Your Guys Coolant Recipes


22 replies to this topic
  • MotoGoalie

Posted April 25, 2006 - 01:43 PM

#1

With our intermittent Search function running, I couldn't find a consensus at all except from some guys talking about Engine Ice, which I understand is Propylene Glycol and water 50% premixed alread for crazy jack.


So from googling around and such, it would seem the cheapest and best recipe for a coolant mix is

Distilled water ~75-80%
Ethylene Glycol based coolant ~ 20-25%
The ~ for Water Wetter to add to the mix.

Straight water doesn't sound like an option on our engines as magnesium, aluminum and iron are creating a corrosive enviroment with each other and the water pump seals need some type of lubrication. Though, pure water seems to have the best heat transfer capabilities.

Straight coolant doesn't transfer water very well from what I've read.

The manual says 50%, but that seems a bit heavy after boiling my bike over every ride and race last summer. I'm looking for the best most effective mix so that I dont' have to throw 400 bones at new radiators, which I don't have.

The 80/20 mix, raises the boil-over point, retains a majority of water's heat transfer ability along with the Water Wetter and maintains an antifreeze of less than below freezing and also provides lubrication.

Any other opinions?

  • Numskull

Posted April 25, 2006 - 03:22 PM

#2

Every thing you said makes perfect sense. I bet the 80/20 mix would dissipate more heat.

Ive read alot of bikes boiling over, I wonder why. I haven't had mine out in the summer yet so I guess ill wait and see.

Might want to pressure check your cap to make sure its not weak. Or it just might be the stock coolers just are not up to par :crazy:

  • barch88

Posted April 25, 2006 - 03:30 PM

#3

Is there coolant I can buy that is already pre-mixed and I can just through it in the bike and be good to go, instend of dealing with all these types of water and all that? Reason is, I think the house we just bought is Well-Water. Although Im sure I can get ahold of some distilled. Will the Engine Ice fall under this category?

Shouldn't we only have to fill our radiators once a year anyways (after winter sitting), unless there leaking...

  • Markopolo400

Posted April 25, 2006 - 03:46 PM

#4

Yes.

Engine ice is good stuff. It will cool engines down by 20 degrees from a 50/50 mix of coolant and water.

  • grayracer513

Posted April 25, 2006 - 03:58 PM

#5

I'm currently using Engine Ice, which, as you say is PG and water mixed at some ratio or other, in the 250F, and 40/60 EG/water (distilled, of course) in the 450. The 250F NEVER pukes coolant. The 450 does, but only when very aggravated.

My thoughts are:

You are correct in that:
> Water dissipates heat better than either EG or PG
> Water with a surfactant like Water Wetter is better
But, there's a trade off:
> EG/PG & water mixes boil at a much higher temperature.

So the trick, it seems to me, is to find a mix in the range of 50% water that contains enough Glycol to resist boiling while containing enough water to cool effectively.

I think that my next experiment is going to be Engine Ice mixed with extra water at about 80% EI/20% water, which would reduce EI to roughly 60/40 water/PG, and add a dash of Water Wetter for good measure.

I know I could use any PG coolant in place of Engine Ice, but I already have some, so I'll use that.

Then there's that Evans stuff....

  • racinteach

Posted April 25, 2006 - 06:25 PM

#6

you guys just fully mixed me up....

  • barch88

Posted April 25, 2006 - 08:12 PM

#7

My 450 pukes coolant, is that because I was using the stock jetting for my break in (lean), in hot, dusty conditions? Is it fine?

So Engine Ice, I can just put it in my bike and go, nothing else?

  • bg10459

Posted April 25, 2006 - 10:17 PM

#8

As stated above, water transfers heat better. My recipe is distilled water and water wetter (about 80/20) and just enough Prestone to prevent freezing in the winter. Works well for me. :crazy: :ride:

  • tmckeown

Posted April 25, 2006 - 11:15 PM

#9

Hi,

In wintertime 50% glycol 50% water, in summertime Battery water and Redlines Water Wetter.

Timo Mc

  • MotoGoalie

Posted April 26, 2006 - 05:33 AM

#10

I think there are two things to consider here, raising the boiling point of the liquid coolant in a pressurized system to above that of water is certainly a benefit of a mix of PG or EG with water no doubt, but I don't think that benefits the second part of this equation, the transfer of heat. Transfering heat is not the same as having a higher boiling point from what I understand.

From what I've been reading, water transfers heat better than any other liquid. So it grabs the heat and gives it up effectively. Any mix of PG or EG with water lowers that ability to some degree. I don't know if the Water Wetter is hooie or not, but I'd figure I'd give er a shot. I like the idea of PG not being toxic....I just had some Prestone laying around though.

My winter temps can get to -15'f here so I'll have to change my shorty mix by then but I have had times where I've nearly boiled the coolant in gnarly areas. It has a new rad cap, BTW.

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  • NOMADAK

Posted April 26, 2006 - 06:28 AM

#11

:prof:Living in Alaska.... I don't have overheating issues just yet! We'll see in a few years with all of this global warming:lol:

When i drain my stock coolant, I use Engine Ice to refill! It is good stuff....never had a problem overheating...even when riding in Florida or Southern California during the winters!

  • grayracer513

Posted April 26, 2006 - 07:29 AM

#12

Goalie,

It is true, as you say, that water conducts heat out of the system better on its own than when mixed with coolants. The things that coolants add to the equation are; protection from freezing, added boil resistance, protection against electrolysis, and increased lubricity.

If you don't have a problem with any of these issues, then water will work. Raising the boiling point is probably the most important of any of these issues (except in a real winter), perhaps especially at higher altitudes, where you might consider a 1.5 bar radiator cap in place of your 1.1. Boiling water can't cool anything, and sometimes just raising the BP 20 degrees makes all the difference.

Water Wetter is legit. What it does is the same thing that soap and detergents do to make water clean better (without all the suds). It breaks the surface tension of water so that it will no longer create a thermal barrier between the metal parts of the cooling system and the water itself, and this allows better transfer of heat from hot parts to the water to the radiator. Most coolants will do this as well.

bg10459, you don't need nearly 20% WW in your mix. Check the label.

  • ncmountainman

Posted April 26, 2006 - 07:35 AM

#13

evans NPG-R, it is the only stuff i've ever kept in my bike for a whole season without ever having to top it off. its ethylene glycol based and is waterless,yes it only has 77% heat transfer of water but it will not boil inside the water jackets (molar cavitation or some such thing) creating less surface area contact. therefore in extereme conditions actually cooling better than water based products. it also only runs at 7 psi for a boiling point of 400'f. they reccomend aftermarket rads which i have fluidynes on my yz,but before that i had it in my wr with stock rads and it never got any hotter,just stopped boiling over when stuck in a pileup or mudbog. good enough for ty davis.....good enough for me :crazy:

  • tmckeown

Posted April 26, 2006 - 10:16 AM

#14

Hi,

That small bottle of Water wetter is for 12 liters ~3 gallons of water.
You just need an ounce of it. Label in the bottle gives good instructions how much.

Just like said before, it brakes surface tension from water and that way transfers more heat out of cylinder walls. It also has stuff that protecs your bike engine from rusting inside.

REMEMBER it does NOT protect water from freezing :crazy:

Here you can find more information:

http://www.redlineoi...cts_coolant.asp

Timo Mc

  • bg10459

Posted April 26, 2006 - 01:44 PM

#15

bg10459, you don't need nearly 20% WW in your mix. Check the label.

yeah, I know. That was just a guess,... and a bad one, at that. :ride: Maybe it's more like 90/10 :crazy: I certainly didn't measure anything with my ratio rite cup. I think I would use a little more of it if I weren't using any glycol, though.

  • MotoXman

Posted April 26, 2006 - 05:45 PM

#16

I use EVANS NPG+ waterless coolant because I had a gallon leftover and use it in my F350 Powerstroke diesel. I have done one Grand Prix and around 15 rides or so and have not had a problem. I hope it doesnt make my bike run too much hotter. Does anyone know how much hotter my bike will run?

  • ncmountainman

Posted April 27, 2006 - 05:34 AM

#17

it may run a little hotter during normal operation,but when it comes down to it (in a race or tight woods it'll be better. why? because its still in the bike and not spitting out the overflow :crazy: the npg-r is better for small system such as motorcycles because it has a much lower viscocity :ride:

  • YzGuy79

Posted April 27, 2006 - 04:58 PM

#18

2 oz of Water Wetter + 50/50 mix of Prestone and TAP water = good times!

I've never had my bike spew coolant or have any type of cooling failure. It will drip a little if ridden real hard or slow poked through the woods.

As long as you are using a brand name antifreeze and you don't have hard water, all that hoohaa about distilled this and pyroglypenocalneaalsses that, is just crap.

  • glamisaddict30

Posted April 27, 2006 - 05:18 PM

#19

water i think is the best and if its not its a close second because if I remember right theres an AMA rule that says u can only use water for supercross and stuff but i might be wrong

  • MotoGoalie

Posted May 01, 2006 - 07:46 AM

#20

Ok guys.

I did a bunch of seat of the pants testing this weekend on my recipe.

IT WORKS. IT WORKS WELL.

Same type of riding, slow, uphill lots of clutch slipping, lots of heat generating trails and activity. My little turkey baster would constantly fill up during these rides because the bike was getting hot back when I had the old, unknown mix in it. I bought the bike used, which leads to a big nono. Change ALL the fluids when you buy a used bike. I did everything but the coolant :ride:

I do not have oil/water mix problems so my assumption is the bike is in good operating condition.

This weekend I had NO coolant burble out into the overflow resevoir. NONE. :crazy:

http://img.photobuck...verflowtank.jpg

So, I made up a gallon (and dated the mixture) and will now use that from now on. Much cheaper than the Engine Ice and other alternatives.

I used a ratio rite and used this formula

1. E/G Prestone----20%
2. Bottle of Water Wetter ---Formula from bottle indicates a few oz per gallon water
3. Distilled H20---78-79%

Will make a LOT of coolant according to the recipe.

Cheaply :ride:

and more importantly IT WORKS. :lol:





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