Will a XR600 CDI box work on an XR650L?


148 replies to this topic
  • XR650L_Dave

Posted May 23, 2007 - 01:52 PM

#61

I'm too busy at the moment, but all you need is a 12vdc-120vac inverter (maybe that will have to be 200V?) that runs at a few-hundred Hz (400?) instead of 60Hz.
It could be as 'dumb' as taking an off-the-shelf cigarette lighter inverter and changing a resistor.

suharianu, can you also measure the voltage at the CDI input (not at the pulser input, but the input from the stator) and also the frequency?

Dave

  • Bibleman

Posted May 23, 2007 - 05:10 PM

#62

Boy, I bet if someone could figure all this out and make some sort of an adapter kit it would sell like hotcakes. I bet they'd be as popular as the temp dipsticks. Too bad I stink at electronics:prof:

  • suharianu

Posted May 23, 2007 - 08:51 PM

#63

From what I recall :when started ~60hz 100v peak ac
at high rpm a few hundred hertz (600) hz ~250v peak ac.
the capacitor charges to the peak voltage and when the triac fires thats
the voltage sent to ignition coil.
the exciter coil is a low current supply momentarily shorted each time the triac fires until the ac drops to zero,then it begins to charge the capacitor
again.

  • cleonard

Posted May 24, 2007 - 10:22 AM

#64

From what I recall :when started ~60hz 100v peak ac
at high rpm a few hundred hertz (600) hz ~250v peak ac.
the capacitor charges to the peak voltage and when the triac fires thats
the voltage sent to ignition coil.
the exciter coil is a low current supply momentarily shorted each time the triac fires until the ac drops to zero,then it begins to charge the capacitor
again.


Yes, that is just about correct. I think that it is an SCR not a triac, but that is a minor difference. When the SCR is fired it stays on until the exciter AC source goes to zero volts. That is why AC is important. If you supply DC the SCR just stays on and you only get the first spark.

No circuit is really needed. A correctly sized audio transformer could step up the lighting coil voltage to enough to operate the ignition. I have tested this and it works. The bigest issue is finding one that will not overheat with the waveform on the lighting side.

  • XR650L_Dave

Posted May 24, 2007 - 02:03 PM

#65

Yes, that is just about correct. I think that it is an SCR not a triac, but that is a minor difference. When the SCR is fired it stays on until the exciter AC source goes to zero volts. That is why AC is important. If you supply DC the SCR just stays on and you only get the first spark.

No circuit is really needed. A correctly sized audio transformer could step up the lighting coil voltage to enough to operate the ignition. I have tested this and it works. The bigest issue is finding one that will not overheat with the waveform on the lighting side.




What does the waveform look like? Voltage ramps up but then settles at a steady voltage for a small amount of time?

Shouldn't make a transformer heat up unless it looks like chopped DC, or unless it has a DC component.

What is the voltage of the XRL stator output, anyway- it was about 90 at cranking speed?

Dave

  • suharianu

Posted May 24, 2007 - 11:41 PM

#66

output of the exciter coil is basically a sinewave that increases in amplitude and frequency as rpm increases. someone openned a honda transalp cdi and since it has a battery they have a little inverter inside that chops the 12vdc
then increase the voltage to a 200vac which in turn supplies the scr anode.

  • TREADMARKS

Posted May 25, 2007 - 02:54 AM

#67

output of the exciter coil is basically a sinewave that increases in amplitude and frequency as rpm increases. someone openned a honda transalp cdi and since it has a battery they have a little inverter inside that chops the 12vdc
then increase the voltage to a 200vac which in turn supplies the scr anode.


Hmmm

Wonder what kind of curve the transalp has in it???

  • martinfan30

Posted May 25, 2007 - 09:11 AM

#68

any body ridden one? could that be aqn option?

  • martinfan30

Posted July 25, 2007 - 11:08 AM

#69

bump.

  • crmc33

Posted August 03, 2007 - 11:02 AM

#70

Hi,

I have a brand new XR600R CDI and ac stator/roto to fit to my XR650L.
I have problem tho....
Since the XRL wiring is different to the XR600R I dont know which colour wires go to which port on the CDI.
Can anyone help me?
There is a four plug and two plug connector. With the two plug connector on the right hand side what are the colours to the top and bottom terminals on the two plug connector, and the top/right, top/left, bottom/right and bottom/left colours on the four plug connector? I have a wiring digram for the rest of the loom so can sort all that out.

I just dont want to wire it up the wrong way and burn out the CDI!

Anyone help? I will be dynoing the bike so will report if it makes any performance difference.

Any help is much appreciated. A photo would be ideal!

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • martinfan30

Posted August 03, 2007 - 11:19 AM

#71

Hi,

I have a brand new XR600R CDI and ac stator/roto to fit to my XR650L.
I have problem tho....
Since the XRL wiring is different to the XR600R I dont know which colour wires go to which port on the CDI.
Can anyone help me?
There is a four plug and two plug connector. With the two plug connector on the right hand side what are the colours to the top and bottom terminals on the two plug connector, and the top/right, top/left, bottom/right and bottom/left colours on the four plug connector? I have a wiring digram for the rest of the loom so can sort all that out.

I just dont want to wire it up the wrong way and burn out the CDI!

Anyone help? I will be dynoing the bike so will report if it makes any performance difference.

Any help is much appreciated. A photo would be ideal!


http://www.thumperta...r600 cdi wiring

check out cleonards post halfway down the page. hope this helps.

  • crmc33

Posted August 03, 2007 - 01:00 PM

#72

PERFECT !!
:worthy: THANKS!

  • XR650L_Dave

Posted August 03, 2007 - 01:15 PM

#73

PERFECT !!
:worthy: THANKS!


Don't forget to let us know if there's a difference in the power!

Dave

  • rmhrc630

Posted August 03, 2007 - 09:37 PM

#74

How do you intend to power up the XR600R CDI?

You're running a 650l right? When I estarted my XR600 the XR600 CDI would not work on estart. So I fitted a XR650l CDI which allowed the estarter to work but restricted power

  • crmc33

Posted August 04, 2007 - 05:28 AM

#75

My bike is a road racer, push (bump) start only.
Ive been using the XRL (NX650) battery powered CDI so far.

In the process of fitting the 600R rotor and stator as well as the CDI.
Will make a minimlaist loom to power up the ignition (Dont think I'll even need a regulator as theres no lights)

  • crmc33

Posted August 05, 2007 - 01:42 AM

#76

Rest assured, I will post the dyno results:ride:

  • skillet

Posted August 15, 2007 - 06:35 PM

#77

Has anyone tried a GB500 CDI in the XR650l? It's basically the same engine and electrical system. The full advance on the 600r and 650L are about the same from what I can find 29-33 BTDC, just a difference in curve. But that GB500 is 10 degrees retarded, has a higher rev limit I think and likely a different curve:excuseme: Could the answer be so simple?

From GB500 FAQ
Honda RFVC CDI boxes
CDI part # idle advance full advance
MG3-003 6 BTDC below 1200 31 BTDC at 4000 - XR500R
MK6-671 8 BTDC below 1200 21 BTDC at 4000 - GB500 :excuseme:
MG2-871 11 BTDC below 1200 31 BTDC at 4000 - XL600
MG2-891 11 BTDC below 1200 31 BTDC at 4000
MG2-892 11 BTDC below 1200 31 BTDC at 4000

Model bore stroke
XR600 98mm 80mm (long stroke motor)
GB500 92mm 75mm (short stroke engine)
XL600 100mm 75mm (NZ, Australian model)
XR650L (NX650) 100mm 82mm (longer stroke again) (NX650 also called Dominator)

  • martinfan30

Posted August 16, 2007 - 07:18 AM

#78

with the gb500 cdi you are only getting 21 at 4000? even if it is a better curve, wouldnt that 10 less degress be an issue? assuming the xrl is 31 at 4000?

  • crmc33

Posted August 16, 2007 - 01:53 PM

#79

What could be done is to use a GB or XBR500 CDI and remount the pickup coil 8-10 degress round. the crank. This gives similar advance but with more rev capability.
I will give this a go at some stage. I spoke with an ex-XBR racer and he said he ran his XBR500 with 8deg of extra advance via the pick up mod. It made a healthy 49HP on the dyno with HRC cam and exhaust. My old 675 was only make 55, mind you his was with full open mega exh...!

  • skillet

Posted August 16, 2007 - 03:37 PM

#80

Someone correct me if I'm wrong...It's a common misconception that advancing the ignition automatically gives more power. The GB500 timing allows the piston to actually travel further before igniting the fuel/air mixture - meaning the mixture is compressed more. In high revving engines, there is an advantage to advancing the ignition, i.e. firing the plug further away from TDC because it takes some time for complete combustion and the piston is traveling at high speeds. But in a slow moving thumper piston, it seems that there could be an advantage to this situation. The mixture is more compressed and the piston/crank is 10 degrees closer to TDC before ignition. Bigger bang? The downside is the consideration of detonation and all the damage that can do. If you're already using a high compression piston, there could be a problem without high octane gas. The GB500 ran a stock ratio of 8.9:1 I believe.

When I used to race 650 Hawks, power was better if you could retard the ignition some. Iginition Advance is not always and automatically better.





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