The Straw that broke the camel's back


61 replies to this topic
  • scapegoat

Posted April 22, 2006 - 08:25 AM

#21

Ha,ha. Kinda like preachin to the choir eh. Dont feel bad. I expressed my opinion of my 4 Dodge diesels POS`es on a DC web site and was banned from it. F`em if they cant take a joke :thumbsup:

  • Maniak

Posted April 22, 2006 - 08:54 AM

#22

There are very few, if any, dual sport bikes that are as reliable and can take abuse, even yours, as the XR , XRL. Yea changing the spark plug is not fun, what maintence is, but quit crying and just get it done. As far as the oil goes, if your using lots then its one of two things, its broke or over full. If its broke then find the problem, but its obvious you dont have enought talent or brains to do that, so sell the bike. Maybe broke rings and maybe a broke piston, check compresion. If its over full, drain the complete system, oil tank and engine,blow the lines clear, Blow? and start over, like others here have said. One thing you should do is change the oil filter, but you wont be able to do that either because you dont know which way to turn a bolt. You do know what a bolt is dont you? If your filter is cloged, and they can get cloged from the bits of piston and rings your top end is done with, it can make the oil level very inconsistant due to flow problems. Do you know what flow means? A cloged filter will just bypass oil to the engine. Have someone else change the filter, like your neighbors six year old daughter, fill the oil tank with oil and let your neighbors daughter put the dip stick back in for you, since you dont know how to screw anything. Once you, and your neignbors daughter, are done working on the bike start it up and check oil level again, dont forget to turn the gas on, its that little silver thingy on the lower left of the gas tank. You do know what a gas tank is dont you? And make sure you have gas in it. Gas? And when your done and its running perfect, sell it !!!!! Go back to peddling you tricycle. You do not need to be on two wheels, or do you have training wheels on it? Lastly, Do not come to a forum like this again and start bashing a beloved vehicle such as the XR to a group of guys, and girls, that come here because we love bikes and riding! and most try to answer problem questions, even airhead ones like yours. SELL IT ! :thumbsup: You are not a breader are you?

  • LotsOfBikes

Posted April 22, 2006 - 03:06 PM

#23

Gagster,

Maybe your XRL just plain doesn't like you. It probably hates you.

Therefore, you should sell it to any one of us here for $500 (Five Hundred Dollars.) It'd brobably start running perfect.

A friend of mine had excessive "problems" with his 1998 ATK605 ES/DS. I witnessed how bad that bike ran when he was riding it. My 1998 ATK 605 ran perfect. I stole that bike from him a four years ago for $1000.

I've never had a lick of problems starting that bike or keeping it running. For me, it runs like a dream, and loves to run! I didn't do anything but change the oil. It probably likes being next to the other 1998 ATK605 in my garage. :thumbsup:

I start the bidding at $495.00 :thumbsup:

Please: Someone save this fully operational, however misunderstood, XR650L!

  • gagster1960

Posted April 22, 2006 - 05:45 PM

#24

Gee, Maniak, I wonder why you chose that name? I've owned about 20 mostly used bikes(motorcycles and ATVs) through the years and ridden over 100,000 miles. I've only taken any of them to a shop a couple of times. By the way, I didn't say I couldn't screw in the dipstick. I've done it dozens of times without crossthreading it. I just said it tries to cross thread all of the time. I noticed you didn't deny this criticism or, in fact, the issue of the oil level. I mean, is it too much to ask to have the thing read corrrectly without draining the oil out and refilling it every time you want to check it? If the machine burns oil, that will only work until it burns some, then you're back to square one. You personally attack me because you can't really defend the flaws in the bike. Maybe Honda will someday make a better effort and come up with an updated version with liquid cooling, lighter weight, more power, and a few less irritating flaws. You really make it personal with me and call me stupid, but I'll bet my IQ is higher than yours and I'll bet I'm better educated, too, because I can at least spell. You call me a "breader", do you mean "breeder"?

  • Jayzonk

Posted April 22, 2006 - 06:35 PM

#25

Let's cut the crap and take a good look at this. I want to learn something from this thread. How does Gagster determine if he's got engine damage or a leak? Where does he start looking for leaking oil? Maybe we can get to the problem quickly for him.
:thumbsup:

  • gagster1960

Posted April 22, 2006 - 06:57 PM

#26

Jayzonk, thank you. This machine leaks no oil. There is none blown onto the rear wheel and there is no oil on the engine and transmission. There are also no oil drips on the floor of my garage. A compression check would be a little more difficult than normal because of the compression release. But the machine has every indication of having good compression. It runs strong. It'll pull 95 with lowered gearing and wheelie easily in 2nd with just a twist of throttle. It starts easily hot or cold, and gets 46-52 mpg on the highway, so I don't think the engine is bad. It had not been started in a long time when I first got it and it really let go of a lot of blue smoke on startup and while riding. I assumed this was maybe dried out valve guide seals. It has stopped smoking on startup and it smokes less and less while riding as time goes on. I was unaware of the bolt in the case for checking the oil level there because I don't have an owner's manual yet. When I removed the bolt today, it showed that it was over filled. Evidently, this particular machine will not give a true oil level reading until it has been thoroughly warmed up and ridden for quite a while, like a half hour or so. It will give a false(low) reading after sitting overnight. Unfortunately, it appears to give false low readings sometimes after riding for a while too. :thumbsup:

  • Max Power

Posted April 22, 2006 - 07:11 PM

#27

Jayzonk, thank you. This machine leaks no oil. There is none blown onto the rear wheel and there is no oil on the engine and transmission. There are also no oil drips on the floor of my garage. A compression check would be a little more difficult than normal because of the compression release. But the machine has every indication of having good compression. It runs strong. It'll pull 95 with lowered gearing and wheelie easily in 2nd with just a twist of throttle. It starts easily hot or cold, and gets 46-52 mpg on the highway, so I don't think the engine is bad. It had not been started in a long time when I first got it and it really let go of a lot of blue smoke on startup and while riding. I assumed this was maybe dried out valve guide seals. It has stopped smoking on startup and it smokes less and less while riding as time goes on. I was unaware of the bolt in the case for checking the oil level there because I don't have an owner's manual yet. When I removed the bolt today, it showed that it was over filled. Evidently, this particular machine will not give a true oil level reading until it has been thoroughly warmed up and ridden for quite a while, like a half hour or so. It will give a false(low) reading after sitting overnight. Unfortunately, it appears to give false low readings sometimes after riding for a while too. :thumbsup:


Hey WR 450. How's it hangin? :thumbsup:

  • Jayzonk

Posted April 22, 2006 - 07:13 PM

#28

I haven't started mine in a week. I'm going to check it and see if I get a similar false reading. It'd be good to know if it's a problem with bikes with low km's, bikes with high km's, or all of them.

  • mikekay

Posted April 23, 2006 - 12:21 AM

#29

False reading on all the XR's is common.
The oil wont really be ready to check until the cover of the oil filter is very hot to the touch.

My guess is that the bike isnt eating oil--just that you are getting low readings.

As for crossthreading the dip stick--we all know exactly what ya mean. Especially on the 650r-thats the worst one, horible design.

If you think its eating oil try a compression test. Sears sells the tool for about $50, or your dealer can do it. You can also take a look at the spark plug color, and put your hand near the muffler while the bike is running--and then smell it for oil smells. Its an older bike so it is possible you need some fresh rings.

If you overflow your motor with oil you do risk blowing seals, and or engine oil coming up the vent to the airbox, and then making a mess.

When i lead motorcycle tours in baja on XR's i had to start all the bikes each morning and check the oil level. 20+ XR's at a time! It was amazing how often i got false low readings--eventually i figured out the bikes have to be really really warm to get a true reading.

  • lazybones51

Posted April 23, 2006 - 12:37 AM

#30

Maybe Honda will someday make a better effort and come up with an updated version with liquid cooling, lighter weight, more power, and a few less irritating flaws."?


I think it called an xr650r :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • goblin127

Posted April 23, 2006 - 06:19 AM

#31

I think it called an xr650r :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Clueless! Where is WR450 when he could be of some use.

  • gagster1960

Posted April 23, 2006 - 06:46 AM

#32

Thanks, for that info, MikeKay. I started mine up this morning and rode it around for about 2 miles slowly to get it warmed up. When I got back, the oil filter cover was hot to the touch. Then, I checked it. Sure enough, it read about 40% up the stick. Yesterday, I drained oil out the oil check bolt hole until it was at the correct level and at that particular time it even read right to the full mark on the dipstick(amazing). I doubt I rode it 10 miles since then.

I suspect this machine does use some oil, because I can smell it out of the exhaust sometimes and can see blue smoke once in a while. The plug is normal but the color is a little grayish. Too bad that the check system isn't better so than I could really know how much it's using. I'd suspect that if the dipstick sometimes gives false reading, the oil bolt will too. If the oil is pumped up into the frame, it may give a false reading down there too. Guess I'll get a syringe like my father in law uses for his cattle and inject some oil in the bolt hole, when it shows low. :thumbsup:

  • Phuzzy McPhuzzface

Posted April 23, 2006 - 07:11 AM

#33

One suggestion for the mis-indication of true oil level is to make sure it is all completely drained out, then add the correctly measured amount (new filter or not, etc.) take a few readings when warm.

Get used to its idiosyncrasies (like any machine) and treat it well, it will return the favor.

Change the oil regularly and often, and you'll be fine. (Unless you have a blown seal or worn rings, which it doesn't sound like judging from what I have read in this thread.)

As far as the dipstick crossthread tendency, a habit I have picked up a long time ago when threading items is to rotate in the loosen direction first, until the threads to "click" (line up), then proceed slowly in the tighten direction, and don't force it if there's too much resistance.

  • Dual_Dog

Posted April 23, 2006 - 07:32 AM

#34

One thing that I used to do with my old 3-HP Briggs & Stratton mini-bike motor when changing the oil when I was about 10 was to pour the oil in a premeasured (old glass gatorade) bottle, then pour it into the engine. That's when oil cans really were cans & it took a church key to open 'em. Took all of the guess work out of how much oil to use. I keep saying I'm going to do that with my XRL but haven't yet... :bonk:

Oh yeah, if it hasn't been said already, filling these dry sump engines is a two-stage process. Pour about 1.25 qts in, run the motor for a few minutes, then pour the rest & then check the level. For as much as I've changed the oil in my XL600R's & my XRL I've overfilled it before. Pain in the neck to get it back out. :thumbsup:

As long as the engine isn't worn out, the oil pump is working, the oil lines aren't clogged (which is almost never), & you change the oil & filter regularly there really shouldn't any problems with the amount of oil in the bike. Just make sure you put at least 2 qts. in & there should always end up being enough in the motor, regardless of what the dipstick is showing... :confused:

This old RFVC motor is just about as bullet-proof as they come. :thumbsup:

  • Maniak

Posted April 23, 2006 - 01:18 PM

#35

OK gagman, I forgot to hit spell check, I guess that means I'm stupid, but as long as you have stopped trashing the XR, I will be as willing to be of help as anyone else here. If you can read through my get back attack, you will see I had some useful info, and the one thing you really should try, after compression check, is the oil filter. If this is clogged, and can very well be, it will just bypass to the engine and make for an overfill of the motor and burn oil,and give false level readings, both at the dip stick and engine. Yes the dip stick can be easy to cross thread, I never said it wasn't, bad design? maybe, but it is what it is, just be careful. As far as compression test and the compression release, put your compression Gage in, put the bike in 5th gear, and up on a stand with the rear wheel in the air and you can turn the motor over by turning the rear wheel without engaging the compression release. Three fast compression strokes and you have a reading, a manual will give you a working tolerance,I would say anything less than 80 lbs and you have a top end failure of some type. I have had several XR's, both kick and E start, and many friends with same and because of the dry sump, check the oil after a long ride and or the end of the day of riding, after shut down just let is sit for about a minute, pull the stick out, wipe it clean and stick and check. This has always been a good method for us and if done at the end of the day, ensures you are ready to go on the next mornings ride.
By the way you describe the puff of oil smoke at start and a little smoke while riding, I will be willing to bet you have a broken ring, not a hard thing to do if over reved, you will never know what damage was done by the previous owner, but change oil and filter, disconnect the oil lines and blow them clear with compressed air, refill and do a compression check.
P.S. Maniak was given to me when trying to catch the Hurricane.

  • wr450fyamaha

Posted April 23, 2006 - 04:11 PM

#36

I do appreciate all the replies, really I do, but why make it personal, calling me an idiot, etc, etc? I criticized the bike and and its design. You guys have tried to make it personal.



We criticize you because you ARE an idiot. If you cant unscrew a damn dipstick, you have got some serious problems. Dip sticks are way more accurate than a damn oil window, if you 5 degrees off center it will show that u need a half quart of oil or you a half quart high. It is the perfect dual sport, it has some faults but compare it to any other 650 and tell me what you find. When you say stupid shit, you get criticized for it.

  • gagster1960

Posted April 23, 2006 - 05:16 PM

#37

Well, Scapegoat, I know how you feel about the ol' dodge diesel forum and you express my sentiments exactly.

  • chicagobikefan

Posted April 23, 2006 - 07:37 PM

#38

Every bike has its idiosyncrasies. My XR650L has an annoying tendency to tip over in mud :-). Don't be discouraged from posting just because you got some attitude from people. I never understood why people assume that if you love riding, you automatically have a master mechanic's certificate. When someone asks what I think is a "dumb" question, I may roll my eyes to myself, but I'll try to help them, not flame them. At least they had the balls to go online to the world community and ask a question.

Unfortunately, I can't help you with the oil level issue, but mine seems to be pretty consistent ('05 XR650L). I'd definitely drain the whole thing, replace the filter, and refill with the correct oil. Just follow the step-by-step instructions in the manual. WARNING! DO NOT USE A TORQUE WRENCH ON THE LITTLE OIL FILTER COVER BOLTS. You will likely strip the heads off. Just snug them up, then tighten with about 5-10 pounds of pressure on the wrench. Good luck!

  • goblin127

Posted April 24, 2006 - 05:19 AM

#39

Every bike has its idiosyncrasies. My XR650L has an annoying tendency to tip over in mud :-). Don't be discouraged from posting just because you got some attitude from people. I never understood why people assume that if you love riding, you automatically have a master mechanic's certificate. When someone asks what I think is a "dumb" question, I may roll my eyes to myself, but I'll try to help them, not flame them. At least they had the balls to go online to the world community and ask a question.

Unfortunately, I can't help you with the oil level issue, but mine seems to be pretty consistent ('05 XR650L). I'd definitely drain the whole thing, replace the filter, and refill with the correct oil. Just follow the step-by-step instructions in the manual. WARNING! DO NOT USE A TORQUE WRENCH ON THE LITTLE OIL FILTER COVER BOLTS. You will likely strip the heads off. Just snug them up, then tighten with about 5-10 pounds of pressure on the wrench. Good luck!

It was only about the way he went about it.

  • Phuzzy McPhuzzface

Posted April 24, 2006 - 06:13 AM

#40

Another thought that just popped into my vacuous cranium...

I have the XR's Only temperature dipstick, and I am thinking that if the oil is low to the point where the frame reservoir tank is not full, then the temp may read much lower than normal or if the dipstick is sitting in hot oil. If this is true, then the temp dipstick may be a low-oil warning indicator.

Then again maybe the line that feeds the frame tank would end up running hot oil on the dipstick, so maybe I am off-base here. I'll hafta look at it later. :thumbsup:





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