..

I have been riding with mobile 1 racing 10-60 the last months, and to be honest, i suspect that oil to be one of the reasons that my small rod bearing wore out fast.. That oil is so thick, that it does`nt work good enough under normal driving conditions.. (my bike is street legal, no racing here) I think its only for high temp-engine torturing racing..

IMO i would say 20-50 are to thick also..

  • spritefiend

Posted May 07, 2006 - 09:50 PM

#3

I would use the mobile 1 mxt4 10-40 if i was chosing a new oil..

I have been riding with mobile 1 racing 10-60 the last months, and to be honest, i suspect that oil to be one of the reasons that my small rod bearing wore out fast.. That oil is so thick, that it does`nt work good enough under normal driving conditions.. (my bike is street legal, no racing here) I think its only for high temp-engine torturing racing..

IMO i would say 20-50 are to thick also..


mx4t.. thats what i use in my r6, and what i plan to use after a few thou and switch to synth on my 06 wr450.

John.

  • grayracer513

Posted May 07, 2006 - 11:15 PM

#4

MX4T is one of the best oils you could use, although it's not new. I used it for quite a while and was very happy with it, apart from the price, and the sporadic availability in my area.

I have since switched to Amsoil Synthetic Motorcycle Oil (MCF) 10w-40 because I can mail order it in cases, save 35-40% over M1, and give up nothing in terms of lubrication performance. In fact, the MCF and MCV (the 20w-50 version) are the only two JASO MA oils I'm aware of that are labeled as API GL-1 gear oils in addition to the engine oil grading they carry, which pretty much eliminates any worries about their ability to hold up in a transmission.

There is also no reason not to use synthetics during breakin. I always have, and have had no problems whatever with it.

  • Vibeguy

Posted May 08, 2006 - 10:15 AM

#5

I have used Mobil 1 15w-50 red cap in all my bikes with excellent reliability. When Mobil replaced the 15w-50 red cap with the new Mobil 1 15w-50 Extended Performance I ran an analysis on both and they ARE the same oil. The Mobil MX4T motorcycle specific oil is the same as the above but with slightly higher levels of Phosphorus and Zinc (anti-wear additives) that you won't find in car oils because the can have adverse affects on a catalytic (sp?) converters.

I don't think you can go wrong with Amsoil products either but please be aware that their oils conform to JASO specifications but without the corresponding JASO ID/test number to go with the rating the oil did not actually undergo JASO testing.......which is expensive. Does that make it a less better oil? I don't think it does.

  • grayracer513

Posted May 08, 2006 - 02:39 PM

#6

One problem that YZF owners face is that the engine oil has to be able to survive in the transmission. With most "car oils", and even motorcycle engine oils not intended for use in a transmission, what will often happen is that the additives (Viscosity Index Improvers) that make a light, 10w base oil behave as a 10w-40 get physically destroyed by the shearing action of the gears in the trans, and in a remarkably short time (as little as 2 hours) some 10w-40's will be turned into something more like 10w-20's, and you'll have a lot less of an oil than you bargained for. There are VII's that have been formulated for use in multi-grade gear lubes which can also be used in engine oils. But, they cost more, and if your target market is a bunch of Fords and Chevys, you aren't going to bother.

So the question has long been whether oils like M1 Extended Performance and Shell Rotella, while they are undeniably excellent ENGINE oils, are capable of retaining their viscosity in a YZF gear box, even for the fairly short length of time that most of us use them for. I haven't seen the test that demonstrates that conclusively. It obviously is not impossible, but without some assurance, or your own UOA, how would you know?

This Test shows, on page 9, the results of the ASTM D-6278 Shear Stability test run on the two new Amsoil products and 24 other oils. Regrettably, in a way, these were all motorcycle specialty oils. I would like to have seen how some of the better automotive synthetics stacked up. Nevertheless, you can see from this that MX4T, V-Twin, and the Amsoil oils, along with only a few others, held up very well through the test, while others fell well into the grade below their labeling very quickly.

Shear stability is only one characteristic of a good oil, but of all of them, it's the one most commonly missing from automotive oils.

  • WRider995

Posted May 08, 2006 - 09:00 PM

#7

I thought this was well thought out, with helpful info from a knowledgable person. And I was expecting another humdrum debate it to death oil thread. Learn something new everyday....

One problem that YZF owners face is that the engine oil has to be able to survive in the transmission. With most "car oils", and even motorcycle engine oils not intended for use in a transmission, what will often happen is that the additives (Viscosity Index Improvers) that make a light, 10w base oil behave as a 10w-40 get physically destroyed by the shearing action of the gears in the trans, and in a remarkably short time (as little as 2 hours) some 10w-40's will be turned into something more like 10w-20's, and you'll have a lot less of an oil than you bargained for. There are VII's that have been formulated for use in multi-grade gear lubes which can also be used in engine oils. But, they cost more, and if your target market is a bunch of Fords and Chevys, you aren't going to bother.

So the question has long been whether oils like M1 Extended Performance and Shell Rotella, while they are undeniably excellent ENGINE oils, are capable of retaining their viscosity in a YZF gear box, even for the fairly short length of time that most of us use them for. I haven't seen the test that demonstrates that conclusively. It obviously is not impossible, but without some assurance, or your own UOA, how would you know?

This Test shows, on page 9, the results of the ASTM D-6278 Shear Stability test run on the two new Amsoil products and 24 other oils. Regrettably, in a way, these were all motorcycle specialty oils. I would like to have seen how some of the better automotive synthetics stacked up. Nevertheless, you can see from this that MX4T, V-Twin, and the Amsoil oils, along with only a few others, held up very well through the test, while others fell well into the grade below their labeling very quickly.

Shear stability is only one characteristic of a good oil, but of all of them, it's the one most commonly missing from automotive oils.



  • 5hauler

Posted May 09, 2006 - 06:27 AM

#8

You can use diesel oil in our bikes. I run Shell Rotella t 15-40. Talked to shell engineers about meeting the motorcycle jaso standard ( I think thats the name ) He said it does not pass, as the standard is 1.2% ash and the Rotella has 1.3% but they feel it wont matter. The diesel oil also has lots of zinc which is a high shear and pressure additive used only in diesel oil. Used to be in car oil but thanks to the EPA it now mostly gone. The zinc is real good for the tranny and our engines dont care if its there or not. No diesel oil is energy conserving , that I know of, so no clutch issue. I run it in my 7 bikes I have now and lots of bikes in the past. Most of my riding buddies have also converted over.
Jay

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • 06WR450FSM

Posted May 09, 2006 - 09:58 AM

#9

You can use diesel oil in our bikes. I run Shell Rotella t 15-40. Talked to shell engineers about meeting the motorcycle jaso standard ( I think thats the name ) He said it does not pass, as the standard is 1.2% ash and the Rotella has 1.3% but they feel it wont matter. The diesel oil also has lots of zinc which is a high shear and pressure additive used only in diesel oil. Used to be in car oil but thanks to the EPA it now mostly gone. The zinc is real good for the tranny and our engines dont care if its there or not. No diesel oil is energy conserving , that I know of, so no clutch issue. I run it in my 7 bikes I have now and lots of bikes in the past. Most of my riding buddies have also converted over.
Jay


Good to see another HDEO user :crazy:

Check out this site: http://theoildrop.se.../ultimatebb.cgi

Diesel engine oils are designed for extended service under high stress conditions and are wet-clutch compatible. Excellent protection - just keep your oil changed no matter what you choose.

I used to use MX4T at $8/qt, but have switched to a 1:3 blend of Mobil1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 and Mobil Delvac 1300S 15W-40 at $3/qt.

The only way to know how good your oil is holding up is to do a Used Oil Analysis. :ride:

  • grayracer513

Posted May 09, 2006 - 12:41 PM

#10

Commercial grade (API C*) oils are mostly equivalent to or better than SG/SH oils, whether they are labeled as such or not, because they happen to have several overlapping requirements to meet those grades. That does generally mean that the content of the better boundary lubricants (zinc and phosphorus compounds) will be higher than found in SJ or SL oils. They are almost never ECII, either, so they will generally be clutch friendly. They certainly lube well, and are very durable as engine lubricants.

However, the shear stability question remains open, and Shell themselves has said that their Rotella T Syn 0w-40 (available in Canada) was not, in their opinion, shear stable enough to be used in a motorcycle engine sharing oil with its transmission. I know that a lot of people are using Rotella T Syn 5w-40, and the conventional based 15w-40, and are doing so successfully, but that still doesn't answer the question as to how well they retain their viscosity in high shear situations. If someone has that information, I'm interested.

UOA's are, of course, useful, but it's well to keep them in context while reviewing the results. When oil is subjected to a specific lab test, the results tell you about one particular characteristic of the oil's performance, like the D-6278 shear test, for example. Looking at a UOA, on the other hand, is like sending the same oil sample through an entire battery of tests, each of an uncontrolled nature, and analyzing it once afterward. If an oil is out of grade, did it shear down, or did it get diluted by contaminants? Sometimes it's hard to tell.

  • ncmountainman

Posted May 10, 2006 - 04:27 AM

#11

the way i get it is the more difference between the multi-grade rating the less shear stable the oil is. back when i was a heavy equipment mechanic,i was ASE certified for detroit engines and my job was to care for the vehicles with those engines. i forget the exact oil change intervals for the OTR trucks but i believe it was around 15-20k miles. and 100 hrs or so for the other equipment(loaders,trackhoes and such) anyway what i'm getting at is they predominantly used either delo or rotella 15-40 with no oil induced failures, and if anyones ever seen the timing gears on a V series detroit i can honestly say that at least the 15-40 is safe to use in a motorcycle trans. :crazy:

  • grayracer513

Posted May 10, 2006 - 08:58 AM

#12

the way i get it is the more difference between the multi-grade rating the less shear stable the oil is.

That's a good indicator, within limits. One of the things a wider range between the low temp and high temp viscosities means is that the oil has more VII additives than one with a narrower range. Since the VII's are usually the weak link in the viscosity picture, the more VII's you have, the more likely it would be that your oil would shear down.

But that only applies when you're comparing oils with the same or similar base stocks. One of the characteristics of an oil is its Viscosity index, which is a measure of how much an oil thins out as it heats up. The higher the number, the less it thins, and the more it acts like a multi-grade oil. Most good synthetic base oils have higher VI's than the best conventional oils do, and so would need fewer VII's to arrive at a 4:1 viscosity range (like a 10w-40) than a conventional petro oil would. Logically, this means that a synthetic 10w-40 is probably less likely to shear out of grade quickly than a dino 10w-40.

But even that doesn't answer the question entirely, because it isn't evident what kind of VII's were used in the blend. If both oils use the typical automotive grade additives, you can compare them directly. But if one uses the tougher commercial grade VII's, or the even more durable ones intended for gear oils, the comparison no longer works.

...they predominantly used either delo or rotella 15-40 with no oil induced failures, and if anyones ever seen the timing gears on a V series detroit i can honestly say that at least the 15-40 is safe to use in a motorcycle trans. :crazy:

You may very well be right. In fact, you probably are right. But, without test data, you're still speculating.

  • Numskull

Posted May 10, 2006 - 04:58 PM

#13

This Test the one most commonly missing from automotive oils.


I don't have adobe right now, but I suspect thats the same graphs I seen before from amsoil. I'm always a little skeptical when a company performs there own tests. Its kinda strange if you look close at the graph, how the amsoil actually increases slightly from shear where everyone else plummets.(looks like the graphs have been altered :banana: )


I changed my yamalube 20/50 the other day at 150 miles, and it was showing significant signs of viscosity break down and was already a good brown color. I had very little metal shavings in my filter(maybe 2). What ever the oil bran you choose, I suggest frequent oil changes :ride:

  • Jim X

Posted May 10, 2006 - 05:21 PM

#14

Grayracer, where do you buy your oil from? If you don't mind me asking. I like the sound of 30%-40% off.

  • txfour

Posted May 14, 2006 - 12:08 PM

#15

I'm always a little skeptical when a company performs there own tests.

(looks like the graphs have been altered :ride: )


Numskull - I am an Amsoil dealer and would like to defend your statement. The study that was attached is a legitamate study and has a signed afidavit as to it's truthfulness.

As for alterations, I am also a Chemist and have been in the proffessional world as such for 12 years now and I can tell you that sometimes the data has "noise" in it and it may be just that. The data you are reffering to only has a range of .02 CST @ 100C. That is a very very narrow range and hardly anything to be alarmed about.

  • txfour

Posted May 14, 2006 - 12:17 PM

#16

Grayracer, where do you buy your oil from? If you don't mind me asking. I like the sound of 30%-40% off.


Get on line and hook up with an Amsoil dealer. I they care about you at all they can save you allot of money.




 
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