Needle check!



39 replies to this topic
  • Stefe9999

Posted October 18, 2001 - 04:42 AM

#21

Just to let you know I'm still out here. I have 2 needles on the way and will be testing them this weekend if they arrrive in time. EMP/EMN and a 160MJ.

During my rides last weekend, with my EKQ #3, with US pipe, and first ride after BK, sputtering wasn't too bad at constant rpm. It was there, but not as bad as before. I'm getting close!

Ran the europipe as well, but generally seemed down on power in comparison. I'll put up results soon.

  • LarryCO

Posted October 18, 2001 - 05:00 AM

#22

Stefe9999,
Please keep me posted on your CO jetting results. I'm trying to follow your lead on jetting...going to try your EKQ#3/158 main and see how it improves my very average current setup of DRR#3/155 main. Apparently, we have very similar bikes (uncorked/WR timing/grey wire), although I havent done the BK mod yet (this weekend maybe?)...

Not sure what part of CO you're in, but I'm planning on heading to Rampart at first light Sunday morning. If you're interested in riding, let me know. Same thing applies to you as well, Dougie...

Late

  • Scott_in_KC

Posted October 18, 2001 - 06:07 AM

#23

Cool. I'll drop the needle first(leaner) and see if it improves. Then go from there.

  • James_Dean

Posted October 18, 2001 - 06:52 AM

#24

Slow down, please.

Taffy is telling you to jet down and in your first test you were richening the pilot screw beyond anyone on the forum!

Was it lean or not? Was it running out of gas?

Fill up your tank and retest it checking for air leaks!

James

  • James_Dean

Posted October 18, 2001 - 06:53 AM

#25

I too have been known to forget which way the petcock goes for reserve. Posted Image


[This message has been edited by James Dean (edited October 18, 2001).]

  • Scott_in_KC

Posted October 18, 2001 - 07:23 AM

#26

James, I'll be testing at about 4pm central today. Yes, I've filled the tank and will warm it up good, and test again before I do anything...I promise. Posted Image I may have been tripping on the pilot screw deal, I did have it out 2 turns and it still ran as well as it did at 1 turn, maybe better. But, I didn't have enough time before dark to get much tweeking done. I will however, for my own curiousity, turn it in while the bike is running and see if I can get it to die or lean sputter, just to confirm that circuit is in the range it should be.

A buddy of mine has the YZ, 45 pilot 1.25 turns, 168 main, stock air jets, EJP #5(from the top). His needle is leaner correct? Roughly how many clip positions leaner is he than me? Just curious, since we're same town, same temp and he has YZ timing.

  • Taffy

Posted October 18, 2001 - 08:05 AM

#27

in the nicest possible way. don't talk, don't do anything else-just test the F#=#=-#=-0=#--0 thing and stop this thread from going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on.............

someof us are trying to help and you keep going around "will's house"

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[This message has been edited by Taffy (edited October 20, 2001).]

  • Woody426

Posted October 18, 2001 - 08:19 AM

#28

Scott in KC,

I found something this last weekend (by accident) that may be the cause to your idle hanging out. I was having a problem with sputtering at constant rpm. I thought that the decelleration valve could be having an impact on this problem. I deactivated this circuit by removing the spring from the behind the dime size cover on the left side of the carb. My sputtering did not stop but my idle characteristics changed greatly. My idle never returned the way i thought it should before, even w/45 pilot and 1-1/2 PS. Now it's great. Consistent idle all the time. When I chop the throttle going into a turn or berm it sets the bike into it like it should. No ill effects noticed anywhere. Please try this and see if you get the same results. It only takes about 5 min to try.

Woody

  • Scott_in_KC

Posted October 19, 2001 - 03:17 AM

#29

WOW!

FINALLY got out to test last night. Rode it like it was, still terrible. I first turned the pilot screw all the way closed, not only did it continue to run...it ran better. So went from 48 pilot back to 42, I don't have a 45. Ran much better, but still bad sputter in mid range. Next I went to clip #4 (from 5) and holy s#!t!! The thing just rips from bottom, through about what feels like 3/4 redline. Still has a "sputter" in the mid range at constant throttle. I ran out of light and had to pack up...I spent a little too much time riding than testing...it was too fun!

Weird thing, even that 42 I was able to turn all the way in and the bike would still run!! What's up? I've never had a bike that seemed so unresponsive to pilot screw tweeks, I know you can usually hear the idle raising & lowering, cutting out & running rich, etc. but not this one. Sometimes the idle would hang, sometimes not. The hanging idle improved a ton, with that clip adjustment. Maybe Woody is on to something. Now it did run/ride better with the 42, everything at idle was the same.

I'll get a 45 pilot to try and move on to clip #3. That last clip move got me light years! Thanks guys.

42 pilot 1.5 turns
170 main
ELN #4
100 paj
BK mod .5 sec.

  • Scott_in_KC

Posted October 19, 2001 - 06:29 AM

#30

Went to ELN clip #3 this morning...sputter is gone! Doesn't feel quite as explosive as it did at clip #4, but it's totally clean at steady throttle anywhere. Now that I've got the needle figured out, I'll go back and try the 48 pilot again at 1 turn and see if that improves things. The carb actually feels like a flat-slide now...very crisp. Before the BK mod, when the bike was warming up and just taken off choke, you didn't dare wick the throttle until you were ready to take off. It just bogged and felt numb. Now it's really snappy...twist/result...nice.

The idle is still really weird though, just doesn't seem to respond to the screw much at all? Sometimes it hangs slightly, sometimes not.

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  • Woody426

Posted October 19, 2001 - 08:06 AM

#31

Please take the spring out of the decel valve and see if the idle improves. I need verification that this is not just a coicidense on my bike.Plus it may fix yours...

Woody

  • James_Dean

Posted October 19, 2001 - 11:49 AM

#32

Good job Scott! Glad to hear you have things figured out. Clip #3 or #4 on yours is a leaner than I thought, Taffy had it right. Your reaction on clip #4 was what we were looking for. Posted Image

The hanging idle is probably lean. Maybe woody's suggestion is worth a try, its easy to do. There has also been a suggestion to block the O-ring passage on the same cover to deactivate this.(WR250F forum) Make sure the carb clamp is tight on the engine side.

  • Scott_in_KC

Posted October 19, 2001 - 11:58 AM

#33

Woody & JD,

What exactly does the valve do in regard to decelleration?

If this works, please don't call it the "Woody Mod". I can see all the posts now "Help with my woody please!" "Can't get a woody!" Posted Image

[This message has been edited by Scott in KC (edited October 19, 2001).]

  • James_Dean

Posted October 19, 2001 - 02:16 PM

#34

Its a vacuum operated gadget the YZ's don't have. Under deceleration it is supposed to do something good, emmisions wise. (richen or lean?, bypass normal circuits etc.) Could a high vacuum could mess it up and activate it at the wrong time?

I tried to evaluate it's operation but the passages weren't obvious and didn't want to break it poking around. Basically, there wasn't a problem on my bike with it so it was left alone.

  • Scott_in_KC

Posted October 19, 2001 - 03:23 PM

#35

Interesting the YZ's don't have this. I had no idea there was any difference at all other than jetting & needle. Hmmm, may have to ponder this some and investigate shutting this off. I guess the engine is always decellerating, in theory, whenever the throttle is chopped, whether there's load or not. Obviously the decel vacuum is going to be more sustained when you're riding it vs. sitting still. Perhaps like the accelerator pump duration that guys have reported all over the board, there are some of these decel valves that are not functioning quite the same from bike to bike???

  • Taffy

Posted October 19, 2001 - 10:24 PM

#36

thanks JD

good manners.

as KC now knows what he's doing and i'm no longer needed there'll be no need to give him advice on what he should do next.

Taffy

[This message has been edited by Taffy (edited October 20, 2001).]

  • Scott_in_KC

Posted October 20, 2001 - 05:52 AM

#37

..and where did you read above that I don't need any advice?

  • Scott_in_KC

Posted October 21, 2001 - 08:00 AM

#38

Okay, thanks to Woody I got that decel valve out of the way (see the other thread). Here's where I'm at

ELN #3
170 Main
42 pilot, 2.5 turns
100 paj
BK mod. .4 seconds

I did go back and try the 48 pilot, but it was too rich. The 42 is pretty far out, so looks like a 45 should do the trick (just don't have one).....or perhaps the 42 with th 75 PAJ???
The power is very crisp & sharp and lights up like a top fuel dragster in low-end & mid-range. Getting toward 3/4 of redline, it starts to fall off and it's time to shift. This may be YZ timing? Or main jet? I ride woods so this is not a huge concern. I have not had a chance yet to get out and run it at high rpm in 4th & 5th. So not sure yet how it's pulling under more load. ANY suggestions are welcome. Posted Image I'm getting fast at swapping jets now!

  • Scott_in_KC

Posted October 24, 2001 - 07:33 AM

#39

More testing yesterday. Temps & humidity up.

ELN #3 ...still.
170 Main

The 48 pilot/100 paj is just not the ticket with the YZ exhaust. 42/100 was good as posted above. 42/75 was even better. Still no 45 in hand, but 45/100 looks great.

I noticed a very slight sputter at constant throttle with all the tests today, nothing like clip #4, but a sputter none the less. Probably due to the warm/humid temps. I tried a 165 main for kicks and to my surprise it didn't really do anything too noticable, maybe slightly more crisp, but still that little sputter at steady throttle.

Here's where I ended, with bike running very acceptable.

ELN #3
165 mj
42 pj / 75 paj / 1.5 turns

Anyone know where an EJP is in relation to my ELN? Trying to compare to other local YZ riders jetting. Just feel like going to clip #2 is getting pretty lean on this needle or is it okay?


[This message has been edited by Scott in KC (edited October 24, 2001).]

  • jamracing

Posted October 25, 2001 - 07:40 AM

#40

OK, I got the wrong needle...
I got a EJP needle, and can't find any write-up about it. Can someone tell me what the hell it is?
Also, my bike seems to like the 175 main, but i'm seeing mucho people running 168 mains, and liking it too...

------------------
Josh
01' WR426
99' YZ400
87' FZR1000
Uh, like twist the throttle...




 
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