06 450 pipe


62 replies to this topic
  • Lizard 1

Posted February 27, 2006 - 10:25 AM

#41

Sure, if every rider was riding their loud bike in the middle of nowhere we wouldnt have an issue with tracks closing and getting a bad rap from joe public. Unfortunately, there are scores of riders on obnoxiously loud 4 strokes who are doing everything from zooming down neighborhood streets to riding on private tracks that have neighbors who have to put up with hours of unnecessary noise. It's hard to believe that not all riders understand that their putting the sport and their right to ride at risk by not caring how loud a bike is. A perfect example..Look at Riverside Ca, an entire area that is looking at laying down some serious laws that will keep people from riding on their own land! Once, the public and lawmakers see a precedent set we will see these kind of laws spread further throughout the country.

Personally, I could have just as much fun riding a bike that puts out 90 db as one that might have another hp or two and spits out an obnoxious 100 dbs that is also turning the publics opinion sour on off road bikes. Regulate ourselves, else we will find ourselves confronted with laws that will severely effect when and where we ride...it's not that hard to understand.



The rub here is...Again, there are way too many folks who go out and buy an obnoxiously loud, high dollar pipe to add another hp to a bike already having over 50 hp. Would you care to guess how many of these people will actually spend any more money on another item to make the bike quieter? Based on my own real world experience, there are too many riders who just dont care enough about the noise issue to buy another add on like this. I have a track on my property and thus far my neighbors have been nice about the situation. In past years I've ridden a 2 stroke and when friends have come over to ride with 450s with loud pipes I've asked them if they could please put their stock pipe on next time they come over. This situation usually results in that person deciding it's not worth the hassle to to make their bike quieter and they will ride elsewhere. This kind of mindset is way to prevelant yet at this point.

As anyone who has harped on this subject in the past has already stated many, many times...the simple answer is to have the AMA impose reasonable sound limits that force the manufacturers to build pipes that are not putting out ear splitting sound levels. It's hard to understand how the AMA cannot have the foresight to see what steps need to be taken to ensure we arent confronted with having more and more of riding rights taken from us. Until they wake up, I'm going to do my part to make sure I'm not part of the problem by buying loud bling pipes that give my bike 51 horsepower instead of 50.


So, there should be bans on Drag cars, motorcycle road races, car races, Sprint car races, NASCAR races? Sure, there are db requirements for all those sports, but the fact of the matter is simple - pipes help with hp. They help in adjusting and making the power you refer to much more usable.

Do we as riders need to be responsible? Yes. Does the AMA need to impose stiffer db requirements? I don't know on that. The OEMs are making exhausts that fit the AMA and other FIM, etc. rules. Why should we have the AMA make the db limit lower when it is off-road racing.

Your energy may be better suited to going to local tracks and asking them to impose lower db requirements. See, johnny is still going to buy an exhaust. You make it sound as if Johnny buying an exhaust is an ignorant and useless thing to do - almost stupid.

Why is it so stupid? Anyways, Johnny's still going to buy that exhaust. He's going to go down to the local track and rip it up. After a while, the noise is going to get to the owners around the track. Isn't it the responsibility of the track? I think so.

Another note is that if you honestly think the 4-stroke is the reason for so many bans, you've missed a few years. We've had db issues and track closings for quite sometime. The MX industry is growing. More people are riding bikes so, yes, it is a situation where the 4-strokes are loud, but if the same number of people were on 250 2-strokes, it would be the same. The thing to consider is the expansion of house building. There are more and more houses being built near our tracks. The noise is only a small issue. This isn't just an MX issue, either. Road courses and such are under severe threats or being shut down. Tracks are imposing db restrictions that if you violate, you are fined. People are standing at tracks taking db samples and craking down.

It is the track's responsibility to police this. They can enact treatment that can curb these issues.

Don't come on here and tell people they are ignorant for putting on a pipe. Just because you may not be able to handle the 50 hp, doesn't mean everyone else can't, either. I've seen plenty of riders who need more... They're not stupid to want more power, are they?

  • KTMKarl

Posted February 27, 2006 - 02:27 PM

#42

Put it on the track???

I'm more than a little against this the AMA needs to start the ball rolling along with ALL the other major sanctioning bodies. I have been involved with a Regional Enduro circuit ( www.blackjackenduro.com ) that took the Bull by the horns and wrestled the issue and their thanks is another reason for an attendance loss. It aint gonna stop till the self elected BIG DOGS take the issue. (trust me there have been more than a few letters penned to em)

Joe blows moto track puts a limit on the BS and Shirley backflip opens a track with no rule then where does that leave Ole Joe? Think it through a little the Ole USA is way behind on this front the Euros have been on the front of it for years and nobody over here has the balls to deal with it!

  • aford541

Posted February 28, 2006 - 08:29 PM

#43

Sure, if every rider was riding their loud bike in the middle of nowhere we wouldnt have an issue with tracks closing and getting a bad rap from joe public. Unfortunately, there are scores of riders on obnoxiously loud 4 strokes who are doing everything from zooming down neighborhood streets to riding on private tracks that have neighbors who have to put up with hours of unnecessary noise. It's hard to believe that not all riders understand that their putting the sport and their right to ride at risk by not caring how loud a bike is. A perfect example..Look at Riverside Ca, an entire area that is looking at laying down some serious laws that will keep people from riding on their own land! Once, the public and lawmakers see a precedent set we will see these kind of laws spread further throughout the country.

Personally, I could have just as much fun riding a bike that puts out 90 db as one that might have another hp or two and spits out an obnoxious 100 dbs that is also turning the publics opinion sour on off road bikes. Regulate ourselves, else we will find ourselves confronted with laws that will severely effect when and where we ride...it's not that hard to understand.



The rub here is...Again, there are way too many folks who go out and buy an obnoxiously loud, high dollar pipe to add another hp to a bike already having over 50 hp. Would you care to guess how many of these people will actually spend any more money on another item to make the bike quieter? Based on my own real world experience, there are too many riders who just dont care enough about the noise issue to buy another add on like this. I have a track on my property and thus far my neighbors have been nice about the situation. In past years I've ridden a 2 stroke and when friends have come over to ride with 450s with loud pipes I've asked them if they could please put their stock pipe on next time they come over. This situation usually results in that person deciding it's not worth the hassle to to make their bike quieter and they will ride elsewhere. This kind of mindset is way to prevelant yet at this point.

As anyone who has harped on this subject in the past has already stated many, many times...the simple answer is to have the AMA impose reasonable sound limits that force the manufacturers to build pipes that are not putting out ear splitting sound levels. It's hard to understand how the AMA cannot have the foresight to see what steps need to be taken to ensure we arent confronted with having more and more of riding rights taken from us. Until they wake up, I'm going to do my part to make sure I'm not part of the problem by buying loud bling pipes that give my bike 51 horsepower instead of 50.


Its funny how no one worries about the jackass at the stop light with his $3,000 stereo blasting crap nobody has ever heard of pissing everyone off that he is next to in traffic.
Thank you to those that posted on topic responses and for those that did not I will find out what pipe is the loudest and go buy it.
Then take the packing out!
Look, its almost common knowledge that the thunder alley pipe makes the most HP because of the megaphone if I was really cared less about sound I would buy one of those.
Posting this thread has shown me that I need to "get the hell off the computer" and "get a life" thanks Moochie you really helped me out!

  • TimFurryBalls

Posted February 28, 2006 - 08:52 PM

#44

:thumbsup: AMA :thumbsup:

  • Lizard 1

Posted March 01, 2006 - 05:11 AM

#45

Put it on the track???


Yes. A lot of Road Race courses establish db limits due to their negotiations with surrounding communities.

Why is it such a stretch to make tracks impose limits? If a track is in the middle of nowhere and there are NO complaints - run what ya brung, but if a track is getting heat from the community due to noise, why is it such a stretch to have them impose db limits? If they don't and they allow whatever db you are pouring out of your bike, then they deserve to get shut down for not being thoughtful of the siuation.

I think the whole "4-strokes are too loud" issue is mostly from tree hugging, Earth muffins with not much to do other than bitch and moan. A LOT of aftermarket systems offer spark arrestors, are quieter than stock, and are good for the bike. A 2-stroke with a full on race exhaust and shorty pipe are pretty damn loud. Ever heard an "A" rider ripping on a 125? Pretty annoying and obnoxious...

  • KTMKarl

Posted March 01, 2006 - 08:52 AM

#46

I oppose putting the resposibility on the track operator, he or she stands to lose money simply because the sanctioning bodies won't take a stand. A track CAN be in the "middle of nowhere" and have one bad nieghbor withen a couple of miles mess the whole deal up for everybody. I have seen it first hand.

If the opperator has some backing from an orginization it doesn't look like they are all alone in the fight and the they have been pro-active in imposing sound limitations. That can go a long way in SOME court rooms. Rght now it isn't happening.

The corelation to the stereo debate kinda hits home as the metro area Ilive near is in the process of banning all automotive stereo speakers larger than 10"! Personally I hink it is kinda funny, sad but funny,that the morons couldn't police themselves so now some hooky city council is gonna do it for em. Anybody want that for OUR sport? ie: Rverside county CA

right now louder than stock systems are sold under the umbrella of "off-road, closed course use only" IF the sanctioning bodies would adapt stronger sound enforcment WITH a FIM style limit it would make it easier for EVERYBODY to understand AND the supply of loud pipes could be shut down as there would be no avenue for there use. Thats what it is gonna take. I often hear the argument that it will kill the aftermarket manufacturers but the recent popularity gain of the European aftermarket systems nullifies that argument.

  • moochie

Posted March 01, 2006 - 09:20 AM

#47

Thank you to those that posted on topic responses and for those that did not I will find out what pipe is the loudest and go buy it.
Then take the packing out!



It's amazing to see people who are THIS proud of their ignorance on an issue that will someday effect them.

Noise issues continue to close more and more land at a consistent pace, yet there are still people like you who prefer to bury their head in the sand.

It also makes absolutely no sense that because there are other sources of noise in the world, that the off road community should then somehow be immune to big brother stepping in and shutting it down.

This is not preaching...it's merely common sense for anyone who opens their eyes to what direction laws have taken in the recent past.

Aford...I'll hand it to you, you must be one hell of a rider if you're using all the horsepower being put out by your 50hp 450. If you havent noticed, the top pros, including RC, have repeatedly said "it's no longer about the horspower."

  • moochie

Posted March 01, 2006 - 09:32 AM

#48

It is the track's responsibility to police this. They can enact treatment that can curb these issues.


This makes absolutely no sense!!!

Why would an individual track place themselves in a vulnerable position to reduce attendance at their own races! Having one track here, another track there place any kind of regulations on noise would not be a uniform enough rule to effect anything. It has to come from a high enough level that it effects bike manufacturers.

By the way...I never called anyone ignorant for buying a pipe for their bike. I would say that anyone not seeing the correlation between the noise issue and the closure of land/tracks, is ignorant to some very apparent facts.

  • KTMKarl

Posted March 01, 2006 - 10:11 AM

#49

Going back to the original inquiry, My advice is to think quiet and buy quiet, check out the Q type stuff if your going off-road and lean towards the AMA legal/FIM style pipes if your heading to the track only,(who really does this? I spend lots of hours at the local MX tracks and the only guys I know who ONLY ride the track are the posers who can't use 15 horsepower much less 51! ).

It makes no sense to buy anything that will not pass current AMA regs when the writing is so clearly on the wall. Times ARE changing....deal with it!

  • Lizard 1

Posted March 02, 2006 - 04:52 AM

#50

I oppose putting the resposibility on the track operator, he or she stands to lose money simply because the sanctioning bodies won't take a stand. A track CAN be in the "middle of nowhere" and have one bad nieghbor withen a couple of miles mess the whole deal up for everybody. I have seen it first hand.

If the opperator has some backing from an orginization it doesn't look like they are all alone in the fight and the they have been pro-active in imposing sound limitations. That can go a long way in SOME court rooms. Rght now it isn't happening.


Actually, I think having the track shut down due to high db levels is a pretty bad situation.

If the track imposes db levels that are acceptable to the county trustees and is recorded in record books, that track can show that it is trying to police the sound limits by imposing a db limitation from ANY machine at their facility when in use.

A big sanctioning body isn't going to be able to fight sqwat in court if that "one neighbor" knows their shit and walks down to the track during an open practice and records db levels and shows that the db levels are unacceptable.

Some places have db limits already imposed via law. If the db level is shown to be more than that, it can hurt the track no matter if it has sanctioning body support or not. Too often, tracks are closer and closer to housing developements. Which, sucks because those developements knew about the track going in, but later decide they have had enough and years later start to whine. Whatever, it happens.

Again, BFE tracks have nothing to worry about...now. If they start having housing put up near them in quantity, they are better off to be pro-active and pursue what can be done to keep the peace. If the courts state that the track is meeting the db levels that are acceptable, the complaining neighbors can only do just that - complain....

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  • Lizard 1

Posted March 02, 2006 - 05:06 AM

#51

This makes absolutely no sense!!!

Why would an individual track place themselves in a vulnerable position to reduce attendance at their own races! Having one track here, another track there place any kind of regulations on noise would not be a uniform enough rule to effect anything. It has to come from a high enough level that it effects bike manufacturers.

By the way...I never called anyone ignorant for buying a pipe for their bike. I would say that anyone not seeing the correlation between the noise issue and the closure of land/tracks, is ignorant to some very apparent facts.



You seriously don't get what I am saying. Here's the deal - I am not saying impose a uniform ruling. I am saying that the tracks need to be pro-active. They need to impose rules at THEIR tracks.

How's this for a reduction of attendance - Track gets closed for good!! Not very high on the things that make a business successful, is it?

Take a track that is in an area where housing is starting to pop up. If the track owner starts to become pro-active and goes to the county trustee or even the city's council members and asks what can be done to ensure the track's existance, how is that a bad start?

If he knows that he can help out his track by putting up trees, building up the earth, etc. to lessen the sound from traveling towards those houses, OR if he imposes a db level that is acceptable to the council and the trustee, why is that a bad thing?

The AMA has a db level - why can't tracks have one? So what if they are an outlaw track or just a practice only track? Shouldn't they also care about the community, care about noise, care about where we are currently?

I think bike owners ought to be conscious of what they do, but I think buying a pipe isn't a bad idea. Have you ever seen what the db levels are at an interstate that passes through a city? The dbs from an airport? The dbs from just your average city? How about the dbs from a combine working through the night to get the corn off? The dbs from the semi trucks that are delivering food to stores?

Decible levels are everywhere and they are well beyond 96-100dbs. If a track is responsible and builds the track to suit containing the noise and imposes some db level restrictions, our sport will be fine. I think the real issue is having guys like yourself who have their own tracks. You guys stand to loose your tracks the more and more houses get built up around you. I should know, my close friend has a track and the neighbors are complaining. What did he do? He went to the city council and the county trustee and got an ok from them. Basically, he was given a blessing, but had he done nothing at all, doubt it would still be there.

Be pro-active. That includes track owners...

  • Lizard 1

Posted March 02, 2006 - 05:13 AM

#52

Aford...I'll hand it to you, you must be one hell of a rider if you're using all the horsepower being put out by your 50hp 450. If you havent noticed, the top pros, including RC, have repeatedly said "it's no longer about the horspower."


I actually think I'm the one you're refering to. There are those who need more hp than stock. You honestly think RC's bike is close to stock hp? The point that RC is refering to is that hp isn't the big concern - the ride-ability of the machine, the smoothness, the riding style changes, etc. are the most important now. All the 4-strokes are powerful, but there aren't any that incorporate the stock exhaust and that are pumping out stock level hp.

Again, a pipe in conjunction with other add-ons can actually make a bike better in more ways than power. Tractability, smoothness, use of power at certain parts of the rev range, etc., etc., etc.

There are those who can use more than the 50 hp of their machines. Again, 50 hp on these for Supermoto use is not enough. Trust me, I can use all the 50 hp on my SUpermoto bike - that's why I need more. I'm used to wrestling 140+ hp on a road race bike... I am not any good in the dirt sections for Supermoto, but on the pavement, I am always wringing the throttle tube hoping I can get just that little bit more....

50 hp in the dirt for me is useless, but I have a few guys who are TRUE "A" Riders and they need more than stock power and stock delivery....

  • riderman329

Posted March 02, 2006 - 05:56 AM

#53

well i got my rocket slip on comming!!!

i'll give you a ride report in a few weeks!!!

  • cranky

Posted March 02, 2006 - 06:33 AM

#54

Right now I am looking at buying either a YZ450 or a RMZ450 after having only YZ's.I currently have two YZ250f's that the kid races.I thought I could find some good practical info on the new 06 YZ450f and after market pipes but I guess not.

  • Lizard 1

Posted March 02, 2006 - 07:18 AM

#55

Right now I am looking at buying either a YZ450 or a RMZ450 after having only YZ's.I currently have two YZ250f's that the kid races.I thought I could find some good practical info on the new 06 YZ450f and after market pipes but I guess not.


Sorry it took "political" turn...

I'd suggest the Factory 4.1 from FMF. I really like the build and the cost for a titanium system is great. If you're a woods guy, try the other systems they have - I just don't have experience with those.

The Dr. D is also a great looking system. It is stainless and probably what I will be getting if my deal falls through on the FMF. I like their welds and the system is much richer looking than most stainless systems look.

They also have a trick looking carbon can system out for the 2006s... I just kinda think that since FMF does a lot of the Troy Racing 250s, they are pretty knowledgable on YZs, but man, Dr.D's background is more than enough to make me consider those guys.

Just heard I can get a little more power out of the FMF, but that damn ti header has me worried. My last FMF got a few dents and a buddy's White Brothers Carbon Pro got some wrinkles from the header being hot under use and then cooling. I guess they sometimes warp, of sorts...

The only thing about the Dr. D Carbon and stainless and the Factory 4.1 system is that they has rivets. The rivets hold the hanger on, they are on the end caps, etc. The Factory 4.0 I had on my CRF had an old school band clamp and had screws... Might be a trend that everyone is going to, but the rivets always have me worried...

  • sbrown

Posted March 08, 2006 - 09:52 AM

#56

I agree with Extreme, the stock pipe works just fine. Spend your money on keeping new tires and a good chain and sprocket when the stock stuff wears out. These 450's have so much power stock, learn to use what you have. My 2cents. :thumbsup:

  • sbrown

Posted March 08, 2006 - 10:06 AM

#57

Originally posted by KTMKarl,
"if your heading to the track only,(who really does this? I spend lots of hours at the local MX tracks and the only guys I know who ONLY ride the track are the posers who can't use 15 horsepower much less 51! )."


KTMKarl,
Be careful when you make blanket statements. Most of the guys I ride with are hard-core motocrossers and don't ride anywhere but at a MX track. We like our 50 hp bikes and use them ONLY on MX tracks. Sure some riders are posers, but they have the right to pose and we don't mind smoking by them at the local MX track. In Arizona we have a rediculously long State MX Championship series that consists of 18 races spread thruout the year. When we are'nt racing my buddies and I are practicing at these tracks so we have a good chance of beting our competition. So, again, I think you should be more careful in your blanket statements if you want to be accurate in what you assert.

  • RoughR1der

Posted March 08, 2006 - 11:00 AM

#58

even though this wont make any diff what-so-ever my $0.02...

...if a track has been there before housing then they shouldnt be able to pass laws to shut it down. it's just like building houses near a highway, busy road, airport, landfill, sewage proccessing plant, prison, factory, etc. If ur buying the house you know its near some type of obnoxtion, deal with it or buy somewhere else!

na, let's just close the privately owned factory so there can be progression :thumbsup:

p.s. no flaming needed, i know there's valid counter points :thumbsup:

  • stknrdr

Posted March 08, 2006 - 12:43 PM

#59

Heres what Im doing...im ordering the PMB endcap with sparky, along with the nice quiet insert for it that I can take out or leave in according to my whim. Most likely Ill leave it in all the time. I ride a neighborhood track that is surrounded by houses and I know for an absolute certainty that I will not be able to do so without complaints from the stock pipe unmodified. If it cuts the power a bit it will probably make me faster

  • KTMKarl

Posted March 09, 2006 - 09:12 AM

#60

Maybe things are just different in AZ but here in the midwest, nearly everybody who rides MX ends up on a trail a few times during the year. It would be an awful shame if they didn't as they would be missing out on some of the best off-road in the country. We have a ton of cross-over types who ride/race both MX and off-road. Like I stated I DO know a few who never venture off the track but "hard core" they are not! Although there tats would argue otherwise,LOL! I'm sure there are exceptions as with any rule but they are certainly rare.
I like my 50 horse bike too, a loud pipe just aint gonna let me enjoy it as often.





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