It appears the XR650R and XR650L are dead


221 replies to this topic
  • khelton

Posted November 30, 2005 - 03:01 PM

#41

Man, I do not know about that. I believed that at one time (about this time last year) but Honda had the audacity to get rid of the XR250 and XR400. That is a giant hole as neither the CRF250X nor the CRF450X can hold a candle to the market that these bikes filled. Dual sport one of those and take off on a 2500 mile ride? Never.

.


yeah but think about it...the XR250 was extremely slow, stopped selling long before they stopped making it. The XR400 was cool when it first came out but you wouldn't want to take it on a long ride either. One of our riders did Copper Canyon on one and it just wasn't quite right. Dependable yes. Honda will make only so many models, new ones come, old ones must go. I believe they will stay in the market. I had notes on the dirt bike sales by state . Will try to find them. It is still significant.

  • AHRMA17L

Posted November 30, 2005 - 03:05 PM

#42

You're dead on about the CRFs. Long distance riding machines they are not.

It comes back to my point before - Honda would appear to be follwing the time honoured method of market segmentation.

CRF - short distance blasts when you're feeling funky

XRF - long distance well equipped high country destroying machine.



I would believe that, but I just do not see Honda filling the gap. On one hand we have some crappy ass playbike (CRF230) that would have been outdated in the early 1980's, and on the other we have what are essentially extremely high maintenence race bikes (CRF250 and CRF450).

Where is the middle ground/market segment between the donk bike and the race bikes? Even with the 650R, there is nothing below it until you hit the poor excuse for a Honda CRF230.

Believe me, I would love an XR400 in a modern chassis, and while I would consider owning a modern 4-stroke MX bike, I would NEVER buy one of the off road versions--the engine would probably destroy itself in a week doing the same thing my XR400's will do without so much as a valve adjustment.

It is truly enough to drive a person to another brand!

  • AHRMA17L

Posted November 30, 2005 - 03:20 PM

#43

yeah but think about it...the XR250 was extremely slow, stopped selling long before they stopped making it. The XR400 was cool when it first came out but you wouldn't want to take it on a long ride either. id Copper Canyon on one and it just wasn't quite right. Dependable yes. Honda will make only so many models, new ones come, old oens must go. I believe they will stay in the market. I had notes on the dirt bike sales by state . Wil try to find them. It is still significant.


Yes, the 250 was slow and sales were down, but the 400 and 650? If you can find the sales numbers, it would be interesting to know how many XR400s were sold as opposed to the XR650. It seems like the shops sold more 400s than 650s, at least here in Oregon. At one time you could choose between 4 different model years of the XR650R on the show room floor and they were blowing them out for $3999.

You are right, too that the 400 is not a great long distance bike, however Honda offers no reliable bike between the 230 and 650.

Maybe it is like the 125 motocross bikes going away. We are doing it to ourselves and it is a self fufilling prophecy.

  • khelton

Posted November 30, 2005 - 03:37 PM

#44

Oregon, Washington and Ca are dirt bike Mecca. I'll try to dig up the numbers,may take a couple of days.

  • blueridge

Posted November 30, 2005 - 03:57 PM

#45

Honda is like Sony ... they rested on their laurels for too long. Sony is so desperate they are calling a new mobile phone with MP3 a "Walkman" in Japan. Honda is deepsixing the Baja King and will try to foist a race bike on enduro buyers. It's not going to work, Honda. This is a great opportunity for Suzuki to put their biggest EFI thumper (from the King Quad ATV, ~686 cc) in a beefed up DRZ frame.

  • craft

Posted November 30, 2005 - 04:22 PM

#46

I don't think they will be introducing any new dualsport bikes. I talked to the owner of a local Honda dealer and he said that according to Honda, dualsports only sell good in 5 states. Since they don't make a lot of money on them, why would they spend money to engineer a new one? (Actually, all they need to do is import some already in production) It sure would be nice to see some new, dependable thumpers from Honda.


I think we will see some new ones...I think you'll see some V-Twin Adventure bikes, maybe even a 650. I guarantee Honda Motor is paying a lot of attention to all of these expensive European made BMW's and KTM's rolling around the U.S...New Dual-Sports? I do believe they will maintain production on some sort of street legal XRLish Thumper. The market's still there, worldwide. Hence, we will always have some sort of access to them. :applause:

  • Supplicate

Posted November 30, 2005 - 04:22 PM

#47

XRF - long distance well equipped high country destroying machine.

:applause:

I just don't see anything with "CRF" on it being capable of that.

And its kind of backwards thinking anymore to make something as "simple" as the XR lineup used to be and partially is, especially with all of the emmisions regulations.

  • rmhrc630

Posted November 30, 2005 - 04:57 PM

#48

I only use CRF as a moniker

calling the XR 50/80/100 whatever a CRF doesnt change their reliablity.

I guess Honda has to play it very fine though - calling a long distance bike a CRF may not be best hence bane XRF!!!

  • TimBrp

Posted November 30, 2005 - 05:38 PM

#49

Hopefully at that displacement, like the current 650, it won't have to be stressed to the limit (like the current MX based 450's) to make decent power and old XR virtues of reliability will remain intact!



Sounds like a pipe dream but I'll take a drag. Let's hope for it.

  • Jayzonk

Posted November 30, 2005 - 09:42 PM

#50

Wow, what a great thread. I wished I could keep track of everything I've read over the last few pages here.
Here's what I figure. It's kind of like the post above about adventure bikes. The Motorcycle Industry Council Report shows trends in motorcycle purchases over about 5 decades, and you can track the peaks and troughs in consumer motorcycle purchases. The peaks basically follow the age curve of baby boomers. Considering boomers are buying all the bikes then and now, I would think that Honda is going to build a bike that suits these aging buyers. I figure that'll be something like a Suzuki V-Strom, or as mentioned, the BMW650GS. Boomers won't necessarily be interested in a full-out race bike. It'll be some sort of gravel road-ready tourer. Therefore, I don't know if there's a good possibility ahead for having another R-type bike. If an adventure/tourer shows up, I imagine it will be impossible to modify for Baja racing.
I really hope that this isn't the case. It's sad to say, but I find having to choose a KTM or a Husqvarna instead of an R as bad as having to change religions. You just can't do it overnight and it just doesn't feel right.

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  • Jayzonk

Posted November 30, 2005 - 10:04 PM

#51

Okay, nobody reach through their computer and smack me for asking this. I know it sounds stupid, but just digest it for a second: can someone call Honda USA and see if someone will tell us what's in store for the big thumper? Replacement coming? Discontinuation?

  • HC

Posted November 30, 2005 - 10:22 PM

#52

holy Sh t man, easier to get a straight , honest answer out of the white house, in other words, they wouldnt tell you or me, we mean nothing to honda.

crf600? keep it, might be fast but if the smaller bikes are a clue, fuuggeetaboutit....

  • blueridge

Posted November 30, 2005 - 11:56 PM

#53

Honda speaks about new models only through its publicity each September. Dealers are under NDAs.

  • Zapp22

Posted December 01, 2005 - 08:40 AM

#54

1. The price I'm willing to sell my BRP just went up.
2. There is a replacement coming which will, in the words of some honda rep "blow the paint off of the Uly"

you KNOW the Honda Factory racing sponsors [INside of Honda] are not going to just dribble away their prestige. I'm expecting a full "Rallye" type bike that will raise the bar at the Baja et al. Aprilia's new effort, Beemer's rumoured 800 [rotax] Dual-sport, Ulysses, and overdue response to the 950 Adv..... trendline it. I'm looking for some kind of twin, close to 300 lbs [the Aprilia's are closer to 250... amazing]
z

  • huntmaster

Posted December 01, 2005 - 11:39 AM

#55

crf600? keep it, might be fast but if the smaller bikes are a clue, fuuggeetaboutit....

I wouldn't get too worried just yet. The new bike may have very little in common with the smaller ones being a full-on 600 and not an MX-based design. As noted elsewhere, the Z-50 (more recently XR50) is now a CRF, and there is no more durable off road mount out there! Everything will be a CRF now because that's whats "hot" to the marketing types...just as the XR name once was for four strokes and everything from the Z-50 to XL dual purpose bikes were renamed "XR"s. Honda does love their name games!

  • thumpasaurus

Posted December 01, 2005 - 03:28 PM

#56

Honda Factory racing sponsors [INside of Honda] are not going to just dribble away their prestige. I'm expecting a full "Rallye" type bike that will raise the bar at the Baja et al. Aprilia's new effort, Beemer's rumoured 800 [rotax] Dual-sport, Ulysses, and overdue response to the 950 Adv..... trendline it. I'm looking for some kind of twin, close to 300 lbs


Man I wish I had your rosy outlook for Honda. I hope your predictions come true.

  • BIGBLUEKNIGHT

Posted December 01, 2005 - 03:33 PM

#57

say it aint so :applause:

  • Countdown

Posted December 01, 2005 - 04:53 PM

#58

US site shows an 06 model of both the XR650R and L. They would not come off of the same production line anyway. They are two totally different bikes in every respect. Don't bury them before they are dead.


When I worked for Honda R&D in the 80's all bikes were assembled on the same line and all units of a model for a given country were made in 1-2 weeks. In 83 they had all parts in the warehouse for the XR 350s, they made 2 bikes and sent them over, we rode one 200 miles a day for 10 days, the clutch on the 350 was slipping on hills and in whoops at the end but they went ahead and put them all together and shipped them. End of production for that year.

  • Zapp22

Posted December 01, 2005 - 08:20 PM

#59

I wouldn't get too worried just yet. The new bike may have very little in common with the smaller ones being a full-on 600 and not an MX-based design. As noted elsewhere, the Z-50 (more recently XR50) is now a CRF, and there is no more durable off road mount out there! Everything will be a CRF now


i'm not convinced that there isn't more than one in the pipe. one that [in a 'fell swoop'] replaces the racing North America-dominating XR650R and the Euro Transalp, and another one that is a "big trailbike". If I were the product manager [which I have been for years, just in another high-tech industry], I would leave the dirt-only line at 450, and deliver something in the true Adventure category to compete with the [in no particular order] Buel Uly, the Katoom 950, Katoom 640 Adv, Katoom 640 Ralley, the rumoured BMW F800 "dakar" [uly-killer]. for my money, I'm leaning toward the beemer, if its for real, to replace two bikes: my XR650R and my V-strom.
z

  • craft

Posted December 01, 2005 - 09:04 PM

#60

i'm not convinced that there isn't more than one in the pipe. one that [in a 'fell swoop'] replaces the racing North America-dominating XR650R and the Euro Transalp, and another one that is a "big trailbike". If I were the product manager [which I have been for years, just in another high-tech industry], I would leave the dirt-only line at 450, and deliver something in the true Adventure category to compete with the [in no particular order] Buel Uly, the Katoom 950, Katoom 640 Adv, Katoom 640 Ralley, the rumoured BMW F800 "dakar" [uly-killer]. for my money, I'm leaning toward the beemer, if its for real, to replace two bikes: my XR650R and my V-strom.
z


Don't forget the plated baja beasts - BMW HP2 and the KTM 950 Super Enduro.





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