Any good cures for the XR650R "push"??


24 replies to this topic
  • motochris

Posted May 02, 2006 - 10:30 AM

#1

Raced my 650 again last weekend. Whenever I'm play riding, the front end push isn't real bad. Whenever I race though is a different story. Front ends pushes all over in the loose stuff. Could be I'm used to my KTM, but I'm thinking the 650 just has a push.
I'm sure someone here has attempted to cure this. What's working?

  • JimT

Posted May 02, 2006 - 11:03 AM

#2

I would say that this is due to the forks being way too soft, so the front end dives when you turn, causing it to push.

  • motochris

Posted May 02, 2006 - 11:35 AM

#3

I'm resprung and revalved F&R.

  • Chaparral Kid

Posted May 02, 2006 - 11:39 AM

#4

Have precison concepts do your suspension for desert and learn to stay on the back tire and slide/steer with it a little more. :ride: revalve is a must :crazy:

  • motochris

Posted May 02, 2006 - 11:46 AM

#5

Just what I need.....advice from a refridgerator magnet salesman. :crazy:

  • ThunderChicken

Posted May 02, 2006 - 12:31 PM

#6

There's "dive" and there's "push" with the XR.

It sounds like you have done what you can to cure the "dive and curl under you" effect. However, one place to look is at the tire you're running up front. I ran the D742F for the last couple of years but found that it was too soft and flexy. I actually hate that tire more than the stock front.

On a whim I tried the D952 (the "value priced" dunlop) and am totally convinced that this is the best front tire for the XR. It has a lot of sidewall and seems to have a better footprint than the 742F. I almost feel like I'm riding on a 20 inch front wheel with the D952.

I think that playing with your front tire will solve your dive and curl issues, if you have them.


The "push" is purely from riding technique and you basically explained why you experience pushing while racing and not while play riding.

Riding the XR is like driving a boat. Boats don't respond to direct input. You essentially "pilot" the boat in the general direction you want to go. The big XR is the same. The pushing feedback you get while racing, and not while play riding, is the differece between being nervious and tight and forcing things while in a race, and being laid back while on a play ride.

Like chaparal kid said, work on riding the bike more with the rear wheel. Learn how to make every turn a flattrack style sweeper. Let the little kids in the 200 class make knifing SX style turns... get off the ribbon in a turn and arch it wide. Learn how to anticipate turns sooner so you can setup earlier than those you are racing against.

The key with the "push" is to be like the horse whisperer except, in our case, it's the XR650R whisperer.

  • motochris

Posted May 02, 2006 - 12:55 PM

#7

There's "dive" and there's "push" with the XR.

It sounds like you have done what you can to cure the "dive and curl under you" effect. However, one place to look is at the tire you're running up front. I ran the D742F for the last couple of years but found that it was too soft and flexy. I actually hate that tire more than the stock front.

On a whim I tried the D952 (the "value priced" dunlop) and am totally convinced that this is the best front tire for the XR. It has a lot of sidewall and seems to have a better footprint than the 742F. I almost feel like I'm riding on a 20 inch front wheel with the D952.

I think that playing with your front tire will solve your dive and curl issues, if you have them.


The "push" is purely from riding technique and you basically explained why you experience pushing while racing and not while play riding.

Riding the XR is like driving a boat. Boats don't respond to direct input. You essentially "pilot" the boat in the general direction you want to go. The big XR is the same. The pushing feedback you get while racing, and not while play riding, is the differece between being nervious and tight and forcing things while in a race, and being laid back while on a play ride.

Like chaparal kid said, work on riding the bike more with the rear wheel. Learn how to make every turn a flattrack style sweeper. Let the little kids in the 200 class make knifing SX style turns... get off the ribbon in a turn and arch it wide. Learn how to anticipate turns sooner so you can setup earlier than those you are racing against.

The key with the "push" is to be like the horse whisperer except, in our case, it's the XR650R whisperer.


The tire is a suspect for me as well. It's currently a Maxxis Desert IT. The IT doesn't work well on my KTM, so I suspect it may be part of the problem on the 650R as well. I'll give the D952 a try. On my KTM the 756 is the way to go.
I'm just so used to riding a bike that actually turns, it's hard to unlearn my normal turning technique. The race this weekend was a looped one, so I had plenty of chances to try different things on the same turns. Steering "with the rear" definetly works, but just isn't feasable in all situations. Trying to get the bike turned on an offcamber for instance, never did get it to work well.

  • TimBrp

Posted May 03, 2006 - 03:00 AM

#8

Typically KTM's don't turn, strange. Try a Pirelli MT-32F on the front. I think that would help. Also try raising the forks in the tripples 3mm-5mm and go from there.

  • Supplicate

Posted May 03, 2006 - 04:26 AM

#9

bleah... I've only ran one Desert IT front, and I won't ever run it again. Talk about inspiring -no- confidence in a turn. Though it did wear like iron :crazy:

  • motochris

Posted May 03, 2006 - 08:54 AM

#10

Typically KTM's don't turn, strange. Try a Pirelli MT-32F on the front. I think that would help. Also try raising the forks in the tripples 3mm-5mm and go from there.


I have to wait till my damper arrives to try raising the forks. Me no like headshake more than a front end push.
As far as the KTM turning....puhlease....it goes wherever it's pointed. It's no Suzuki, but it does do what it's told...unlike my 650R.

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  • TimBrp

Posted May 03, 2006 - 09:52 AM

#11

I have to wait till my damper arrives to try raising the forks. Me no like headshake more than a front end push.
As far as the KTM turning....puhlease....it goes wherever it's pointed. It's no Suzuki, but it does do what it's told...unlike my 650R.



Don't take my word for it Chris. I've just read alot of questions from people trying to get a better turning KTM.

  • motochris

Posted May 03, 2006 - 11:05 AM

#12

Don't take my word for it Chris. I've just read alot of questions from people trying to get a better turning KTM.


Yea, it could be better, but it still does fine. As long as you weight the front, it really has no issues. The 650 on the other hand......for me, getting further forward didn't help much. Scooting back didn't help much. Sliding the forks up may help. I'm thinking the front tire is a big contributor. Most people have all said the same thing...."Steer with the rear". That's basically saying you can't really make it turn well. I'll play with some things and see. I was just hoping someone had "the cure".

  • TimBrp

Posted May 03, 2006 - 11:13 AM

#13

There's no cure. She's front-end heavy. I think that would be the equivelant to a "Big Rack", LOL! Get an agressive tire on the front, raise the forks 5mm in the tripple, mount a stabilizer and go with it. She's always going to push more than other bikes, she's 'girthy'.

  • BWB63

Posted May 03, 2006 - 11:25 AM

#14

5mm fork tube hight, and race sag, fork spring shims, fluid weight. Like some have stated that where you are on the bike is the biggest contributer.

Having the suspension setup right is number one, 5mm from the bottom of the fork cap to the top of the triple clamp, Have your race sag between 3.75" and 4", 10~12 psi in the front tire for most dirt tires. Try a Pirelli MT18, or a MT410 front tire. 5mm of pre-load shim in the forks might help.

  • weskc35k

Posted May 03, 2006 - 05:40 PM

#15

http://www.off-road....001xr650finale/

  • Fordskin

Posted May 04, 2006 - 01:18 AM

#16

Yes i posted about this some time ago. I changed to a dunlop D742 from the stock IRC. This certainly improved it. Still though i feel all that power sliding power is being wasted by lack of front end grip. Its all about compromise.

  • 1Hondalover

Posted May 04, 2006 - 05:24 PM

#17

Precision Concepts definitely front and rear.

A 650 does not steer with the front, it steers with a slide.

Think outside the box for the front tire.......try a Bridgestone ED-11.

Works for me.

  • weskc35k

Posted May 05, 2006 - 09:44 PM

#18

Thunderchook i just might buy me a D952.
I got my best results with the forks flush with the top believe it or not,it's opposite to everything else i have owned.I think the xr is too front heavy with the forks raised,it feels better,lofts the front easier,lighter and steers better for me as i have stated.
I have a theory why the Baja boys of J.C. and S.H. run 92 or 94mm rear and i think it is to do with the extra inch of travel from the works forks,i'd say a lot of guys just follow their setup without thinking about this and end up getting some push because of it.J.C. and co run flush with the top or there about from what i can tell and with the 92 or 94mm rear they are at a different setting than us i'd say. I know they use a cr500 shock body but it is modified and is the same length as the xr shock.
I'm sure i will be enlightened if i'm way off base.

  • SANG

Posted May 08, 2006 - 12:19 PM

#19

Imo I own ktms, wr 450 ,and brp what helps most (after susp steup) is tire choice good tires such as pirelli mt 32/44 up front and a low profile rear tire keeps the back end down and makes steering quicker and less push jmo check it out.....

  • motochris

Posted May 08, 2006 - 01:28 PM

#20

I've got a Dunlop D952 coming tomorrow to try for the Baja 500 pre-run. We'll see how that does.





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