Got new Needles/Jets need help!



18 replies to this topic
  • TeamScream

Posted September 04, 2001 - 06:41 PM

#1

I am having an issue with my 01'426-

I tried to get the EKN needle as suggested by James but on my trip to Sudco today they did not have the EKN or the EKP (nor could they order these) but offered (and I bought) the following needles:
EFN,EMM,EMP

I put the following setup in my bike tonight:

EMM @ clip #2
#100 PAJ
#48 Pilot
#168 Main
1 turn out on the screw @ sea level and 72 degrees F.

The bike seems to pull very hard from 1/2 throttle to WOT and seems to have a lot more power in that range but there is a definate sputter and hesitation from 1/8 throttle to around 1/4 throttle, and at constant throttle position in that range.

I also have jets on either side of all the jets I mentioned above, meaning one size up and one size down as well as a several size mains up and down.

I just did the YZ timing mod last night and the BK mod the night before, no air box lid, gray wire clipped and K&N air filter.

Does anyone have any tips on where I may be off here? seems like I am pretty close since it pulls so hard up top and from 0 throttle to 1/8 it seems good, its just that 1/8 - 1/4 area that is giving me fits here.
Thanks alot for any help fellas!

Dauv

  • TeamScream

Posted September 04, 2001 - 08:11 PM

#2

I should also mention that I have the stock pipe with the baffle out, and the bike is less than a week old (still within its first 4 hours of run-in). I am taking it rather easy but there is definately something wrong at the low throttle postion.
HELP!

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01' WR426,YZ timing,BK mod, stock pipe-no baffle, no airbox lid or gray wire, throttle stop mod,CA Street Legal (sort of) Pure Super Motard w/17 in. wheels, 15/46 gears,ProTaper bars, waiting for needles and jets

  • James_Dean

Posted September 04, 2001 - 08:16 PM

#3

OK,

Willing to experiment?-
Try clip EMM#5 (or #4) with your accel pump set to a short duration of about 1 turn. Other settings, #48 pilot, 1 turn and #168 main. This will be an aggressive setting with max response and jetting close to '01YZ426. Let us know how it compares for quick response. This configuration might show up on future YZ's with a #42-#45 pilot based on the trends. Your low altitude and temp should be an advantage.

Next choices, EFN#2 or EMP#5 or #4(typical setting)



[This message has been edited by James Dean (edited September 04, 2001).]

  • TeamScream

Posted September 04, 2001 - 08:48 PM

#4

James
What do you mean set the accelerator pump to 1 turn? I am confused....I did the BK mod and have the squirt set to right around .3 secs duration and just barely missing the slide as it rises, I am totaly willing to experiment, Sorry ya lost me there...
Dauv

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01' WR426,YZ timing,BK mod, stock pipe-no baffle, no airbox lid or gray wire, throttle stop mod,CA Street Legal (sort of) Pure Super Motard w/17 in. wheels, 15/46 gears,ProTaper bars, waiting for needles and jets

  • slashman

Posted September 05, 2001 - 12:43 AM

#5

team

you can get the EKP and the EKN from yamaha. i ordered the EKP 2 days ago. i will e-mail you the part numbers. they are also in a post under one of the other jetting topics. i can not wait to try the the EKP needle.i would like to know how the EFN needle works out. mine is set up as follows

paj#75
EJP needle clip#3
165 mj
#45pj
2 7/8 -3 turns out can not rember. air box lid gone throttle stop gone K&N filter TPS set for max timing(most resistance)gray wire out of plug.stock pipe unplugged.
i am going to go to a #48pj and screw it in 1 1/2 turns from here. i have not done the BK mod yet i do not know if it is necessary. i would like to hear some feed back on the BK mod. with this latest setting the bike is much smoother and does not rip the front wheel off the ground so hard. i have 700mi. on the bike and have not yet fouled a plug(good or bad do not know?) also if lkyou go to carbparts.com they have a decoder chart that lets you know what each letter in each position means.

------------------
wr42601
not yz timmed yet
some mods

  • James_Dean

Posted September 05, 2001 - 06:36 AM

#6

If you timed the pump, then that is good enough. You will find that turning the adjustment screw in will stop the flow and it takes about 3/4-1 turn to stop it. The 1 turn was referring to how far out it would be from zero flow.

  • TeamScream

Posted September 05, 2001 - 08:15 AM

#7

Ok James I put it to clip #5 on the needle (EMM) and took it for a squirt around the block, seems to be a little better but still a little rough at constant throttle in the 1/16 to 1/4 range, idles great and has FANTASTIC snappy response at anything above the 1/4 throttle, I also opened the screw by another 1/4 turn (out) to see if that made a diff and it did not seem to help any, seems to have WAY more power up top with this setting (needle/jets combo), the result I am striving for here is a smooth linear power curve throughout acceleration (throttle position), keep in mind that I am trying to tune this thing to slide on the pavement under control and the ability to apply power to keep the rear wheel spinning from throttle closed "backing it in" is paramount.
I think we are going the right way however.


------------------
01' WR426,YZ timing,EMM #5,#48Pilot,#100PAJ,#168 Main,BK mod,stock pipe-no baffle, open airbox,Gray-Wire,K&N, throttle stop mod,CA Street Legal (sort of) Pure Super Motard w/17 in. wheels, 15/46 gears,ProTaper bars,

  • WRFUN

Posted September 05, 2001 - 11:56 AM

#8

TO ALL,

Does going to YZ timing make that big of a difference. I want to do it, but I don't want the jetting nightmares :). I want the extra power, but I want to ride more than work on this thing. What do you think.

Thanks,

Pete

  • James_Dean

Posted September 05, 2001 - 12:12 PM

#9

The richness 1/16 to 1/4 throttle is a combination of the last letter M(2.715mm straight diameter) and clip position #5 on the EM- needle.

Considering the application, switch the needle to EMP#5 (2.735mm) and leave the rest unchanged. This is the same as EKP#4.

After the low throttle jetting gets dialed try a #172 main to compare WOT.

Pete, the jetting makes as much or more difference than cam timing. Simply get an '01YZ426 needle and put it in to see (OBEJP clip #3). I think you will find it worth the effort.

[This message has been edited by James Dean (edited September 05, 2001).]

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  • TeamScream

Posted September 05, 2001 - 02:49 PM

#10

Ok James after an all day session with this thing I appear to be going in circles, I tried every clip on the EMM needle and also went back to the #75 air jet and tried all the clips again, then I tried EFN needle and tried every clip and did the same thing with the #100 air jet, the symptoms seemed to get a little better with the EFN needle but the problem still persistedP:a sputtering and hesitation at low throttle position (1/8 - 1/4) then I went to them EMP needle at clip #3 and the #75 air jet, the hesitation seemed to almost go away, so then I went to a #95 air jet, the hesitation and sputtering are almost gone but now there is a MAJOR bog/hesitation when I try to gun it hard from 0 throttle, however if I nurse it past the "bog" then get to the more open throttle positions the bike pulls harder than hell.
The best 1/2 to WOT results were had with the EMM needle at clip 5 but the 1/8 to 1/4 throttle was totaly un rideable.
Again current config:

EMP #3
#168 Main
#95 Air
#48 Pilot
YZ timing, BK Mod, K&N filter, no airbox lid, stock pipe no baffle, SEA level 75-80 degrees F.
This is really frustrating....

  • TeamScream

Posted September 05, 2001 - 03:57 PM

#11

ok just switched to clip #5 on the EMP needle and that seemed to help substantially
also I noticed the AF screw seemed to have backed itself out QUITE a few turns? it was at like 3+1/2 turns out! now I know for a fact that I set it at 1 turn out as directed by James and after all this messing around I just checked it again to find it WAY out. I put it back to 1 turn out and just took it on a quick test drive, seems to be GREAT at the lower throttle positions now (1/16 - 1/4) but I can say for sure that it does not have the punch up top that it did with the other combo's and settings...heres where I am at now:

EMP #5
#168 Main
#95 Air
#48 Pilot
YZ timing, BK Mod, K&N filter, no airbox lid, stock pipe no baffle, SEA level 75-80 degrees F.

I am thinking that now the low end is reasonable (wont know for sure till I can get a good full test drive in) and that the top end can be brought back around with a bigger main jet? Question: do you think I should go back to the #100 Air from the #95 ?
the mid hit seems good and the 1/2 to WOT seems ok but seems to have lost a bit from this current needle. Please let me know..
Thanks...
Dauv

  • James_Dean

Posted September 05, 2001 - 06:45 PM

#12

Suggestion:

#48 pilot
#100 pilot air
1 turn
EMP#5 (same as EKP#4)
172 main

This is virtually a "standard" recommendation.

The pilot screw at 3 1/2 has me questioning test results with the EMM#3-5. Any setting more than about 1 1/2 turns out with the #48 is very rich on the pilot circuit. Looks like it was left from the #45 pilot unfortunately.

EFN is very rich in most positions from the "F" dimension (L1)unless the clip is set higher, results were expected as such. EFN #2 clip is nearly where you are at.


[This message has been edited by James Dean (edited September 05, 2001).]

  • TeamScream

Posted September 05, 2001 - 08:00 PM

#13

Hey James,
when you say "Standard" recomendation does that mean this is a basic setting with less performance possibilites than the EKN for example? ???

  • TeamScream

Posted September 05, 2001 - 08:14 PM

#14

Ok James I wanted to report that I went to the local "Super Motard" Track (the local Mega Mall parking lot) tonight to test this setting really well and I can say that it seems to still be missing at low throttle positions, now i can say that the ride there was about 5 minutes and then I took a few slow laps to get the feel of the turns then I opened it up for about 10-15 minutes of pretty hard laps, it ran well down low as long as I didnt try to "coast" around corners with the throttle just 'cracked" open so I am not really sure whats up here again? after the session (with 3 different police cars sitting there watching me) I rode home, NOW the low throttle positions dont seem nearly as bad as they were with the other needles but there is definately still a miss/sputter at small throttle openings (1/16-1/4) FUNNY thing however when I stopped at the stop lights and when I got home the idle stayed high for a few seconds after closing the throttle leading me to think there is a slight lean condition somewhere around idle? what in the world is going on here? I will try your suggestions first thing in the morning and take it to the parking lot again before the Mall opens for a full burst test session and let you know but I feel like I am chasing my tail here.

------------------
01' WR426,YZ timing,EMM #5,#48Pilot,#100PAJ,#168 Main,BK mod,stock pipe-no baffle, open airbox,Gray-Wire,K&N, throttle stop mod,CA Street Legal (sort of) Pure Super Motard w/17 in. wheels, 15/46 gears,ProTaper bars,

  • James_Dean

Posted September 06, 2001 - 07:16 AM

#15

Your observations sound like lean at idle and slightly rich above. The "standard" is referring to a fairly reliable setting for a wide range of conditions. Wicking the throttle open needs richer jetting and smooth steady operation may need leaner. Exhaust types/ altitude/ airbox mods/ etc. all alter the setting.

Be sure to read this article: www.lifenet.com/brm/carbkei.htm

The next step may be to turn the pilot screw out 1/8 turn at a time to cure the fast idle(starting at 1 turn). The rich condition (I think) at 1/4 will need EMP clip #4 if it persists and is a problem. The 3/4-WOT may be better with a #172, experimenting with the main is simpler.

James

[This message has been edited by James Dean (edited September 06, 2001).]

  • TeamScream

Posted September 06, 2001 - 02:57 PM

#16

Ok James;
switching to #100 pilot air and #172 main made the top end and mid hit feel much stronger and cured (mostly) the sputtering and hesitstion at 1/16-1/4 throttle, the bike feels great at constant RPM with the throttle at 1/8 (there about) but there is this little nagging issue still:
after a hard (3/4 to full throttle) acceleration then returning to 1/8 throttle (like accelerating hard to a corner and then railing through it) I get the sputter and pop that was happening at low throttle or constant (low) throttle.

As far as the rest of it go's this was a good call on your behalf and one that was echoed by the guys at Factory Pro (one of my sponsors) going up with the main jet he said would help the rest of the range, and it seemed to do just that. I am a perfectionist and I will work hard and try whatever it takes to get it just right,another suggestion he made was if this setting didnt 'fix' the problem go back down to a #45 pilot, what are your thoughts on that>?
THANKS for all of your help it is greatly appreciated! heres the setup so far: the others are in my signature.

EMP #5
#172 Main
#48 Pilot
#100 Pilot Air


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01' WR426,YZ timing,EMP #5,#48Pilot,#100PAJ,#172 Main,BK mod,stock pipe-no baffle, open airbox,Gray-Wire Pulled,K&N Filter, throttle stop mod,CA Street Legal (sort of) Pure Super Motard w/17 in. wheels, 15/46 gears,ProTaper bars,

  • James_Dean

Posted September 06, 2001 - 05:59 PM

#17

The mystery continues-

Sputter is usually an indication of rich jetting, but popping happens more often when lean. Which is it? I'm unsure.

Are you at 1 turn out on the pilot screw? Try going out 1/4 on the pilot screw (1 1/4), and then in 1/4 ( at 3/4), to compare the feel. If this is actually over richness and the pilot screw is too lean at idle, then go for clip #4 and play with the pilot screw some more.

With all your wonderful testing you are still migrating to the same positions I was at last year with an arsenal of needles. Go figure. :) I thought you might find a better setting with the EMM in your conditions.

James

  • TeamScream

Posted September 06, 2001 - 10:09 PM

#18

Sorry James its NOT a popping like a backfire...its more of a sputter or a miss if you will, I will go another 1/4 turn on the screw tomorrow morning and take it for a spin, I will report my findings after that...thansk for hanging in there with me!

------------------
01' WR426,YZ timing,EMP #5,#48Pilot,#100PAJ,#172 Main,BK mod,stock pipe-no baffle, open airbox,Gray-Wire Pulled,K&N Filter, throttle stop mod,CA Street Legal (sort of) Pure Super Motard w/17 in. wheels, 15/46 gears,ProTaper bars,

  • TeamScream

Posted September 06, 2001 - 10:12 PM

#19

you know also ...not being totaly satisfied with the current state of things I will re visit the EMM assuming that the screw was out of whack on the first go round, I will not write it off without POSITIVE confirmed data that it does NOT work, and as we stand there is a bit of concern that the test was erroneous due to possible screw anomalies.




 
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