06 450f flame out w/rekluse


38 replies to this topic
  • gdbarr1976

Posted March 20, 2006 - 07:38 PM

#21

I'm done with this clutch until someone makes a heavy flywheel. I spent Sat messing wiht may jetting and the clutch engagment until it was perfect. Sun I rode the Cherokee National Enduro in Ga. 107 actual ground miles. I rode the same event last year on my 250f with a auto clutch and a 8oz flywheel. Not a single stall. This year no less than 25 stalls. No I am not kidding. When someone makes a heavy flywheel for a 06 I will try it again. Until then, I will learn how to use a clutch again.

  • dirtbikindad426

Posted March 20, 2006 - 08:12 PM

#22

Damn I was hoping for a better outcome I am thinking of putting one on my new 450.

  • FlynRyn

Posted March 21, 2006 - 02:00 PM

#23

What is your idle set to (RPM)?

  • KTMKarl

Posted March 21, 2006 - 02:23 PM

#24

Your assumption that a heavier flywheel will alleviate/cure a snap throttle issue is flawed. It may hold engine RPM slightly higher during the decel event but all things being equal a heavier flywheel will actually aggrevate the issue by causing the engine to respond slower during the circumstance you have described. Think it through a little farther you have some other issue be it mechanical or physical.

  • 2fastwhitey

Posted March 21, 2006 - 06:59 PM

#25

That sux, in a race of all places!! 25 times?!?!? &%$#@! Good Luck

  • gdbarr1976

Posted March 22, 2006 - 05:46 AM

#26

Your assumption that a heavier flywheel will alleviate/cure a snap throttle issue is flawed. It may hold engine RPM slightly higher during the decel event but all things being equal a heavier flywheel will actually aggrevate the issue by causing the engine to respond slower during the circumstance you have described. Think it through a little farther you have some other issue be it mechanical or physical.


Most, if not all of my stalls this past weedend came during a panick stop situation. I think what was happening was I was hard on the brakes before the engine rpms were low enough to let the clutch disengage. Thus a stall. I think a flywheel would help that. It would keep the engine moving long enough to let the clutch disengage. It probably would not make that big of a difference during excelleration.

I don't want to give the impression that this is a bad product. I had this same issue with my 250f and gave up on it. Two years later I got a 8oz flywheel and put the clutch back on. That made the difference. Zero stalls. And, this stalling is only a issue racing in the woods. Trail riding, no stall. MX, not stall. In the tite woods wide open from root to root. Stalls. I have tried every combo. Leaner, richer, high idle, low idle, high stall speed. You name it. When someone makes a heavy flywheel I will put it back on.

  • gdbarr1976

Posted March 22, 2006 - 05:49 AM

#27

What is your idle set to (RPM)?



Pretty high. That helped. Of course the engagment point for the clutch was also set high.

  • FlynRyn

Posted March 22, 2006 - 04:48 PM

#28

Well I should get my Rekluse any day now. I will let you know if I have better luck or not.

  • KTMKarl

Posted March 22, 2006 - 05:03 PM

#29

I thought it was probably happening on a hard decel. BTW I have had some issues with this problem even with a normal clutch on my 06, my assumption is that the root problem is idle mixture/float level issue but I haven't had time to trace it all the way down yet. Like yours mine happens only it tight woods w/ a bunch of high load short distance accels. ie: stop hard go hard back to back in short bursts, kinda tough to simulate this in a non-race condition cuz it is hard to make myself just ride it like a race, I'm usually thinking too much and I'll keep it from happening while practicing. Mine also seems to be more of a problem in very rough terrain ie: rocks or lots of braking chop, which is why I am also skeptical of the float as a possibility. Your right, some flywheel weight will help this issue. I was thinking it was more of an accel issue which a wieght will generally aggrevate. Coming off a 250f myself I have adapted during races by disengaging the clutch and revving the motor on decel it works well but it can take up a little more of my attention than I would like. plus side is if the section is really choppy some RPM inertia can really go a long ways towards stabilizing the motorcycle during corner entry.

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  • gdbarr1976

Posted March 22, 2006 - 07:28 PM

#30

I thought it was probably happening on a hard decel. BTW I have had some issues with this problem even with a normal clutch on my 06, my assumption is that the root problem is idle mixture/float level issue but I haven't had time to trace it all the way down yet. Like yours mine happens only it tight woods w/ a bunch of high load short distance accels. ie: stop hard go hard back to back in short bursts, kinda tough to simulate this in a non-race condition cuz it is hard to make myself just ride it like a race, I'm usually thinking too much and I'll keep it from happening while practicing. Mine also seems to be more of a problem in very rough terrain ie: rocks or lots of braking chop, which is why I am also skeptical of the float as a possibility. Your right, some flywheel weight will help this issue. I was thinking it was more of an accel issue which a wieght will generally aggrevate. Coming off a 250f myself I have adapted during races by disengaging the clutch and revving the motor on decel it works well but it can take up a little more of my attention than I would like. plus side is if the section is really choppy some RPM inertia can really go a long ways towards stabilizing the motorcycle during corner entry.


I wonder, did Yamaha figure out that stalling was a problem and the cure was to run it very lean? It does seem to be worse when it gets real hot. Maybe I will go back to my stock jetting and see what happens. Yamaha has usually been pretty good about shipping there bikes with the jetting pretty close. I can put up with some popping if it won't stall!

  • KTMKarl

Posted March 23, 2006 - 05:34 PM

#31

definetly a possibility, I ride some with a buddy who has a 06 450 like mine and the first few weekends it was 38-50 degrees out while we were riding, I had played all the jetting games already and he hadn't guess what.... Thats right his bike ran just fine once it had some temperature in the motor. Once warmed up he had very little to no popping and the motor responed well but it did have some slight "lean" feel just off idle, no symptoms other than a "feel" whatever the heck that is. LOL My motor did feel slighty smoother on light accel but WFO the difference was not noticable. I am confident my jetting will end up very near stock once spring comes to southwest Missouri.

PS: his with completely stock jetting and fuel screw settings has consistently started better than mine hot or cold. The only thing that has stopped me from coming back is a case of lazy arse and perfect dead engine starts while racing.

  • gdbarr1976

Posted March 23, 2006 - 07:39 PM

#32

Right before I headed to the garage to take off my rekluse I read the Best products posts. Lots of rekluse fans. I then started thinking about how well it did work, right before it would stall. And then I started thinking more about the jetting. With a 170 main and 48 pilot and two turns out on the fuel screw it runs pretty good. But maybe not that good when it gets good and hot. That is when it starts stalling after all. So, I am going to give this thing ONE more try. I leaned the needle out one notch. Everything else stayed the same. It seems to run pretty good. I also raised the engagment point rediculously high.(turned the barrel adjusted way out) I will reserve judgment but it might just work.

  • KTMKarl

Posted March 24, 2006 - 10:13 AM

#33

Hey I got to thinking more about this last night and I have a question that may shed some light on the issue. What material are the stock metal clutch plates? My assumption and past YZF experience says steel BUT I have noticed the hot vs: cold lever engagement point to alter more on this machine than any previous bike I have owned. You may try to increase the staic clutch gap to the maximum or dissasemble and check it with a HOT clutch.

A word of caution my 250f would slip at high rpm when I tried to run excessive spring pre-load on the cable/adjuster. Keep an eye out for this cuz it won't take to much high load slip to roast the plates.

I have to agree with the masses on the Rekluse clutch, although I haven't yet jumped to the auto clutch with my 450, it was hands down the best money I ever spent on my 250. Great product.

  • Fastest1

Posted March 24, 2006 - 11:24 AM

#34

My own experience after running 2 different brands of auto (EFM and Rekluse, both were great units). That if set up correctly, there is no way you can stall my bike period! Throttle on or off from idle to wfo it doesnt matter, hell it runs on the ground til the carb goes dry! Weight wont help and the Rekluse with the balls out to engage the clutch probably adds quite a bit of weight to stock. I would go as far as to say your installed gap is too small, try a little more that should help disengagement and eliminate your need for a high engagement speed. I personally like the instant engagement of the light spring and I dont run a lever/override.

  • gdbarr1976

Posted March 25, 2006 - 09:25 AM

#35

My own experience after running 2 different brands of auto (EFM and Rekluse, both were great units). That if set up correctly, there is no way you can stall my bike period! Throttle on or off from idle to wfo it doesnt matter, hell it runs on the ground til the carb goes dry! Weight wont help and the Rekluse with the balls out to engage the clutch probably adds quite a bit of weight to stock. I would go as far as to say your installed gap is too small, try a little more that should help disengagement and eliminate your need for a high engagement speed. I personally like the instant engagement of the light spring and I dont run a lever/override.


You may be right about the install gap. I'm going to open it up a bit. Thanks for the advice.

  • Fastest1

Posted March 25, 2006 - 12:37 PM

#36

I will bet on it. The installed gap if too small will cause a light dragging once up to temperature and will engage too early as soon as RPM's start to rise. If looking at the pressure plate setup, I personally dont think the plate travels all the way in so there is probably a little extra in case the installed gap is too large. Good Luck it does take some tinkering and because maybe I can force a feeler gauge in a gap doesnt mean it was that size (I still want to force it. I guess its a male thing LOL) A very light drag is all you should feel.

  • FlynRyn

Posted March 26, 2006 - 04:43 PM

#37

OK so I installed the rekluse on my 06 450 this weekend. I had the correct installed gap (.036). I used the stiff spring with the perch kit, I had about 4 mm of thread showing on the rekluse adjuster(engagement RPM high). I followed the instruction on how to adjust the cable free play (hold RPM at 4500 and adjust free play until lever has about 1/2" of movement before resistance is felt) When I did this the cable adjuster on the perch was out about 4 mm as well.

So I go out to Racetown and my bike stalled 2 times in one lap around the track, I was like ahh crap maybe there is an issue with the 06 and the rekluse. I then realized I changed out my clutch lever after installing and adjusting my rekluse clutch, so sure enough I forgot to re-adjust cable free play and it was not set correctly. I re adjusted my cable free play and the stalling issue went away.

So set the cable free play and your stalling should go away.

I have decided I don't really like the rekluse for the track(its great for trail riding) and I want to get rid of it. PM me with offer if your interested for a rekluse and perch adjuster kit with less than 2 hours on it.

  • ncmountainman

Posted March 27, 2006 - 05:38 AM

#38

different length clutch levers are gonna give different results by that method,i go by the nickels width(about 1/10") of play between the perch and lever :thumbsup: there is also the old 3rd gear test...while cruising a constant throttle in 3rd gear apply the back brake while not letting off the gas,if the motor doesn't bog down in rpm and the clutch slips instead you have a problem with the install gap. makes for a quick field test :thumbsup:

  • FlynRyn

Posted March 27, 2006 - 07:32 AM

#39

different length clutch levers are gonna give different results by that method,i go by the nickels width(about 1/10") of play between the perch and lever :thumbsup: there is also the old 3rd gear test...while cruising a constant throttle in 3rd gear apply the back brake while not letting off the gas,if the motor doesn't bog down in rpm and the clutch slips instead you have a problem with the install gap. makes for a quick field test :thumbsup:



Yah your right NC. I also noticed the 06 YZ does not have a push lever return spring like the 03 ~05 YZ 450's do. Maybe thats why this adjustment is a bit more critical. I set my old wr up by the nickle method and never had a problem with the rekluse.





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