oil


12 replies to this topic
  • andy666

Posted May 01, 2006 - 02:02 PM

#1

How long did you wait until you switched over to synthetic oil .

  • hitech

Posted May 01, 2006 - 03:01 PM

#2

right after break in.

  • Matty05

Posted May 01, 2006 - 05:17 PM

#3

How long did you wait until you switched over to synthetic oil .

When I used up all my mineral oil that I got for break in.

  • andy666

Posted May 03, 2006 - 07:54 PM

#4

how many miles does it take to break the motor in I have 315 mils on mine now can I use synthetic oil now

  • Beejay

Posted May 03, 2006 - 08:54 PM

#5

Doesn't 100% synthetic affect clutch operation?.....slipping?

  • -Y-

Posted May 03, 2006 - 09:29 PM

#6

It is my opinion (such as it is) that you should not change to synthetic oil for about 2000 miles or after everything is sealed and seated. Some who also agree in the theory of this method say you only have to wait 1000 miles.

Whatever, if you are changing your oil regularly it is probably a waste of money to buy synthetic. Many shoot outs claim that non-synthetics with the right additives are just as good as synthetic oil. Others swear by synthetic oil.

It's a hotly debated topic. In the end if you are not racing and trying to get every last grunt out of your powerplant, you will never notice a difference.

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  • Deus ex Machina

Posted May 04, 2006 - 06:00 AM

#7

I have been riding and working on bikes for a good while and I agree that if your changing oil as it seems is reccomended for a dirt machine Syn may be a little excessive.

Getting to the Q at hand it does not take long to break in newer model motors, cars or bikes. In fact some cars now come with SYN from the factory. Your motor will be broken in after a few hundred miles at most. All this running your motor for anything over 750 miles comes from older technology when it actually did take a while for piston rings to seat. That just isn't the case anymore. With current piston ring technology rings seat very quickly. My opinion, if you have 300+ miles on your motor your way on the safe side for the switch to SYN. I will be changing far sooner than that.

FWIW ... do a search on piston rings and read up on some of the tech out there today and what is coming.

  • -Y-

Posted May 04, 2006 - 10:11 AM

#8

Getting to the Q at hand it does not take long to break in newer model motors, cars or bikes. In fact some cars now come with SYN from the factory. Your motor will be broken in after a few hundred miles at most. All this running your motor for anything over 750 miles comes from older technology when it actually did take a while for piston rings to seat. That just isn't the case anymore. With current piston ring technology rings seat very quickly. My opinion, if you have 300+ miles on your motor your way on the safe side for the switch to SYN. I will be changing far sooner than that.

FWIW ... do a search on piston rings and read up on some of the tech out there today and what is coming.


See opinions vary. Deus ex Machina makes some very valid points. I agree that technology has changed a great deal in the last 50+ years. Much of the soft breakin theories came from a time when our lubricants were poor and the metals used were from lower quality production methods. These days it is unnecessary to heat cycle your engine as at operating temperatures you never come close to reaching production temps.

All the true seating of the rings does happen in the first couple hundred miles. This why I recommend a hard break in from the start. But I disagree that the motor is completely broken in until about 2 thou miles :crazy: Older theories actually say 10,000+ miles before the rings are completely seated, and this is of course out dated to say the least. But I'm also quite willing to accept that I am a bit overly cautious.

Still, with the bomber modern engines they are making these days it really does not matter too much what oil you use or what breakin method you go for, with maintenance the bike will run long and reasonably hard. So do what you feel comfortable with and be safe and have fun on your bike. Spend money on riding training as well. Investment in skill is a mod you carry with you for life!

  • andy666

Posted May 04, 2006 - 11:20 AM

#9

Thanks for all the info i think ill stick with the oil im using for a while I change before very ride anyway.

  • Deus ex Machina

Posted May 04, 2006 - 01:27 PM

#10

See opinions vary


True, true. There are about as many differnet opinions on how to break-in a motor as there are different types of oil.

  • Dodjy

Posted May 04, 2006 - 06:30 PM

#11

I reckon the biggest factor in deciding to use mineral or synthetic is the type of riding you do. If you ride easy trials and never get your bike hot, use mineral and change often to flush out any particles. If you ride hard or often get stuck on hills and get the bike relatively hot, use synthetic and still change it often. Heat is a real killer for oil. Once mineral oil gets over temperature it breaks down and looses it's lubrication properties as well as burns and introduces carbon particles to the motor which wear it out. Synthetics will too but they have a higher break down temperature and some have better friction properties. Speaking generally of course.

  • Vibeguy

Posted May 06, 2006 - 05:26 PM

#12

I reckon the biggest factor in deciding to use mineral or synthetic is the type of riding you do. If you ride easy trials and never get your bike hot, use mineral and change often to flush out any particles. If you ride hard or often get stuck on hills and get the bike relatively hot, use synthetic and still change it often. Heat is a real killer for oil. Once mineral oil gets over temperature it breaks down and looses it's lubrication properties as well as burns and introduces carbon particles to the motor which wear it out. Synthetics will too but they have a higher break down temperature and some have better friction properties. Speaking generally of course.


On average mineral oils start to oxidize (heat breakdown) at 250 deg. Synthetic oils will go to 300 deg. F before they start to oxidize. Another item to consider is how often you ride, if you don't ride very often or get your oil hot enough to cook off the moisture your engine will makes condensation. Synthetics will hold twice the amount of water in emulsion than mineral oils can. Emulsified water is not near the problem that free water is.

I don't ride my 4 strokes that often so I use synthetic (Mobil 1 gold cap). One of the biggest oil myths out there is that synthetic oil will cause your clutch to slip. This is pure unadulterated BS.

  • Vibeguy

Posted May 07, 2006 - 07:20 AM

#13

Make sure the oil you use doesn't contain "Molybdenum Disulfide". That is the additive that will cause clutches to slip.


Clutches will tolerate a certain amount of Moly, all the Mobil 1 car and bike specific oils contain 80-90 ppm of moly and have been run for years in bikes with no clutch problems. Moly is an excellent EP or extreme pressure additive and can save gears in what is referred to as "boundary lubrication" situation.

Below is a link to an oil article done by Sport Rider, granted it is geared toward street bikes but is also an excellent source of oil info....if you are interested.

http://sportrider.co...h/146_0308_oil/




 
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