What oil to use??


38 replies to this topic
  • cosmic_hippo

Posted February 18, 2006 - 03:25 PM

#1

Picked up my spankin' new WR450 last week. And after a couple of hours of riding last week and highs this weekend in the upper 20's -- I'm up for oil changing time.

Dealer said any multigrade would be fine. Traditionally I've been a Valvoline guy....but I wanted to see what everyone else is using.

Any recommendations for brands/weights for a predominantly Texas area rider?

Thanks!

  • Matty05

Posted February 18, 2006 - 04:02 PM

#2

Traditionally people use a mineral oil for break in period, changing the oil and filter after every ride / tank of fuel or so. This is because the clutch plates and gears shed a bit of metal as they bed in. Mineral oil provides less protection than synthetics, this is a good thing for break in period. If you use synthetic oil for break in, it will generally take a lot longer to break it in. The more you ride your bike, the better it will get. It will rev a lot more free, it will pick up a bit of power too.

Go to a synthetic or semi synthetic oil after break in. I changed from mineral oil at about 1000km (~600 mile) mark. Every one is different, but when you stop getting these metallic flakes and the oil stops looking like it has a metallic gleem to it, I would say you are good to change.

As for what weight of oil, a 10w-40 or 15w-50 would be good to use. You just got to keep on top of oil changes. The manual states every 1000kms (~600 mile) but that is way too long for me. An engine hour meter is a worth while investment, as it gives you engine running time. I would say every 5 hrs or so is good for me.

  • tony1970

Posted February 18, 2006 - 04:09 PM

#3

Don't use an automotive oil, they contain additives that will make your clutch slip. Use a good 4 stroke motorcycle oil. Yamalube, Maxima, do a search on this forum and you can read all day on the subject. Remember to change you filter also. Good luck.

  • WildRide

Posted February 18, 2006 - 04:52 PM

#4

Don't use an automotive oil, they contain additives that will make your clutch slip. Use a good 4 stroke motorcycle oil. Yamalube, Maxima, do a search on this forum and you can read all day on the subject. Remember to change you filter also. Good luck.


The clutch/oil statement is not true of all automotive oils as long as you avoid the ones with "energy conserving" stamp. My son has been using regular Valvoline dino oil (10-40 winter/ 20-50/summer) in his YZ250F for 3 years and has has zero trouble and has never needed a valve shim nor clutch. He changes it every other ride and cleans the oil filter every other change. BTW he REALLY rides his bike hard and if the oil was marginal at all I sure we would have found out by now.

My son sent me this link http://ducatimeccanica.com/oil.html

Other studies have shown than most "motorcycle rated oil" is nothing more than "diesel rated" oil relabeled. Diesel rated oil has additives for higher shear strength for viscosity retention which is good for withstanding the abuse that the transmission gears dish out. My son's logic is if he changes the oil really often he rids the bike of the transmission debris before it can do damage, and at $0.89/qt (on sale) it won't cost him a fortune. I would wager most of the metal flakes that we see in our oil filter are transmission gear debris. His bike sounds and runs perfect and it is looking like he is on to something.

  • jnybbad1l40

Posted February 18, 2006 - 07:32 PM

#5

As far as break in!! I have broke in ALL of my motors, race bike and car, the same way. Load tham heavily for the first 30 min or so. What I mean is load heavy for a few seconds and then a few seconds of easy throttle. If you have a race track this is the best. heavy throttle, no lugging, on the straights and easy on the turns. Whith this I have never had a failure and on rebuilds the cylinder and piston always look good. You need to load them so the rings seat into the cylinder as much as they can. This will reduce blow-bye and increase compression.

I have experimented on break in with synthetics also. My last motor has 2 seasons of supermoto on it. I pulled it apart and everything looks great. This motor had synthetic in it from day one. I still use non-synthetic for initial start up on bikes with complete new motors (gears, bearings etc). Then after the first 30 min goto synthetic.

I only use Amsoil in all my motors just because it has always tested good in my cars on oil analysis. I think that any good oil will be fine as long as you change it ofter. Bikes dont hold very much oil so its cheap insurance.

There are many thoughts on this but my way has always worked for me so Im sticking to it...

Good luck!!

  • OneToGo

Posted February 18, 2006 - 07:49 PM

#6

IMHO if you want a "GOOD" breakin read this:

Traditionally people use a mineral oil for break in period, changing the oil and filter after every ride / tank of fuel or so. This is because the clutch plates and gears shed a bit of metal as they bed in. Mineral oil provides less protection than synthetics, this is a good thing for break in period. If you use synthetic oil for break in, it will generally take a lot longer to break it in. The more you ride your bike, the better it will get. It will rev a lot more free, it will pick up a bit of power too.

Go to a synthetic or semi synthetic oil after break in. I changed from mineral oil at about 1000km (~600 mile) mark. Every one is different, but when you stop getting these metallic flakes and the oil stops looking like it has a metallic gleem to it, I would say you are good to change.

As for what weight of oil, a 10w-40 or 15w-50 would be good to use. You just got to keep on top of oil changes. The manual states every 1000kms (~600 mile) but that is way too long for me. An engine hour meter is a worth while investment, as it gives you engine running time. I would say every 5 hrs or so is good for me.


AND, have a look at these:
http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm
New Engine Break-in Procedure

http://mototuneusa.c..._in_secrets.htm
Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power

The bottom line: You dont need to "baby" your motor - bed it in and flush it out with frequent oil changes and filters as required. I personally would go about 500+ kms on mineral oils (10W-40 etc) but others have used synthetics (as above) with good results.


You'll also need to do the throttle stop mod if required before you complete the break-in. I've also heard that original clutches never last as long as susequent replacements, mainly due to the assembly lubes that manufacturers use. Cant substantiate this though. FYI

Cheers Colin
:thumbsup:

  • TWILES

Posted February 18, 2006 - 08:00 PM

#7

I use Yamalube 2040. Its a good oil. Its not like it cost $50 to change the oil like their making it out to be. You can get a cheap filter for $2-3. I can't remember exactly. My friend races his CRF450 and he just uses Rotella 15 40. He changes it all the time. I have used Yamalube in all my Yamaha's and Yamaha R oil for my Banshee. Its been the best as far as keeping the motor cool and not making noise on my WR and Banshee and other Yamaha atv's I've had. I used Honda oil in my wifes 450R and the clutch plates are swelling BAD. These motors get hot and the 2040 is heavy enough to keep it cool and I have had no problems with the clutch plates swelling like on my wifes quad. I ran Yamalube 2040 in the bottom end of my Banshee. Stick with the Yamalube oils since you've got a Yamaha. If you raced it hard like the guys son I'd probably go with a better oil like Golden Spectro but for regular riding I'd run the Yamalube 2040. I change mine about every 3 hard rides. Give or take.

  • nqglen

Posted February 19, 2006 - 05:22 AM

#8

Motor oils are specifically designed for the vehicle that is stated on the label. Oils designed for cars are certainly different than oils designed for bikes. Car oils have different additives in them to combat and carry out different jobs. For example, a diesel engine's combustion process produces sulphadyoxides that get into the oil and can be very corrosive. Diesel engine oils have additives that neutralise this byproduct and protect the engine components such as white metal bearings. Lets face it motor bike oils are not much more expensive than other oils and they don't use a hell of a lot. I certainly haven't seen a study reporting motor bike oil as being re-label diesel engine oil. When it comes down to it it is your bike and your money and you can use the oil that you feel safe in using. Do your engine break in as explained by Matt and OneToGo and then choose your oil or poison to what you feel safe in using. Most, if not all, your major brands make good quality bike oil, personally I use Motul and find it works well.

  • WildRide

Posted February 19, 2006 - 12:47 PM

#9

The only difference that I can see between my Nissan 5.6L V8 and my WR as far as far as engine design is that the WR shares oil supply with the transmission and clutch. They both are liquid cooled 4strokes, aluminum block and head, aluminum pistons, multivalve w/shim&bucket valve train and both go like stink. Other than the trans/clutch someone tell me specifically why the WR would require any different oil than this auto engine? They seem to have more in common than a lot of other auto engines do to each other.

  • clark4131

Posted February 19, 2006 - 01:38 PM

#10

Other than the trans/clutch someone tell me specifically why the WR would require any different oil than this auto engine?


1 cylinder vs. 8 cylinders. If you think the same environment exists inside both your Nissan and your WR, you're sorely mistaken. The WR redlines at 11,500, while your truck is probably in the 6 to 7,000 RPM arena, correct? The WR operates comfortably in an RPM range that would send your truck's engine to scrap heap in a short period of time. With that in mind, an oil that has higher shear strength designed for the WR's type of high performance engine is absolutely necessary in order to keep things from prematurely imploding. Do this little experiment...start your truck and your bike simultaneously and see which one gets hotter faster. That should tell you all you need to know...SC

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  • bg10459

Posted February 19, 2006 - 02:11 PM

#11

Other than the trans/clutch someone tell me specifically why the WR would require any different oil than this auto engine?


Isn't the shared trans/clutch reason enough? :thumbsup:

  • Numskull

Posted February 19, 2006 - 02:56 PM

#12

Yamalube 4 stroke oil was designed for your racing engine on the wr 450. Down in texas I bet the temps get pretty hot outside, so I would probally go with the 20wt50. It like $4.50 a quart and probally takes about 1 1/2qts.

The demands on the oil in this motor make it a good idea for frequent oil changes.

enjoy your new ride, and give her good oil. :thumbsup:

  • 642MX

Posted February 19, 2006 - 03:09 PM

#13

Rotella T 15W40. :thumbsup:

  • cosmic_hippo

Posted February 19, 2006 - 04:35 PM

#14

Fantastic info everybody...thanks!

Now to crack the book for my first oil change on my WR. I'm very fluent in oil changes on all my other equipment -- any special warnings for an oil change on the WR? I will be following the WR "bible" that came with it.

Thanks!

  • 642MX

Posted February 19, 2006 - 04:52 PM

#15

Fantastic info everybody...thanks!

Now to crack the book for my first oil change on my WR. I'm very fluent in oil changes on all my other equipment -- any special warnings for an oil change on the WR? I will be following the WR "bible" that came with it.

Thanks!




Oil comes out of the frame very fast, almost like its pressurized. You might want to turn the handlebars to get the tire out of the way of the oil stream.

  • TWILES

Posted February 19, 2006 - 06:04 PM

#16

Oil comes out of the frame very fast, almost like its pressurized. You might want to turn the handlebars to get the tire out of the way of the oil stream.

Like pee'n in a bucket. :thumbsup:

  • WildRide

Posted February 19, 2006 - 07:32 PM

#17

Do this little experiment...start your truck and your bike simultaneously and see which one gets hotter faster. That should tell you all you need to know...SC



Not a very good heat comparison since the heat dissipation (radiator) abilities of the truck are sized much larger for its engine size (for towing) than the space/weight limited radiator on the bike. I ran a 1983 Honda Interceptor street bike for 22+ years very hard with 11:1 Cr and a 11k redline on dino (non-energy conserving) auto oil (changed every 1500 miles) with absolutely no ill effects. the bike is still running strong today and has NEVER been torn down, does not burn a drop of oil and runs like new and still has the original clutch. To each his own, but I have proved to myself that frequent oil changes with regular dino motor oil (non-energy conserving) get the job done and I don't have to spend $5 or $6 a quart to have a long lasting engine. I have run Shell Rotella (dino) mainly in my ST with very good results also, but when I do not have any on hand I will not hesitate to run auto oil. IMHO frequent oil changes do more good for your engine than expensive snake oil.

  • broncomoto

Posted February 19, 2006 - 08:04 PM

#18

Should be purely a matter of API Rating. The Yamalube I bought (@5/qt) for my new '06 YZ450FV was "SJ". The Valvolene I was tempted to use was rated higher "SM". I'm going to change the oil afetr each hour of ride time no matter what, but I'd use the good stuff with enough verifyable reasons. Hech at 8k a pop, I'll probably use the good stuff anyway. Do tell...

  • nqglen

Posted February 20, 2006 - 06:17 AM

#19

WR engines are certainly performance engines with tolerances that I would expect to be a little more exact than a V8 truck engine. The heat generated by the WR engine, I would also assume, be far greater than a V8 truck engine as the energy produced is relative to the fuel put in and kilowatts produced. With a gearbox included in the engine comes a huge helping of friction and therefore more heat and with more friction and heat comes more abrasive wear. This is where synthetic oils or semi synthetic oils come into their own as they will work at hotter temps and maintain better shear stability that mineral oils. If you feel happy about using general purpose oil it is no skin of any body else’s nose. But one thing I can guarantee is you will be getting more wear in your engine than someone who is using a synthetic or semi synthetic. Oh, and throw the clutch plates in on the equation.

  • boer

Posted February 20, 2006 - 10:21 AM

#20

Is anyone using the Mobil 1 Racing 4T oil??




 
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