easy pull mod?


15 replies to this topic
  • speedster

Posted March 27, 2006 - 07:34 PM

#1

hey i have a 2003 yamaha yz 450f . tried the clutch lever mod works good. but the clutch arm actuator mod using a 99 clutch arm actuator does not work. it requires a different cable mount so lever can operate properly. this mod probably works on 426 but the 450 s all have the same length lever actuator. i have a 2003 2004 and 2006 450. the 2003 pulls much harder than the other two. the other mod i tried was the gytr clutch kit its ten times worse. its even harder to pull clutch in i verified with yamaha factory. they indicated it was harder to pull. just straight info for you guys looking for reliable info. p.s. i went to a stock clutch plates after spending a fortune on what i thought was good info on this site . rather dissapointed in some forum threads not too reliable.

  • 2fastwhitey

Posted March 27, 2006 - 09:02 PM

#2

Yup, I know what you mean. Some people jump on little things, and other peoples input real fast. Though, a lot of the info is really helpful. You just have to be able to sift through the garbage.

I am looking for an easier clutch for my 00 426 and it is simply an experimentation process.(and I have the Hinson set up) What works best for me so far is the perch and lever from a CRF. Also I used a new cable. The only thing I can think of to improve clutch performance further is to buy the Magura hydraulic clutch setup. Hope you don't give up on the site to easily.

  • thump353

Posted March 29, 2006 - 01:19 PM

#3

msr raptor lever!!!

  • John407

Posted March 29, 2006 - 02:27 PM

#4

I am running an '03. To make the clutch pull lighter a welder friend added 1/2 inch to the stock actuator arm. It is easier than it was, I never switched anything else. Pretty cheap if you know a welder.

  • riderman329

Posted March 29, 2006 - 02:46 PM

#5

just like john407, on my old bike 04 yz450f i did that, but on my new there is no way of doing it with out the cable getting a hugh bend in it. im trying to thing of some other ways to move the acaturator arm out another 1/2" do you guy have any ideas that could help? or has some body already tryed this and has pictures?

  • motobark

Posted March 29, 2006 - 02:59 PM

#6

Here's the info on getting the lightest clutch pull ever...

First step, ditch the cable! Get a Magura setup. There's a little more to getting a Magura clutch though because they don't use the best master cylinder for the YZ's. If you order one for an '00 to '06 YZ450, you'll get a master that has a 10.5mm piston bore. They also make a master that has a 9.5mm piston, but you'd probably have to call Magura direct to special order the combination of the correct slave cylinder and the 9.5 master instead of the 10.5. (The smaller the master piston, the lighter the pull, but also will have less travel at the clutch arm.)

If that's still not light enough, you can put an Enduro Engineering light pull lever on the Magura, that will make it lighter still, but again you loose a little travel. The lack of travel isn't a problem on the 450's that don't use the modified clutch plate setup (beveled "spring" plate for reducing chatter, like in the GYTR kit).

Here's some numbers...
Clutch pull with stock lever and cable- about 9 to 11lbs. (Way too much.)
Clutch pull with Magura w/10.5mm master- about 8 to 10lbs.
Magura w/9.5mm master- about 7 to 9lbs.
Magura w/9.5mm master and Enduro Engineering lever- about 6 to 8lbs pull, feels way lighter than my sons YZ85! This setup has worked perfectly on my '03 and '06 YZ450's, plenty of travel for full dissengagement and nice, progressive engagement. I would guess a CRF450 would be around 8 to 9lbs on the stock cable and lever. Obviously these numbers were with my scale, done very un-scientifically, so don't try to compare them to your results.

If you don't want to mess with special ordering the 9.5mm master, just get the standard Magura Jack kit and use the Enduro Engineering lever with it. That will get you a lighter pull than the stock cable and you'll never have to lube that cable again.

I think the guys name I've talked to at Magura was Pete, very nice guy.They took good care of me the couple of times I've needed them over the years. I could probably find his name and number if anyone needs it.

  • grayracer513

Posted March 29, 2006 - 05:35 PM

#7

The setup on mine is a full Hinson, which is essentially identical to the GYT-R parts, and the actuator is 36mm from center of shaft to center of cable lug. It has a pull, measured in the center of the grip area of an ASV C5 lever (about 2 1/4" in from the end) of 12 pounds to move the lever in the last 10mm of its travel. Now, I admit I was a professional mechanic for over 30 years, but I'm well over 50 at this point and my grip is a long way from what it used to be. I can easily operate the lever on this bike with my first two fingers all the way in on the crook of the lever, which makes sense, since there are a number of firearms with trigger pulls in excess of 6 pounds. The arrangement also has enough travel that the clutch releases cleanly without being pulled to the bar. If you need it lighter, some forearm exercise may be more what you need. Maybe not.

But do note that the cable on the 450 is an issue. Because of the less direct way it's routed, and the small radius turn it makes at the bottom end, the cable has to be in good condition and well lubed to operate smoothly and with the minimum of effort.

  • motobark

Posted March 29, 2006 - 07:01 PM

#8

Hey Grayracer, I've seen some of your posts in the past and respect the input and advice you've given guys here, good job! I figured one of these days I'd get to talk to you about something. Where were you a mechanic? I've been a journeyman GM dealer tech for almost 25 years now, sounds like you're a little bit older than me.

I just went out and tried the clutches on my '06 and '03. I can pull the Magura on the '06 all the way to the bar with any ONE of my fingers, even my pinky! I put the stock stuff back on the '03 (never used cable and lever) and I can't pull it without using two fingers. My hand strength is pretty good but I have knuckle joint problems sometimes in the fingers I use for the clutch. (Imagine that after 35 years of riding bikes with clutches!) I also use the clutch constantly when I ride, even on the big 4 strokes. I actually wear out clutch levers instead of bending or breaking them like most people do. For my joints to survive 70 or 100 mile days of constant clutch use I have to have the lightest lever pull I can.

I personally don't know why the hydraulic clutches aren't more popular, I wouldn't be without one on my bike. Even if the cables are decent when they're new, they only get harder to pull as the cables wear through the housings. And the consistant engagement point makes things like stalling far less common. Definitely on my top ten dirt bike products list!

BTW, I keep a hand exerciser in my car all the time, you know it takes a lot of hand strength to hold onto these 450's!

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Raven1911

Posted March 29, 2006 - 11:26 PM

#9

How much did you pay for the Magura clutch?? I would love to lighten the pull of the lever, but was told on this forum that the hydraulic clutch doesn't lessen the pull??

  • thump353

Posted March 30, 2006 - 05:21 AM

#10

i just installed the msr raptor lever on my bike last night. it's a night and day difference. i put it on the lightest setting (the one closest to the lever pivot point) and now the clutch pull makes it feel like a ttr 125. i had one on my yz400f years ago and never had any problems. beside the fact that you have to use there lever and perch, does anyone know of any downside to using this system?

  • grayracer513

Posted March 30, 2006 - 07:57 AM

#11

i just installed the msr raptor lever on my bike last night. it's a night and day difference..... does anyone know of any downside to using this system?

That "fix" depends on simply altering the lever ratios, and like motobark said, the downside is that the amount of travel produced at the other end may not be enough to completely disengage the clutch.

  • grayracer513

Posted March 30, 2006 - 08:25 AM

#12

Hey Grayracer, ...Where were you a mechanic?

3 different M/C shops (two independent custom/race shop, one Yamaha dealer), Ford, Lincoln-Mercury, Pontiac, GMC and 18 years at a Chevy dealer. Multiple Master Tech Certs (Ford, GM, & ASE), and Chevrolet's National Advisory Council for 6 years. I know stuff that very few people in the world know, but most of that is interesting at best. (The number of people who know important stuff that I don't is astounding)

I think it's cool that you can get the clutch pull that light, it's just that mine satisfies me to the extent that it's a complete non issue for me, never mind contemplating the expenditure of a Magura setup. Your joint issues are not difficult for me to understand at all, and IMO, they are more than likely occupational in origin. I have trouble with my hands and shoulders (reaching over my head too much of the time)

I actually wear out clutch levers instead of bending or breaking them like most people do.

That raises an interesting question; does ASV make a lever that fits the Magura set up?

I personally don't know why the hydraulic clutches aren't more popular, I wouldn't be without one on my bike. Even if the cables are decent when they're new, they only get harder to pull as the cables wear through the housings. And the consistent engagement point makes things like stalling far less common.

They're expensive, and not everyone has had the success with them that you have, frankly, which may very well indicate that they're trickier to set up than some guys can deal with. You've clearly put a lot of effort into coming up with a good combo. But again, the cable on my YZ is the one that came with it new, and I still have no complaint about it that's sufficient to make me want to bother with it, the expense notwithstanding.

BTW, I keep a hand exerciser in my car all the time, you know it takes a lot of hand strength to hold onto these 450's!

:thumbsup: Yeah, that was kind of what I was getting at.

:thumbsup:

  • darksun27

Posted March 30, 2006 - 08:40 AM

#13

i just oiled my clutch cable till the oil poured out of the bottom of the cable. the pull on it was wayyyyy easier than a brand new 06 ktm 450 w/ the magura hydraulic clutch

  • motobark

Posted March 30, 2006 - 09:53 PM

#14

Hey Grayracer, I had a feeling you were a GM tech. I'm the main man in a GMC/Pont/Buick dealership. (We don't technically have a "Foreman".) I’m one of those “don’t get my hands dirty” drivability/electrical techs. I learned a long time ago that using my brain is easier (and pays a lot more) than using my body! My joint problem is definitely from riding, it’s only one knuckle and it only acts up when I’ve been riding a lot when it’s cold. I did have a knee problem years ago that I figured out was caused by the way I was getting out of cars at work. I was basically putting all my weight on my left leg, and also rotating the knee whenever I would get out of a car. I started getting out of cars more like a woman wearing a tight skirt (no smart #ss remarks guys) which makes you stand up with both legs and knees straight, and the problem disappeared.

I think Magura blew it when they put their kits together years ago. They obviously erred on the side of having plenty of travel instead of a lighter pull. The masters that my ’00, ’03 and ’06 called for (a 10.5mm bore) has WAY too much travel. From full engagement to full disengagement was about half an inch of lever movement. I told the guys at Magura that they really need to look at which masters they put with which kits, but I doubt they’ll do anything about it. Too bad because it’s been giving them a bad rep for the hydraulic clutches not being lighter pull than some stock cable setups. Oh well.

I don’t think the price is that expensive, they’re about $200-$250 for the kit. Some of the first hydraulic clutch setups were about $400, that’s a little steep. How much are guys spending on these Rekluse auto clutch setups? $250 doesn’t seem like that much to me when these bikes are over $7k otd now. As for the ASV levers, I’m pretty sure they make one for the Magura, for me those levers are too expensive though! (I just avoid crashing.) The ASV lever thing for me is like the clutch pull issue for you, a non-issue. I've bent or broken maybe 1 lever in the last 5 years so there's no reason for me to spend the money on the ASV levers.

  • bxrjim

Posted March 31, 2006 - 07:25 AM

#15

Hey motobark, would the new jack cluch from Magura be as good as your mod?

  • grayracer513

Posted March 31, 2006 - 07:41 AM

#16

The ASV lever thing for me is like the clutch pull issue for you, a non-issue. I've bent or broken maybe 1 lever in the last 5 years so there's no reason for me to spend the money on the ASV levers.

It more or less is for me, too, but Junior's bike has already paid for both sets in the money I haven't spent on $10 Moose levers since I got these.

One thing about a hydraulic clutch that can be a big advantage to some people who use their clutches really hard is that they self adjust. If you ride it hard and get it hot, the free play never changes, and you don't have to fiddle with it the middle of 6 miles of bad road.





Related Content

Reviews

Yamaha YZ450F 2017 by Chris.GVS


Yamaha YZ450F 2017
  • - - - - -
  • 0 reviews
Forums
Photo

Snake pit oct 30th by The Anvil


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Regional Discussion   California
  • Hot  293 replies
Forums
Photo

2016 YZ450 by CaptainKnobby


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Technical Forums   Suspension
  • Hot  59 replies
Forums
Photo

First Hare scramble tips by dhend8


Dirt Bike   General Dirt Bike Forums   General Dirt Bike Discussion
  • Hot  33 replies
Forums
Photo

Michigan Motocross Tires by 288yz450


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Regional Discussion   North
  • 1 reply
 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.