Chest protecter or not


86 replies to this topic
  • HC

Posted March 03, 2006 - 09:00 AM

#21

this looks like a hybrid, my old pro amour actually covers more, but the suit part looks like it'd be hot in sunny climates
http://www.evs-sport...s.asp?prodID=27
not sure, anyone wear one?
Pressure suita are not that far off of full tilt CP's

I'd check my insurance before going to baja and only wearing a jacket with foam in it. some hard protection is a must if you go down.

  • sorenlaf

Posted March 03, 2006 - 09:42 AM

#22

Real quick. Does a chest protector provide protection during a crash or is it just for roost protection? I am riding baja soon and with a backpack and chest protector the straps dont fit right so I am thinking about going without. What do you think


Thanks


I fell on my back on a rather pointy (watermellon sized) rock once.

Small hole punched through the back of the protector, no damage to me.

Look at it this way, if they were just for roost, why would they cover your back?


--Soren

  • qadsan

Posted March 03, 2006 - 10:13 AM

#23

...Does a chest protector provide protection during a crash or is it just for roost protection?...


It's NOT just for roost, but it DOES provide protection during a crash and it could save your life...seriously!

There's been too many people killed from injuries that could have been prevented if the rider was wearing a chest protector. The common scenario is where the rider smacks his chest into the bars or another part of the bike or an object (i.e. fence, rock, tree, etc) and the resulting force compresses the heart and causes it to tear away from the aorta, which leads to extensive internal bleeding that often goes undiagnosed before it's too late. Most of the time there are no warning symptoms from this type of injury, although sometimes initial symptoms can include pressure or pain in the chest or back, but not always.

A chest protector can 'displace' the load from the impact and sometimes that's enough to make the difference between life and death. There's not much time anyway if the aorta is torn / ruptured, but unless you have paramedics standing by who immediately recognize this injury and know what to do and can immediately transport you to a nearby hospital with experienced doctors standing by that are ready to operate, then your chances of survival have probably dropped from slim to none (depending on the extent of the injury).

*** This is a very serious injury that IS more common than you may think ***

This type of injury / death happens more often than you may think and you don't have to look too far to read about people who have been killed from this type of injury (i.e. here on TT and other forums) that may have survived if they were wearing a chest protector. I don't want to make a list of fallen riders who have died of this injury that may otherwise be alive today if they were wearing a chest protector, but 19 year old 125cc rider Jason Ciarletta is just one of the many riders who may be alive today if he was wearing a chest protector.

As a kid, I never wore a seatbelt in a car and neither did my parents. We simply didn't know any better. Most people think that chest protectors are simply for racers and or roost protection because they simply don't know any better. Today I always wear a seat belt because of education and expereince and the same holds true for wearing a chest protector.

Please take this seriously because wearing a chest protector is more than just eye candy and roost protection.

  • JackAttack

Posted March 03, 2006 - 10:18 AM

#24

....


Holy Cow!

A post by qadsan!

Where(how) the hell have you been?

  • TimBrp

Posted March 03, 2006 - 10:36 AM

#25

Holy Cow!

A post by qadsan!

Where(how) the hell have you been?



Ditto man! We miss your insight here!!

  • qadsan

Posted March 03, 2006 - 10:51 AM

#26

Holy Cow!
A post by qadsan!
Where(how) the hell have you been?


I've been away for a while, but I'm still ticking and somewhat sane :thumbsup: :bonk:

The kiddies have moved into WRF's which are fun, but I'm still riding the 650r's and love them, although I occassionaly play on our CR250 when the MX bug bites me. I just pulled the top end off one of our 650r's after 246 engine operating hours just to peek inside her and she looked as good as new. She still runs like new too!

It's good to see many of the same great people still here. I wish I could be here more often, but hopefully I won't be too much of a stranger from now on. Oh well, I'd better get back to the asylum before they find out I'm gone :thumbsup:

  • TimBrp

Posted March 03, 2006 - 11:07 AM

#27

Nice to see you here man. It was always nice to have you come in and "set the record straight". Have a good one!

  • ewbish

Posted March 03, 2006 - 11:26 AM

#28

You're all entitled to your opinions, and if you don't want to listen to somebody that spent a few years working a track and in Xray, who might have seen a thing or two, well, that's cool.

But, I think several of you are very ignorant, but you're welcome to your opinions. I do suggest that you don't pawn your ignorance off on others and cause them injury they wouldn't have suffered if not for your advice. Remember folks, it's a common sense thing. If the roost guard says it's not intended for crash protection, you are an idiot for thinking it is. If you want crash protection, pay for it. Either a jacket w/ armor built in specifically for crash protection, or buy a pressure suit, or other armor that is intended as crash protection.

  • Phuzzy McPhuzzface

Posted March 03, 2006 - 11:35 AM

#29

Sorry but I disagree. W/in an hour of riding w/ 10 guys I could prove you wrong in so many aspects. My chest protector has saved my Irish ass so many times it's not funny. The "majority" of the time is roost deflection, I'll give you that but it does and can do more for you.


I concur. Anything offers more protection than nothing, plain and simple.

As a rule, whenever I ride, one of my goals is to not crash (duh), but alas, I've been known for some rather festive getoffs. Each time I could tell my Thor chest protector offered some protection. I also use elbow/forearm guards, shinguards, gloves.

Granted, this is not an invincible shield for anything I might encounter, but it does what it does, and I have lost count on how many times I was glad that it did just that. :thumbsup:

  • TimBrp

Posted March 03, 2006 - 11:51 AM

#30

You're all entitled to your opinions, and if you don't want to listen to somebody that spent a few years working a track and in Xray, who might have seen a thing or two, well, that's cool.


Fortunately, it appears you've come to the rationalization that we're not here to massage your ego. Secondly, why don't you try riding something other than sandy desert or a groomed mx track? Not all people ride in your conditions. I ride tight singletrack, cart roads etc.etc. littered w/ thousands of hanging branches, pointed rocks so on & so forth. The chest protector did it's job many times for me. How can you sit back and argue with all these guys that are stating their chest protectors have saved their hides more than once? Who's the ignorant one, for real?

If you seriously think chest protectors(hence the name) dont' do squat for you, then fine, don't wear one, bottom line. Mine has saved my ass more times than not. I'll wear one and I would encourage anyone to do so also. I do agree there may be better armor out there, but for the price you can't go wrong. I'd rather see someone with a chest protector on, rather than nothing at all.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • qadsan

Posted March 03, 2006 - 11:59 AM

#31

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I've been racing (MX,Desert) and riding for 32 years. I've yet to see a plastic chest protector prevent anything but roost injuries. Never. Think about it, do you really thing 3mm's of brittle plastic is stronger than a bone? Well, guess what, it's not. There is no way that brittle plastic even remotely protects your back or ribs. Now, in a slow speed tipover, it might keep you from getting bruised by a rock, but it is NOT going to prevent a fracture. Anybody wearing a plastic type chest protector and thinks they are protecting ribs (which they don't cover BTW) or their spine are simply not facing reality. Like I said, there is gear specifically made to protect in a crash, wear it and be safe. But don't think a product that is designed and advertised to stop roost is going to do anything more than that.

BTW, I work in an Xray dept. For years I've watched the aftermath of local races...


You're all entitled to your opinions, and if you don't want to listen to somebody that spent a few years working a track and in Xray, who might have seen a thing or two, well, that's cool.

But, I think several of you are very ignorant, but you're welcome to your opinions. I do suggest that you don't pawn your ignorance off on others and cause them injury they wouldn't have suffered if not for your advice. Remember folks, it's a common sense thing. If the roost guard says it's not intended for crash protection, you are an idiot for thinking it is. If you want crash protection, pay for it. Either a jacket w/ armor built in specifically for crash protection, or buy a pressure suit, or other armor that is intended as crash protection.


OK, so you work in the X-Ray department and you're calling us ignorant :thumbsup:. Maybe you should talk to a few ER docs who feel much differently about chest protectors than you do, or perhaps the ER docs are ignorant too? Could it be that your experiences and work in the x-ray department are limited to certain types of injuries compared to actual emergency room doctors?

I don't want to try and dig up a number of studies or specific accounts from various medical professionals who deal with these types of injuries, but if you truly think that all chest protectors will never prevent an injury and or death, then you may want to talk with some medical professionals who actually deal with these life threatning injuries that have a different opinion on chest protectors than you do and and some of them happen to be right here on TT :thumbsup: .

"jmcgeemd" here on TT is an ER doctor that sees these types of injuries & deaths from aortic tears / ruptures that sometimes could have been prevented by the use of a chest protector.

"davbrucas" here on TT is also an Emergency Medicine Physician and can also give you first hand accounts of these types of injuries and the thoracotomies he's been involved with because of aortic tears or ruptures that may have otherwise been prevented if a chest protector was worn.

"jbrownmxr" yet another doctor here on TT that sees these kinds of injuries with some frequency at the hospital he works for.

Wearing a chest protector doesn't guarantee you too much of anything during a crash, but they have saved lives based on accounts from doctors. I think you're absolutely right about the pressure suit being a better form of protection, but a chest protector can sometimes make all the difference in the world.

  • HC

Posted March 03, 2006 - 12:21 PM

#32

Well here is a shocker, companies do not label that CP's are for crash protection ( drum roll ).....'cause the US is filled with lawyers, and its a sue happy society.

I own 2 dual sport heavy jackets both first gear, and a joe rocket vented w/ pads, possibly not unlike yours. A jacket alone is a mistake in baja. Ignorant? re-read your post. You sound like a newby rider. only w/ a big ego.

Some crashes, a armoured suit/shirt is better, some a heavy duty C/B protector. If you don't realize this, you're in your own little world.

What would be an improvement is a combo of C/B protector, with CE foam, similar to a pressure suit but slightly larger, sort of a combo between to the two suit/C/B.

  • ewbish

Posted March 03, 2006 - 12:37 PM

#33

OK, so you work in the X-Ray department and you're calling us ignorant :thumbsup:. Maybe you should talk to a few ER docs who feel much differently about chest protectors than you do, or perhaps the ER docs are ignorant too? Could it be that your experiences and work in the x-ray department are limited to certain types of injuries compared to actual emergency room doctors?

I don't want to try and dig up a number of studies or specific accounts from various medical professionals who deal with these types of injuries, but if you truly think that all chest protectors will never prevent an injury and or death, then you may want to talk with some medical professionals who actually deal with these life threatning injuries that have a different opinion on chest protectors than you do and and some of them happen to be right here on TT :thumbsup: .

"jmcgeemd" here on TT is an ER doctor that sees these types of injuries & deaths from aortic tears / ruptures that sometimes could have been prevented by the use of a chest protector.

"davbrucas" here on TT is also an Emergency Medicine Physician and can also give you first hand accounts of these types of injuries and the thoracotomies he's been involved with because of aortic tears or ruptures that may have otherwise been prevented if a chest protector was worn.

"jbrownmxr" yet another doctor here on TT that sees these kinds of injuries with some frequency at the hospital he works for.

Wearing a chest protector doesn't guarantee you too much of anything during a crash, but they have saved lives based on accounts from doctors. I think you're absolutely right about the pressure suit being a better form of protection, but a chest protector can sometimes make all the difference in the world.


It's the ER films I'm taling about. And the many of the injuries that I've seen the films on, I was working the track when they occured. Puts me in a rare position, I see the crash, what the rider was wearing, and I see the aftermath. I think a couple of folks on here aren't getting the issue. It's not wether or not a roost guard or chest protector should or should not be worn, it's about people telling others that a product does something outside of it's design. A roost guard, and the common plastic chest protectors are NOT designed to prevent injury in a crash. There are, however, products designed to do so. If a rider has questions about different products and protection, IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE TO TELL HIM THAT SOMETHING WILL DO WHAT IT WAS NOT INTENDED TO DO. I guess the ignorance comes in when I see people on here telling folks that a roost protector is acceptable protection for the spine and ribs. It flat out isn't. Period. If you want spine and rib protection, then buy something made for that. THERE IS A REASON THE LIGHT PLASTIC CHEST GUARDS HAVE THE LITTLE LABEL ON THEM ABOUT INJURY PROTECTION.

If you feel confident that a roost guard is "good enough", by all means, wear one. You're a big boy, make your own decisions. I could care less. I do have an issue with you guys telling people that it's providing protection that it isn't intended to provide. It especially pisses me off, though it hasn't come up here, when I hear guys telling parents new to the sport that it's going to provide that level of protection to their kids. It's a false promise. Again, and this is the last time I'll say it, if you don't get it, or don't agree, fine, I don't give a rat's ass what you do with your body. If you want protection from crash related injuries, buy gear intended to do that. A roost guard is a roost guard, they have a disclaimer on them for a reason. If you want spine, rib, and chest protection, buy the proper gear intended to provide that. If you don't want to, fine. But telling people a roost guard will save their spine is just plain ignorant and irresponsible. If one is worried about a spine injury, buy armor specifically designed to protect your spine.

Don't know why this is such a difficult concept. Sure, you could dump cheap walmart ATF in your 2-smokes tranny. It might even last a ride or two. But we normally use the right stuff, don't we? So why are we so quick to call any old thing "protection" when much of what is on the market has absolutely no crash testing behind it at all? In many cases has paragraphs of disclaimers saying it won't work for exactly what many folks assume it should be used for.

I'm done, you folks are big boys and girls. What may be fine and acceptable for one, isn't for another. I personally, want to be back at work every Monday. That's why I spend the money on decent armor.

One more note. "nice sandy desert". Now that's the funniest damn thing I've ever heard in my life. Any of you guys make it down to S. AZ, I'll show you what real rocks are. Maybe that's the whole problem here, none of you guys actually know what real rocks are? Nice sandy desert, I'll be snickering over that one all night.

  • TimBrp

Posted March 03, 2006 - 12:55 PM

#34

I'm done debating this with you man. You seem to appear to be the expert here, Mr. X-ray Technician. You only base your synopsis on what "you" see or saw. That in turn makes you ignorant. But I'll digress....


Except for that you're trying to tell a guy in New England what rocks are...that's laughable.

  • JackAttack

Posted March 03, 2006 - 01:04 PM

#35

Except for that you're trying to tell a guy in New England what rocks are...that's laughable.


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :bonk:

I'm not defending anybody here...but Arizona does have it's share of rocks.


(I think some are in ewbish's head)

  • ewbish

Posted March 03, 2006 - 01:11 PM

#36

I'm done debating this with you man. You seem to appear to be the expert here, Mr. X-ray Technician. You only base your synopsis on what "you" see or saw. That in turn makes you ignorant. But I'll digress....


Except for that you're trying to tell a guy in New England what rocks are...that's laughable.



1. Not an Xray tech, I run the PACS system. I only see the crash pics because my coworkers and the docs all know my interest in bikes and point them out to me.
2. I am agreement with everything you said about safety and protection. I disagree about telling people a product does something it wasn't intended too. Obviously you think you know everything, otherwise you would have been more willing to debate this. Of course I base my opinion on what I see. That and the fact that it is widely known that most of the CP's on the market are not intended to protect in a crash, they are thusly labeled. You seem to think you know better than the manufacturers, that says something about your ego and ignorance.
3. You're the one who made the "nice sandy desert" comment. Holy crap that's funny. BTW, I've been to NE. You haven't got shit in the rock department. Your roots suck ass, and that's something I've never mastered and respect you guys for, but rocks? Oh yeah, all our plants have spikes and needles. You have to wear armor for not other reason than that. You don't have a clue what true pain is until you smack a cholla cactus with your leg at 40 mph, or high side into a prickly pear climbing a hill. You really need to visit the SW.

  • ghoti

Posted March 03, 2006 - 01:17 PM

#37

Of course I base my opinion on what I see. That and the fact that it is widely known that most of the CP's on the market are not intended to protect in a crash, they are thusly labeled.

Can you provide information to back this up?

  • HC

Posted March 03, 2006 - 01:33 PM

#38

Seems Mr Xray has a bit of a temper. :thumbsup:

not only have rode Southern AZ, I keep a bike there . well tough guy, want to see a much rougher, rockery Dez? go north, WA state.

On your baja trip? you'll do well to take some advice. get some hard parts under that "soft" jacket, wether a pressure suit or a C/B rotector. nah forget it, your a tough guy.


[quote name='ewbish.. For your purposes though, I'd wear a jacket. For long rides like that, I wear a Field Shear jacket, water proof, wind proof, zip out vents for overheating, and kevlar armor in the back, shoulders, elbow, and kidney area. Plus the heavy shell stops cactus, and mesquite thorns with no problem.[/QUOTE']

  • drex

Posted March 03, 2006 - 01:36 PM

#39

I ride with a sixsixone pressure suit which has a built in chest protector, instead of riding with a roost guard.

it also has some kick ass sown in elbow guards.


Supplicate's pressure suit works great in combination with a camelback-type setup.

I crashed into his back last week in Baja and it provided great protection!

:thumbsup:

Dan

  • ewbish

Posted March 03, 2006 - 01:39 PM

#40

Can you provide information to back this up?


Sure, go through the racks at your local bike shops. You'll notice that the cheaper plastic CP's have a small print notice on the tag that tells you that it is for protection from flying debris only and not intended for injury protection in the event of a crash. The wording various by brand.

When I played football, I wore a football helmet, not a batter's helmet. Why do you think that might have been? I mean, after all, they both prevent head injuries right?

(hint, one is intended only for "flying objects", the other is intended for heavy impacts.)





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