My '06 450 MX Ride Report


15 replies to this topic
  • jaybird67k

Posted December 03, 2005 - 05:43 PM

#1

I was able to ride today and put together an initial ride report.

Track: Mixed, Hard Pack & loamy Sand condition.
Rider weight w/Gear: 175lb
Rider Skill: Novice to Intermediate
Old Bike: '03 450 (For Sale)

The first thing I noticed before completing the first lap was how Plush feeling the Suspension was, as I would have thought it to feel much stiffer sinceYamaha was trying to address the bottoming issue on these Forks; among other things.
This is a very stable feeling bike, I expected the Alum frame to make it feel ridged but I was wrong. I am a big fan of the Chromoly frames because of there ability to flex on whooped out sweepers allowing you to steer the bike with back wheel.
So after feeling the plush soft feeling suspension I thought, "Can It Take a Hit?" So I tested it. I over jumped out into the flat on several jumps and also intentionally faced a double to see if it could handle it,................and..........
This Suspension is so Dang good it's really Night and Day difference between my '03 and this. I was amazed at how soft and plush feeling it was but yet I was unable to bottom it even trying, I'm not saying it can't be done, just not on this ride and on this track. I can tell you that it will land a bike length out in the flat on a 85' table with no problem, just sucks it up.
Did I tell y'all how good the suspension was yet? :applause:

I payed close attention to how this bike turned because I was concerned that since the fork rides higher in the stroke now that this might present a problem, WRONG!
It turns wonderful on tight 90 deg rutted turns and just rails the flat sweepers with no problem. I will probably raise my fork tubes in the Triples about 5mm tomorrow and see if it turns even better. The fork tubes were flush in the clamps so I think raising the tubes 5mm beyond the tree will be perfect.
I had no issues with the front stock tire washing on me like allot of people have issues with.
I can't say enough about the Suspension, I never got arm pump all day like I would have on my '03, but this is mainly attributed to the Engine department.

The Engine.
Does not have that Brutal off the bottom hit like the '03 & '04 models which is a blessing in disguise, Why do I say this? NO ARM PUMP!!!!
It has more usable power and will no doubt allow you to turn faster lap times because you don't have to hold on to it so hard. It runs similar to the '05 model. It has the same engine characteristics as the CRF.

Tranny:
I was concerned about going back to the 5 speed after coming from a 4 speed, but all that was laid to rest after 1 hour of riding or so.
I think the MX riders & Woods riders will like this Gearbox.
1st gear was taller than I expected but for MX it's perfect, all you Woods rider might want to bump up a few teeth on the rear for tight stuff.
The gearbox seemed a little notchy at first but got better as the day went, I think it's just new and tight.

Something to keep in mind, this bike in warmer climates like mine hardly needs the choke to start but if you use the choke and it doesn't fire, leave the choke on and compress the Hot start and it will fire up perfect.
The start circuit must be a little rich, shouldn't be a problem where it's cold though.
I would invest in a Case guard, it's kinda exposed in front.

Did I mention that that Top Heavy feeling is gone now :ride:

I think Yamaha did a great job on this bike and it is the Ultimate Weapon in my opinion.
Here are some Pic's.

http://www.sleepinra.../450/b4ride.JPG
http://www.sleepinra...450/b4ride1.JPG
http://www.sleepinra...450/b4ride2.JPG
http://www.sleepinra...0/afterride.JPG


Later, Jason

  • ripntear

Posted December 03, 2005 - 06:06 PM

#2

Thanks for the review!

We heard the likes, did you have any dislikes?

  • jaybird67k

Posted December 03, 2005 - 08:07 PM

#3

did you have any dislikes?



Yeah........one.
The rider needs to be a little faster. :applause:

I love this bike!!!

Later, Jason

  • Matt96xr6

Posted December 03, 2005 - 08:29 PM

#4

I rode a new 450 today at the AX practice. Nice bike for sure. I did not get to setup at all. The local dealer just brought a demo.

The bike feels heavier than the new 250F, even the 05 that I have. Somewhere inbetween a 250F and the older steel frame 450F. The center of gravity is lower and that seemed to help from wearing my down. The throttle tube feels like it is on roller bearings like my protaper unit. But very easy bike to ride, power was just about perfect for indoor. I was really suprised how easy of a 450 to ride it was.

Now I rode a 450X honda after that and I will say the handling was better on that bike, even with the extra weight. But I think some time playing with the suspension on the new 450 would make a huge difference. Heck I even kind of liked the stock bar bend!

Very nice bike for sure! Would love to get outdoors again and open one up.

  • SureBlue

Posted December 03, 2005 - 09:35 PM

#5

Thanks for the review Jason.
BTW - how was the suspension? :ride:
I'm getting frustrated of all this waiting... :applause:

  • djo269

Posted December 04, 2005 - 12:26 AM

#6

Thanks for the review. I am jealous, but anyways have fun on your new bike! :applause:

  • Jasons

Posted December 05, 2005 - 10:49 AM

#7

I wrote a review in another thread last week, but figured I would give the update here.

I rode the bike for the second time this weekend and I also rode an 06 CRF. The YZ motor is strong. It seems to rev much quicker than the CR and pull off of the bottom with much more snap. It kept busting the rear loose if I was too quick on the throttle, almost 2 stroke like.
I raised the needle one clip and it helped the popping that others have mentioned as well as made it pull a little better in the middle. I may try a 45 pilot, and 168 main next time. I ran out of time.(it is about 50F here and sea level)

Suspension wise it was plusher than the CRF but I still have to play with the rebound some more on mine. The track was really rutted and I didn't get much time to dial the suspension because I was playing with jetting. I did go in a couple of clicks on the fork and shock compression but I think I will go back out and go in on rebound for a little more control entering corners. Sure is plush though.

I felt much better whipping the bike and moving it around in the air than my 04 and this is after the second ride.

Cornering was on and off. The track was muddy to sticky to dry and the front tire did not want to stick. (still stock, my tires didn't make it here for the weekend) I will try a new tire and then add a turn of preload if the tire doesn't fix it. The rear of the bike seems to like less sag than previous versions.

As I mentioned in my last post I also have to get some bar risers and hopefully move them forward a little as well. It is hard for me to get forward on a bike if the bars are too low. (funny, MXA said this about the 250F in the mag I got this weekend, for once they may be right)

Did I mention that the carb is a @#$% to get at? I put on a boysen quick shot (had it from the old bike) and ..... :applause:
You can get to the needle if you take the tank off. Take the cover screws out before you pull the cover. You have to twist it out. I dropped one screw and lost it. I was worried it went in the carb, so I had to pull the subframe and air boot to make sure it wasn't in there, anyway make sure you pull the screws first.

Jason

  • grayracer513

Posted December 05, 2005 - 11:40 AM

#8

This is a very stable feeling bike, I expected the Alum frame to make it feel ridged but I was wrong. I am a big fan of the Chromoly frames because of there ability to flex on whooped out sweepers allowing you to steer the bike with back wheel.

Frame flex is bad. Period. It is a complete misconception to suggest that there is the least bit of benefit in it for anyone other than road bicyclists.

A big part of the stability you noted is because the frame IS more rigid, and the wheels are always running in the correct plane, instead of twisting and deflecting at odd angles.

It is, and should only be, up to the suspension to remove the harshness from the ride and keep the wheels in contact. That's where Honda has been for a few years now, where Yamaha has been trying to get to, and where they now apparently are.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • aford541

Posted December 05, 2005 - 08:46 PM

#9

Frame flex is bad. Period. It is a complete misconception to suggest that there is the least bit of benefit in it for anyone other than road bicyclists.

A big part of the stability you noted is because the frame IS more rigid, and the wheels are always running in the correct plane, instead of twisting and deflecting at odd angles.

It is, and should only be, up to the suspension to remove the harshness from the ride and keep the wheels in contact. That's where Honda has been for a few years now, where Yamaha has been trying to get to, and where they now apparently are.


I don't agree, I think the wrong type of frame flex is bad. You don't want the frame to flex in a way that makes the bike track incorrectly. This is what they struggle with on Moto GP bikes, when the bike is leaned over in a corner and the suspension is bottomed out there are only the tire and the chassis to dampen any bump. I read this in cycle news when they were talking about Valentino Rossi's Moto Gp Yamaha, and with regard to the first generation Honda Aluminum frame. Mc Grath thought it was too rigid that is why he did not want to ride it and went back to a Yamaha steel frame.
Honda has continued to use lighter and thinner material in the spar area.
According to the Cycle News article that is the most critical area is the area between the head tube and the spar.
I have been told that the Factory Connection team does not use the aluminum case guards because the riders think it makes the frames stiffer.
Now that is insanity I can't believe they think they can feel that.

  • palmdaleRider

Posted December 07, 2005 - 05:51 AM

#10

I want a new shiny bike. :applause:

  • Beanb1

Posted December 07, 2005 - 06:40 AM

#11

carb is a lot easier to work on if you remove the tank and hot start. It can be tilted in at the top to get to all the screws. I lost a screw the first time I pulled the bowl also. Be careful putting the hot start back in. It is plastic and the threads strip easily.

  • MXKyle

Posted December 07, 2005 - 02:19 PM

#12

I thought that the problem with the first aluminum framed Honda wasn't that the frame was to stiff (as in not enough frame flex) but that the stiffness caused too much vibration transfer to the rider. That much buzz transferred to the hands was very undesirable. The steel frame damped a lot of that out so when the aluminum frame didn't it was hated immediately.

I never owned one but I have ridden each model and distinctly remember the buzz when riding the original. I didn't think it handled poorly (other than the signature crappy suspension).

--KT--

  • yz_for_me

Posted December 07, 2005 - 04:17 PM

#13

I don't agree, I think the wrong type of frame flex is bad. You don't want the frame to flex in a way that makes the bike track incorrectly. This is what they struggle with on Moto GP bikes, when the bike is leaned over in a corner and the suspension is bottomed out there are only the tire and the chassis to dampen any bump. I read this in cycle news when they were talking about Valentino Rossi's Moto Gp Yamaha, and with regard to the first generation Honda Aluminum frame. Mc Grath thought it was too rigid that is why he did not want to ride it and went back to a Yamaha steel frame.
Honda has continued to use lighter and thinner material in the spar area.
According to the Cycle News article that is the most critical area is the area between the head tube and the spar.
I have been told that the Factory Connection team does not use the aluminum case guards because the riders think it makes the frames stiffer.
Now that is insanity I can't believe they think they can feel that.


I agree with you. This topic has been discussed before and there are a few different opions, but I still think it's an interesting discussion. I've also read a couple articles that talk about this. Pretty much what it comes down to is evan as good as today's suspension is, no mechanical system can perfectly handle all the different physical inputs (ie: bumps, jumps, corners and stuff) that it sees. Without some flex in the frame the shock from those inputs will go somewhere and that somewhere is the rider's body. With a little flex built into the frame the bike feels much more forgiving and not so harsh. Too much flex and the bike will feel vague and wallowy. As with most design situations there are compromises. By intentionally designing the right flex into the frame, you may sacrifice a little precision, but you gain a much more forgiving and comfortable ride. That's why R&D still relies heavily on test riders to get the right feel. If the goal was to simply make the frame as rigid as possible it wouldn't be terribly hard to do. But designing a frame to flex right is not an easy thing. It's not an exact science. Case in point. I read that in designing the 2 stroke aluminum frame for '05, Yamaha had 3 variations of the final design. One was soft, one was stiff and one was in between. It was up to the test riders to decide which one had the right feel and just like Goldielocks, they chose the one in the middle.

  • MathProf

Posted December 07, 2005 - 07:28 PM

#14

Here is an insane story that I believe is true.

Jordi Tarres was a 7(?) time World Trials Champion(read scary good).

The engineers changed the angle of the cylinder to
lower the center of gravity without him knowing.

He complained that it felt like the piston was pulling him off the rocks.

They put the engine back the way it was. :applause:

  • grayracer513

Posted December 08, 2005 - 09:03 AM

#15

I have been told that the Factory Connection team does not use the aluminum case guards because the riders think it makes the frames stiffer.
Now that is insanity I can't believe they think they can feel that.

I can't either, but it perfectly illustrates the problem with asking some pro racers any kind of technical question. A large percentage of them don't have any real technical savvy, and, like all athletes who excel in their field, a lot of them are head cases. To be fair, some are pretty competent, too, but...

I was at Daytona some years ago watching the practice for the road race from the pits when Mert Lawill rolled up to his mechanic and said "It's running lean". The KR's had an externally adjustable main jet trim on them, and the mechanic reached under the carb and fiddled some and then sent him back out. Mert came back in and said, "That's better. Maybe a little more." So another "tweak" was performed, and Lawill came back by to inform his wrench that it was now perfect, and then rode off to complete his practice. When Cal Rayborn's wrench remarked that he hadn't had to alter their jetting, Mert's mechanic said, "I didn't change anything. The bike was fine. I just rejetted his head, that's all". Same thing as the case guards.

The frame has to locate two things in a fixed position relative to each other: the swing arm pivot, and the steering head. Any flex that allows these two points to wander out their intended relationship to each other is going to detract from the bike's handling. Flex anywhere else is OK, but if you look at the modern MX frame, there almost is nowhere else. Only the shock mount is as highly stressed as the head and the pivot. If you can describe a way in which the frame might flex in some beneficial way that would at the same time still prevent any relative movement of the head and pivot, I'd like to hear it.

There's no problem that I can see in having the rear triangle be a bit springy, but the frame's job is to keep the back wheel absolutely square with the steering axis at all times, and problems like engine vibration and ride harshness need to be cured within the systems where they are created.

As far as McGrath not running the '97 CR frame, he's entitled to his opinion of why it didn't work, butg it's also true that the steel frame he ran wasn't a '96, either. Honda in the nineties could not stop fiddling with things, even when they got them working right. Their slogan seemed to be "If it ain't broke, we can change that!" McGrath and several others ran the '93 steel frame for several years (94 and 95 at least) because the geometry was different, and they liked the handling of that model better. The '97 CR had horrible geometry, and acted just like it.

  • Fastest1

Posted December 08, 2005 - 03:14 PM

#16

Dont forget riding techniques change too, making the bikes endure new loads not accounted for. I have always read that tank slappers were caused from flexy frames, if this is true, then todays bikes should never wobble (roadracers mostly) but they do.





Related Content

Forums
Photo

Megabomb Fitment by 288yz450


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   YZ 400/426/450
  • 1 reply
Forums
Photo

Chubby dad, looking at bikes , First trip to the orange/black forum ! by Slow_ride


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   KTM   250-530 EXC/MXC/SXC/XC-W/XCR-W (4-Strokes)
  • Hot  28 replies
Forums
Photo

YZ450F 03 Sparks driving me crazy by SirAttard


Dirt Bike   Make / Model Specific   Yamaha   YZ 400/426/450
  • 5 replies
Forums
Photo

2016 YZ450 by CaptainKnobby


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Technical Forums   Suspension
  • Hot  59 replies
Forums
Photo

Michigan Motocross Tires by 288yz450


Dirt Bike   Dirt Bike Regional Discussion   North
  • 1 reply
 
x

Join Our Community!

Even if you don't want to post, registered members get access to tools that make finding & following the good stuff easier.

If you enjoyed reading about "" here in the ThumperTalk archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join ThumperTalk today!

The views and opinions expressed on this page are strictly those of the author, and have not been reviewed or approved by ThumperTalk.