WR450 versus YZ426/YZ450 for Woods


24 replies to this topic
  • 00YZ426FMRCD

Posted November 29, 2005 - 06:54 PM

#1

Is there anyone out there who rides a WR450 that can compare the handling and power to a YZ426/450? (I know the 2 bikes aren't made to compare - but here is my delima)

I ride & race 50/50 Woods and MX. My 426 does well on both but I am interested in getting a WR450 over a 450F. I don't want to sacrifice any power or handling. The only WR I have rode was a WR426. The bike handled great and supsension felt good but lacked the power I was looking for.

Doing the math, a WR450 is 20-25LBS heavier than my 426. How well does the WR450 handle the extra weight and is it MX worthy at all? Keep in mind that we are not talking 30ft triples here but small-mid doubles + whoops and high speed cornering. I really want something with electric start for harescrambles & Grand-Prix's with a headlight but still need a highly capable MX machine. I have considered a KTM for this reason alone.

Any feedback/help is appreciated.

  • bg10459

Posted November 29, 2005 - 07:37 PM

#2

I really want something with electric start for harescrambles & Grand-Prix's with a headlight but still need a highly capable MX machine. I have considered a KTM for this reason alone.


For this reason alone, I would go with the WR. Put in YZ cams, exhaust and have the suspension setup the way you like it (you would have done that anyway). Can't speak objectively about the KTM's, but my buds ride them and love them (we don't race). If you could do without the starter, definitely get the YZF for racing.
Of course, what do I know? :applause:

  • Indy_WR450

Posted November 30, 2005 - 05:04 AM

#3

My riding buddy "NCMountainman" has had the 04WR450 and is now on an 05YZ450. He has both bikes heavily modded for hare scrambles!

PM him and he can give you his number to discuss it over the phone. Too much to sit down and type all the mods and set up changes he has done. He doesnt visit our forum as much since they separated the YZ forum from the WR forum. :applause:

  • ncmountainman

Posted November 30, 2005 - 06:23 AM

#4

the wr's can be modded more like a yz,losing a little weight, and still keeping the starter. but it will be a little slower than a yz modded for offroad(at least in my opinion)it will also depend on your size,ability,riding style and terrain; like indy said pm me with your # and i'll give you a call :applause:

  • Punisher660

Posted November 30, 2005 - 08:20 AM

#5

I think a lot of the difference is in the gearing. You can always get more power out of either engine, but the gearing is what makes the bike. I found that with my WR, I use the clutch more on the MX track than the MX bikes do, but it does fine. The noticable difference is the 1st to 2nd gap. 1st is too low and 2nd is too high on the track. I did have my suspension set up, so the tripples are not really an issue. On the trails there is no comparison. The WR is easier to lug down than my buddies CRF and YZF. The gearing is just not suited for slow-speed technical on the MX bikes. Thats where the WR super low 1st gear is perfect. Other than that, either bike is fun in either situation. I think if you spend a lot of time on the track though, you would want to put the WR on a diet - go to a YZ tank seat, and strip off what you don't need. It is only a 25 lb difference. I guess for me it would be more effective to just go to the gym a little more. :applause:

  • vmxr

Posted November 30, 2005 - 09:04 AM

#6

FWIW, I think you should go YZF even though I own a WR450. The electric start on my WR cranks slower than the kick start, always has. Consequently I think for quick starts you'll need to use the kicker anyways and the electric starter/battery is unecessary weight. Also since you are limiting yourself to MX and hare scrambles I don't think you'll miss the wide ratio tranny in the WR, just gear up/down for the conditions. This is assuming you are looking at a 5 speed YZ. I've never ridden a 4 speed off road so I'm not sure how they would work.

  • ncmountainman

Posted November 30, 2005 - 11:56 AM

#7

FWIW, I think you should go YZF even though I own a WR450. The electric start on my WR cranks slower than the kick start, always has. Consequently I think for quick starts you'll need to use the kicker anyways and the electric starter/battery is unecessary weight. Also since you are limiting yourself to MX and hare scrambles I don't think you'll miss the wide ratio tranny in the WR, just gear up/down for the conditions. This is assuming you are looking at a 5 speed YZ. I've never ridden a 4 speed off road so I'm not sure how they would work.

my e-start was crap also,the 4spd in the woods is perfect with 13/52 and a little fww, add a rekluse and you can't stop it even on the tightest trails. the faster primary drive gearing of the 05 yz cuts waaay down on engine braking,and with the above setup power delivery is seemless;need more speed than you just throw on a 14t. if want your cake and eat it too,its alot easier to ride a slightly modded(even a fww and gearing will make a world of difference) yz in the woods, than it is to mx a wr. of course there is always the new 5spd yz :ride: but to tell ya the truth i'd rather run the 4spd :applause:

  • vmxr

Posted November 30, 2005 - 01:53 PM

#8

my e-start was crap also,the 4spd in the woods is perfect with 13/52 and a little fww, add a rekluse and you can't stop it even on the tightest trails. the faster primary drive gearing of the 05 yz cuts waaay down on engine braking,and with the above setup power delivery is seemless;need more speed than you just throw on a 14t. if want your cake and eat it too,its alot easier to ride a slightly modded(even a fww and gearing will make a world of difference) yz in the woods, than it is to mx a wr. of course there is always the new 5spd yz but to tell ya the truth i'd rather run the 4spd



Dang NC! Now you got me thinking about a YZF! Although I might need a 5 speed seeing as how I'm in the Dez (and the new ones look pretty sexy). :applause:

  • ncmountainman

Posted November 30, 2005 - 02:16 PM

#9

i think 1st is 1.92:1 and 4th gear is something like 1.05:1 on the 4 spd's , i wonder what the new 5 spd's are? i really doubt they lowered 1st much or raised 5th alot,more than likely just spaced them closer like the old ones???? the 426 4th was 1.09 and 5th was 0.952 just over 1/2 a gear more than the 450 i really don't need to go over 70mph anyhow :applause:

  • Matty05

Posted November 30, 2005 - 03:04 PM

#10

Put it this way - YZ450F you can race straight out of the box, WR450F needs lots of work to make it competative. YZ has more power, alot better handling, and weighs a ton less. I believe Yamaha added the 5 speed to the YZ just for all the people that ride off road.

I only got a WR so I could get it registered. I think a KTM 525exc would have been a lot nicer and lighter, but buying 2 yamaha's was a lot cheaper than 2 KTM's.

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  • Indy_WR450

Posted November 30, 2005 - 03:07 PM

#11

The new 5 speed tranny is close ratio 5 speed with gear ratios specified on the Japanese Yamaha web site ( not yet on US web site) is:

Primary Reduction Ratio 63/23 (2.652)
Secondary Reduction Ratio 49/13 (3.769)
Gear Ratio - 1st Gear 27/14 (1.929)
Gear Ratio - 2nd Gear 23/15 (1.533)
Gear Ratio - 3rd Gear 23/18 (1.278)
Gear Ratio - 4th Gear 24/22 (1.091)
Gear Ratio - 5th Gear 20/21 (0.952)

[COLOR=Sienna]Current 2005 4 speed has:

Primary Reduction Ratio 63/23 (2.652)
Secondary Reduction Ratio 50/14 (3.571)
Gear Ratio - 1st Gear 27/14 (1.929)
Gear Ratio - 2nd Gear 25/16 (1.563)
Gear Ratio - 3rd Gear 23/18 (1.278)
Gear Ratio - 4th Gear 21/20 (1.050)[/COLOR]

Looks like it will be better for high speed desert racing with taller gearing the 3/4/5 gears will stay in the power band better. :applause:

Right from Yamaha's web site:

[COLOR=Sienna]7) 5-speed transmission adopted
In order to accommodate a wide range of uses from closed-course competition to open-area desert races, a 5-speed transmission capable of adapting to changing race conditions has been newly adopted. This ensures a ride with potential for even smoother application of drive force. [/COLOR]

Looks like the new bike is rated at the same 220lbs even with the new lighter motor and frame? :ride: :p :p :lol: :p :p

  • ncmountainman

Posted November 30, 2005 - 03:39 PM

#12

about the same except for a little jump into OD,what would that be worth in mph comparing with the same secondary ratio? about 5-8 mph?

  • Indy_WR450

Posted November 30, 2005 - 05:00 PM

#13

Note the 13 tooth front means you only need to go to a 52 rear to get woods gearing.

  • 00YZ426FMRCD

Posted November 30, 2005 - 05:14 PM

#14

Excellent info Guys! Thanks for the comments and feedback. NCMountainman, you have a PM coming your way!

  • MotoGoalie

Posted December 01, 2005 - 08:00 AM

#15

If you ride tight trees with hills, the 4 speed can be a little testy and require MASSIVE clutch slipping on steep inclines and slippery lines. I love my 03 but its not the best thing for trailriding. It works good at racing offroad though.

  • ncmountainman

Posted December 01, 2005 - 02:27 PM

#16

If you ride tight trees with hills, the 4 speed can be a little testy and require MASSIVE clutch slipping on steep inclines and slippery lines. I love my 03 but its not the best thing for trailriding. It works good at racing offroad though.

it don't get any tighter than the crap i ride. maybe i should go to work setting up offroad bikes :ride: the biggest problem(for racing anyhow) is you really have to go one way or the other (mx or offroad) as its gonna be a compromise if you go all out in either direction. like my yz isn't all that great on a mx track,but its still better at both track and offroad than my yz'd wr was. which is good because alot of the HS i want to do next year involve mx sections :applause:

  • MotoGoalie

Posted December 01, 2005 - 02:49 PM

#17

it don't get any tighter than the crap i ride. maybe i should go to work setting up offroad bikes :ride: the biggest problem(for racing anyhow) is you really have to go one way or the other (mx or offroad) as its gonna be a compromise if you go all out in either direction. like my yz isn't all that great on a mx track,but its still better at both track and offroad than my yz'd wr was. which is good because alot of the HS i want to do next year involve mx sections :applause:



My problem is I had to gear down (one tooth on C/S) so I have NO top end, which is fine as most of my racing is enduro singletrack in the rockies here, but there are a few sections where its WFO and I could take one more gear to keep from spinning it so hard.

I had my shock revalved locally and it works great on MX or offroad. ie it's plenty plush for my tastes. Not XR plush but it doesn't kick on rocks and crap and it can take ruts and g-outs in stride. The biggest plus to this bike, is it never shakes its head. I really don't feel the need to have a steering dampner on it.

I put on a 2.8 clark and a SDG high seat (which isn't much if any softer than stock :p ), a Q and I'm totally legal and ready to go in USFS tagged areas.

But I do wish I had a OD gear. The 4 speed is somewhat limited.

The beauty with the YZF package is its ready to haul ass right out of the showroom. It just takes some coin to make it long range and trail friendly. And its still quite a bit lighter than the WR which is always a good thing.

  • MTRSPORTDAN

Posted December 01, 2005 - 04:08 PM

#18

I think the yz450 is the way to go for you. I just sold my yz426 and got a wr450 and did all the mods except jet kit and cutting more holes in the air box. I like the wr but I also think the power is not enough. I ride alot of desert and went with the wr for the higher top end. But I didn't realize how much less powerfull it seems and how much heavier it is than my 426. My 426 with really low gearing (15/44) would still pull the front end off the ground at about 65. The wr I really have to bounce it to get it up. The yz 450 is easier to start than the 426 and is a lot lighter. If you ride woods you don't need the top end of the wr. Get the yz450 and put a heavier fly wheel on it. That is what a lot of guys are doing for their track 450's anyway. (And to my wr, no disrespect!!!!!)

  • vmxr

Posted December 01, 2005 - 08:09 PM

#19

I had my shock revalved locally and it works great on MX or offroad.



Motogoalie,

Who did your shock? Did you do the forks also?

  • MotoGoalie

Posted December 02, 2005 - 07:38 AM

#20

Motogoalie,

Who did your shock? Did you do the forks also?


Hitchcock Industries in Denver (Littleton is a suburb). If you do a search in the rocky mountain forum you can find his info or PM me and I'll dig it up at work.

I just did the shock. The seal was blown so it was gonna cost coin to fix that anyhow. Thing is his prices are insanely good, he can ship as you are in AZ and he knows exactly what's going on. I even believe he has a 1 or 2 revalve/reshim change policy but that is for you to ask him.

The shock is freakin great. It really is. I didn't do the forks as I think they are fine for me right now.

My last motox was a 92 CR250 so id expect a fork in the eye would be as good as that POS.




 
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