06 side cover "oil galley plugs"


15 replies to this topic
  • kelstr

Posted December 11, 2005 - 05:43 PM

#1

you guys need to check the two oil galley plugs in your left side cover , !!!

if you look at the left side cover you will see a ft aluminum little plug blocking off a main oil galley , and then on the rear lower part of the side cover there is another block off galley plug,

the lower galley plug blew out of a guys bike and it lost the oil immediately and locked up the motor on the first ride, :ride:

there is enough room to stake the plugs and to epoxy them on so it wont happen to you on your new bike.!!

you know that if one did it there will be more,

so just restake yours so it can't happen !! :applause:

  • grayracer513

Posted December 11, 2005 - 06:02 PM

#2

If my understanding of the new oil system layout is correct, the oil passageway referred to here is the feed from the internal "tank" to the oil pump, which passes through a drillway in the ignition cover, rather than through an external line. There would be no pressure on the feed line, but if one of the plugs were inserted poorly enough that it went missing, it would drain the oil reservoir, and no one needs that. Probably a good thing to check.

  • SureBlue

Posted December 11, 2005 - 06:09 PM

#3

Thanks for the warning. A demonstrative pic would be nice.

  • kelstr

Posted December 11, 2005 - 07:28 PM

#4

Thanks for the warning. A demonstrative pic would be nice.

yes i need to get the stuff and learn how to put up picks and stuff :ride:

the little aluminum plugs are easy to see and they are just slightly oversized and pressed into a galley where they needed to gain access to the galley for cleaning the sand out after making the blank or a test port or whatever,

but they needed to plug it after it was made .

they are recessed into the galley and leave a 1/4" of galley hanging over the length of the plug,
this could be peened and or staked in smaller jamming the plug and then it could be filled with a devcon epoxy and it would not ever come out.

or if it were mine or a customers bike , i think i would pull the cover off and drill and pull both plugs out, thread both holes and i would locktight some threaded allen head block off plugs in the thing and be done with it :applause:

  • kelstr

Posted December 11, 2005 - 07:35 PM

#5

If my understanding of the new oil system layout is correct, the oil passageway referred to here is the feed from the internal "tank" to the oil pump, which passes through a drillway in the ignition cover, rather than through an external line. There would be no pressure on the feed line, but if one of the plugs were inserted poorly enough that it went missing, it would drain the oil reservoir, and no one needs that. Probably a good thing to check.

yes they are setting it up like the hondas , it really is way cleaner this way :applause: ,

but the plugs could have been done in a different mannor like the honda did ,
where they used a second casting process after installing the plugs and then cast over the plugs and there is no way they could ever come out !

  • grayracer513

Posted December 11, 2005 - 11:06 PM

#6

The oiling system is still a dry sump, which is considerably different than the CRF, which is a wet sump engine and an isolated transmission. The difference in the '06 YZ450 is that the oil "tank" is now integrated into the engine cases in an area ahead of the crankcase itself. This fact does not make it a wet sump, since the oil is still removed from the sump itself and returned by a scavenging pump to the oil tank. The tank just happens to be a part of the engine assembly. They appear to have reversed the direction that the oil flows in the sense that the feed oil is now on the left and the return on the right, and the return is still an external line. But it is absolutely not "like a Honda" any more than last year's was.

  • kelstr

Posted December 12, 2005 - 06:38 AM

#7

The oiling system is still a dry sump, which is considerably different than the CRF, which is a wet sump engine and an isolated transmission. The difference in the '06 YZ450 is that the oil "tank" is now integrated into the engine cases in an area ahead of the crankcase itself. This fact does not make it a wet sump, since the oil is still removed from the sump itself and returned by a scavenging pump to the oil tank. The tank just happens to be a part of the engine assembly. They appear to have reversed the direction that the oil flows in the sense that the feed oil is now on the left and the return on the right, and the return is still an external line. But it is absolutely not "like a Honda" any more than last year's was.

the crf's are also a dry sump :ride: ,( and has been from the first crf )
they just don't look like one ,
in the center cases there is a separation scavenge valve that the drain off oil from the crank gets forced through back into the sump pump area , thus keeping the crank area dry and free to spin and stay out of the oil, totally separating the crank from the sump , ( coolest dry sump out there )
honda just does it with less weight and moving parts and no lines, and has a patten on it,

but yamahas cover is what i was referring to as the copy on where the oil gallies run ,( They have to start somewere )

the factories don't want any external lines on the things , and it is just a matter of time before they will all be a self contained system with less weight ! :applause:

  • grayracer513

Posted December 12, 2005 - 07:56 AM

#8

Honda's CRF is a wet sump, plain and simple. It is more sophisticated than the simplest designs in that it has swing baffling (what you call a scavenge valve) and other weiring to help prevent oil windage around the crank.

That, however, is not what characterizes a dry sump engine.

In a wet sump, oil is drawn from the sump by the single oil pump and circulated, after which it drains by a combination of gravity and in some cases, as in the CRF, some assistance from crankcase air pumping and baffling, back to the sump to start again.

To qualify as a true dry sump, the engine must have two oil pumps, and a storage area, or reservoir located away from the crankcase. As with the wet sump, oil is removed from storage by the feed pump and circulated, after which it drains back to the crankcase, same as a wet sump. But it is here that the difference exists, because the second oil pump, ususally with a volume capacity of at least 200% of that of the feed pump, immediately picks up all oil it finds and returns it to the oil tank, whether it is a separated chamber within the engine, or a tank mounted on the frame, or anywhere else it might be.

The Honda has no such scavenging pump, and its oil storage is directly adjacent and connected to the crankcase, thus it is a wet sump. The YZ450 has both pumps, as it always has, and the oil tank is every bit as separate from the engine as it was when it was in the frame (except thermally, of course), since it is still only connected to the engine itself by way of the feed and scavenge pumps.

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  • kelstr

Posted December 12, 2005 - 01:54 PM

#9

Honda's CRF is a wet sump, plain and simple. It is more sophisticated than the simplest designs in that it has swing baffling (what you call a scavenge valve) and other weiring to help prevent oil windage around the crank.

That, however, is not what characterizes a dry sump engine.

In a wet sump, oil is drawn from the sump by the single oil pump and circulated, after which it drains by a combination of gravity and in some cases, as in the CRF, some assistance from crankcase air pumping and baffling, back to the sump to start again.

To qualify as a true dry sump, the engine must have two oil pumps, and a storage area, or reservoir located away from the crankcase. As with the wet sump, oil is removed from storage by the feed pump and circulated, after which it drains back to the crankcase, same as a wet sump. But it is here that the difference exists, because the second oil pump, ususally with a volume capacity of at least 200% of that of the feed pump, immediately picks up all oil it finds and returns it to the oil tank, whether it is a separated chamber within the engine, or a tank mounted on the frame, or anywhere else it might be.

The Honda has no such scavenging pump, and its oil storage is directly adjacent and connected to the crankcase, thus it is a wet sump. The YZ450 has both pumps, as it always has, and the oil tank is every bit as separate from the engine as it was when it was in the frame (except thermally, of course), since it is still only connected to the engine itself by way of the feed and scavenge pumps.

yes i understand what is and what is not a dry sump,
and yamaha is trying and getting closer all the time in really getting there heavy old system working without all the added unnecessary hardware,
the honda system with the separate trans fluid and the crank separated away from the oil is about as light as simple way to do the oil control and create a dry sump without all the hassle, and yamaha is taking notes and getting there :applause:

  • MotoGoalie

Posted December 12, 2005 - 02:38 PM

#10

and yamaha is taking notes and getting there :applause:


damned I hope not.
The last thing anyone in Yamahaland wants is a cloned CRF engine and its marvelous maintenance free and reliable design. :ride:

  • grayracer513

Posted December 12, 2005 - 03:21 PM

#11

Here I though Honda was trying to create a dry sump just by leaving the oil out in the first place. Whose brilliant idea was it to run a race bike on 700cc of oil?

What extra hardware? One pump rotor and two external lines is all the extra stuff that was ever involved. Not more than a pound total, I'll bet. (as it happened, they were planning to use a frame in the YZF anyway, whether they stored oil in it or not)

You can put a rat in a dress and call it a ballerina, but it's still just a rat in a dress. Saying that the Honda has any of the advantages of a dry sump simply by virtue of the fact that it is able to drain oil away from the crank itself is no different than saying that a Z28 is a dry sump because it has a windage tray with scrapers and a deep pan.

After all of the success they had with the XR600/650 and dry sump oiling, it really surprises me to see them cut such a huge corner on something like the CRF.

  • matt116

Posted December 12, 2005 - 03:55 PM

#12

The oiling system is still a dry sump, which is considerably different than the CRF, which is a wet sump engine and an isolated transmission. The difference in the '06 YZ450 is that the oil "tank" is now integrated into the engine cases in an area ahead of the crankcase itself. This fact does not make it a wet sump, since the oil is still removed from the sump itself and returned by a scavenging pump to the oil tank. The tank just happens to be a part of the engine assembly. They appear to have reversed the direction that the oil flows in the sense that the feed oil is now on the left and the return on the right, and the return is still an external line. But it is absolutely not "like a Honda" any more than last year's was.


The external line is just the "oil tank breather hose" page 4-61 of the manual.
This is also shown on page 2-10 the far line on the right side of the chart is the external line.

  • grayracer513

Posted December 12, 2005 - 04:13 PM

#13

I'm going to have to sneak a look at a manual. It may still return on the left side.

  • kelstr

Posted December 12, 2005 - 04:36 PM

#14

After all of the success they had with the XR600/650 and dry sump oiling, it really surprises me to see them cut such a huge corner on something like the CRF.

its lighter , they found a way to create a cheater dry sump ,
less parts and less drag on the motor turning only one pump rotor vs two,

the bike is intended for mx and its a better mouse trap on the oiling and crankcase pressure controll,
its just the way everthing is getting, better , lighter, keep trany trash out of the crank oil, less drag more hp and all,

yami is getting better ,all the factories are , ever year they copy more and more from each other,( hondas pattents start running out :applause: )

we all win ,
after all the Harley still uses a heavy dated dry sump also ,
what dose that tell ya :ride: :p

  • grayracer513

Posted December 12, 2005 - 05:03 PM

#15

its lighter , they found a way to create a cheater dry sump ,
less parts and less drag on the motor turning only one pump rotor vs two,...
after all the Harley still uses a heavy dated dry sump also ...

It's perhaps one pound lighter, not counting the oil that they don't use, and has the following other "features" of a wet sump engine: reduced oil supply and/or reduced ground clearance due to the need to accomodate an oil sump located where gravity can feed it; reduced control over the feed oil supply; reduced ability to supply feed oil at unusual attitudes; reduced ability to isolate the oil supply from engine heat.

F1 cars, and most of the other sophisticated racing vehicles made use the "outdated" dry sump system, too. What does that tell you?

Separating the transmission from the engine oil is the only thing right about the CRF's oiling system, but that, combined with the use of a wet sump, is part of what stuck them with such a small engine oil supply.

  • Mikeanic

Posted December 13, 2005 - 07:33 PM

#16

its lighter , they found a way to create a cheater dry sump ,
less parts and less drag on the motor turning only one pump rotor vs two,

the bike is intended for mx and its a better mouse trap on the oiling and crankcase pressure controll,
its just the way everthing is getting, better , lighter, keep trany trash out of the crank oil, less drag more hp and all,

yami is getting better ,all the factories are , ever year they copy more and more from each other,( hondas pattents start running out :applause: )

we all win ,
after all the Harley still uses a heavy dated dry sump also ,
what dose that tell ya :p :p



The CRF uses a reed valve in the bottom of the crank case to help scavenge oil . It is a cheap way to get the effect of a dry sump but it is not a dry sump . It is buy no means high tech and I doub't Honda has a patent . Husaberg/Husky used it years ago . It is simple but effective. I am sure a dry sump system is more complex but is more effective at reducing drag in an engine . If it wasn't NASCAR wouldn't use it . I am not knocking the CRF system . It works fine . Could the CRF work better with a dry sump oiling system ? Perhaps it could ? :ride:





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