:censored:


17 replies to this topic
  • Dustin_Mabro

Posted January 04, 2006 - 10:57 AM

#1

:applause:

so i was changing the oil in my 426 and the clymer book, that i bought to replace the owners manual that i didn't get, tells me to remove the oil gallery bolt that goes into the head and pump the kick starter to make sure oil is flowing and that i didn't eff anything up. After doing that and seeing that everything is smooth as silk i proceed to gently resert bolt and be on my merry way...untill hell breaks loose and the effing thing won't tighten (only my second oil change) either i did on my last oil change or the guy before me over tightened it and this time it pulled all the threads out. Now the guy called me and said that because of where it's located the motor will have to be pulled out to do it....

i'm picking it up after work to pull the motor myself screw paying $200 for a $3 part and the tapping of a hole. :bonk:

  • dmoney2023

Posted January 04, 2006 - 11:57 AM

#2

I did the same damn thing. I haven't touched the bolt since I stripped it out though and it doesn't really leak, just a very small amount of oil there after a day of riding. I'll probably just leave it.

I felt like such an idiot when I did it.

  • kawirider

Posted January 04, 2006 - 12:04 PM

#3

I did the same thing on my dads '02 WR. Barely even tightened it, and the head of the bolt just popped off. Luckily, we managed to get it out with one of those thing where you drill in, and it will bring it out for you.

  • Dustin_Mabro

Posted January 04, 2006 - 12:09 PM

#4

i'm going to borrow my uncles heated garage (michigan winter...warm right now but not for long) and while i have it in pieces i'm thinking about doing some other stuff....

just pisses me off though....nothing comes easy

  • ESC

Posted January 04, 2006 - 12:18 PM

#5

That sucks...I use a torque wrench for everything I can find a spec on after reading several stories like this one.

  • TeamEndo

Posted January 04, 2006 - 12:43 PM

#6

Man, i've never pulled that plug out once. I've had a YZ400, maintain my girls WR250, and my new 450 and just don't see the logic in doing it. Maybe I'm tempting fate, but assuming you know which way an oil filter goes in and how much fluid you replaced, how could your engine suddenly be screwed up after an oil change? Has anybody changed their oil (correctly) on their YZ only to start it up and blow up from oil starvation? Just curious.

  • RD73

Posted January 04, 2006 - 12:55 PM

#7

Where is this bolt on a 426?

  • grayracer513

Posted January 04, 2006 - 01:11 PM

#8

$200? And they have customers?

  • ESC

Posted January 04, 2006 - 01:37 PM

#9

$200? And they have customers?


rich ones......

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • 00YZ426FMRCD

Posted January 04, 2006 - 04:48 PM

#10

:applause:

so i was changing the oil in my 426 and the clymer book, that i bought to replace the owners manual that i didn't get, tells me to remove the oil gallery bolt that goes into the head and pump the kick starter to make sure oil is flowing and that i didn't eff anything up. After doing that and seeing that everything is smooth as silk i proceed to gently resert bolt and be on my merry way...untill hell breaks loose and the effing thing won't tighten (only my second oil change) either i did on my last oil change or the guy before me over tightened it and this time it pulled all the threads out. Now the guy called me and said that because of where it's located the motor will have to be pulled out to do it....

i'm picking it up after work to pull the motor myself screw paying $200 for a $3 part and the tapping of a hole. :bonk:


The factory 426 manual mentions something like:

"Slightly loosen the oil gallery bolt"
"Start the engine and keep it idling until oil starts to seep from the oil gallery bolt. If no oil comes out after 1 minute, turn off the engine so it will not seize"
"Check oil passages oil filter and pump for damage or leakage"
"Start the engine after solving the problem(s) (IF ANY) and recheck the oil pressure.
"Tighten to the oil gallery bolt to specification"

* The Oil gallery bolt spec is 13ft Lb.

I have never removed the oil gallery bolt. I have only loosened it a couple of times. (1st couple of oil changes) until I felt comfortable with the process. I only very occasionally loosen it (with the engine idling) to check for oil flow. If the filter is in correctly everything should be good. (I think it only goes on one way anyway)

These things happen when you work/ride these things. I would be careful about using a Torque wrench on some of the bolts like the oil gallery bolt. Just a couple of weeks ago I broke off one of the front axle bolts on one of my newly rebuilt front forks. That really pissed me off and I had a difficult time getting the bolt out and had to take the fork back off the bike. I really think that many of the torque specs are way over done. (Yes I am prepared for a lashing on torquing everthing to spec) I tighten smaller bolts by "feel" obviously an an engine rebuilt torque specs should be followed as close as possible.

  • sirthumpalot

Posted January 04, 2006 - 04:53 PM

#11

When using a torque wrench, especially on these delicate nuts and bolts, you must use a good torque wrench. The $10 special from the local parts store might not be accurate enough at these small settings and you could end up with stripped bolts. Drop the cash for a good one and save yourself trouble in the future. Sorry to hear about the stripped bolt, I hope it ends up being a relatively easy fix.

  • 7111

Posted January 04, 2006 - 06:03 PM

#12

Dud, Here is the quick fix without being raped $200+ for nothing.

Thread the bolt back in and spin it to remove any debris. Spin it around and pull it out.
Get a Shop Vac and tape the nozzle up leaving a small hole in it so that is sucks from a little opening ( a little bigger than the bolt hole).
Place the nozzle against the hole for the bolt to vacuum any debris out of it.
Get a Q-Tip and insert it while rotating it to remove any excess debris. Get another Q-Tip with oil on it and do it again.

DO BOTH OF THESE SEVERAL TIMES TO CLEAN AND ANY METAL SHARDS OUT OF THE HEAD.

Next install a Heli-coil (which is what some of these guys are referring to) you drill and tap it, then install the Heli-coil and the original size bolt can be used again.

This happened to me on my 426 and this is exactally what I did. No problems what so ever. You can pay around $250+ to fix it the way the shop is telling you or do it for about $20 this way. As long as no dirt or contaminates got in the hear AND YOU CLEAN IT OUT GOOD, you should have no problems and be back in business this weekend.
THE BIGGEST THING IS TO CLEAN ANY AND ALL DEBRIS YOU CAN FROM THE HEAD. Clean it now a few times, drill it and clean it a few times, tap it and clean a few times, install the helicoil and clean it a few times....you get the point..................

Oh and run the engine for about 10 minutes (in a field, not idling) and change the oil. Any debris (microscopic) that is in the head and spills back down into the crank case will have the best chance of being removed and not circulated. There should really be almost nothing there but worst case the oil filter will grab it.

Good luck and do what you feel most comfortable with..............

  • WR450F_RDR

Posted January 04, 2006 - 07:20 PM

#13

Loosening the oil gallery bolt is also a method of removing any excess air bubbles in the oil lubricating system, as well as checking flow.

  • Dustin_Mabro

Posted January 05, 2006 - 05:16 AM

#14

Dud, Here is the quick fix without being raped $200+ for nothing.

Thread the bolt back in and spin it to remove any debris. Spin it around and pull it out.
Get a Shop Vac and tape the nozzle up leaving a small hole in it so that is sucks from a little opening ( a little bigger than the bolt hole).
Place the nozzle against the hole for the bolt to vacuum any debris out of it.
Get a Q-Tip and insert it while rotating it to remove any excess debris. Get another Q-Tip with oil on it and do it again.

DO BOTH OF THESE SEVERAL TIMES TO CLEAN AND ANY METAL SHARDS OUT OF THE HEAD.

Next install a Heli-coil (which is what some of these guys are referring to) you drill and tap it, then install the Heli-coil and the original size bolt can be used again.

This happened to me on my 426 and this is exactally what I did. No problems what so ever. You can pay around $250+ to fix it the way the shop is telling you or do it for about $20 this way. As long as no dirt or contaminates got in the hear AND YOU CLEAN IT OUT GOOD, you should have no problems and be back in business this weekend.
THE BIGGEST THING IS TO CLEAN ANY AND ALL DEBRIS YOU CAN FROM THE HEAD. Clean it now a few times, drill it and clean it a few times, tap it and clean a few times, install the helicoil and clean it a few times....you get the point..................

Oh and run the engine for about 10 minutes (in a field, not idling) and change the oil. Any debris (microscopic) that is in the head and spills back down into the crank case will have the best chance of being removed and not circulated. There should really be almost nothing there but worst case the oil filter will grab it.

Good luck and do what you feel most comfortable with..............


the shop was planning on putting in the heli-coil but said they couldn't get to it so they wanted the engine out (either me doing it or the shop doing it for $200) Last night i took it to my uncles and he thinks it can be done with the right tools with out removing the engine so we're gonna try. I am really worried about debris from drilling and tapping. But is that what running it will help solve...run it right after so that everything gets filtered right away? Also if i do this myself is there anything i have to worry about like...drilling to deep or something?

and thanks for all the replies guys

  • 7111

Posted January 05, 2006 - 05:56 AM

#15

Sir,
The shop doesn't sound to competent. I've done it before and had no problem with any of it. Look at where the engine gallery bolt is. There is no reason to extract the engine.
Now, in regards to contaminates, running the engine is not what is important. That will just help flush the system.

WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS: keep everything clean!!
AND WHEN YOU DRILL OUT THE HOLE, JUST GO DEEP ENOUGH TO REMOVE THE THREADED AREA. DO NOT PUSH THE DRILL BIT ANY FURTHER IN THE HEAD THAN THE THREAD DEPTH. The thread depth should only be about 12 to 16 mm or so deep. Just use a flash light and look to see the thread depth.
Don't forget to use the Shop-Vac like I said to remove and loose debris.

P/S: You can measure the thread depth, then measure from the end of the drill bit back and put a piece of tape on the drill bit. This way you know when you are getting near the end of the threads or if your about to go to deep.

  • 7111

Posted January 05, 2006 - 06:11 AM

#16

One last thing. When you drill it, lean the bike a little to the left. As you drill go in about 5 mm and pull out, now vacuum, go in another 5 mm and pull out and vacuum. Once your done drilling and vacuuming, lean the bike all the way over on the left so that any oil in the head will pour out the gallery bolt hole. This, again, will help with removing contaminates.

The idea I'm trying to express is keep it as clean as you can...

  • Dustin_Mabro

Posted January 05, 2006 - 06:23 AM

#17

711,
a lot of these ideas i already had but was still un-easy about effing something up.

thanks everyone for your input i am now at ease and i think that with a few purchases i'll have everything i need to do it myself (parts and knowledge)

thanks tons

  • grayracer513

Posted January 05, 2006 - 07:48 AM

#18

One of the things some of you are missing is that the 426 does not have a discreet, separate oil pressure check bolt as the 250F and 450F do. The gallery bolt used is the rear-facing oil feed banjo bolt at the head. It faces straight backwards, and as such is impossible to drill out using standard equipment with the whole bike assembled. However, a skilled tech with a right angled drill head and a short drill could do it by rolling the carb over a little.

Applying grease to the drill bit and tap used will pick up a lot of the chips. The most certain way to deal with them is to remove the cam cover and intake cam before reassembling the oil lines and blowing the passage clean from the oil feed hole leading to the intake cam cap. The passage is only about 3/4" long between there and the outside.

Also noteworthy is that while the torque for the banjo bolt is 13 ft/lb, the oil pressure check bolts on the 250F and 450 are much smaller, and are tightened to 7.2 ft/lb.





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