It appears the XR650R and XR650L are dead


221 replies to this topic
  • XRsteve

Posted November 30, 2005 - 07:19 AM

#21

I don't think they will be introducing any new dualsport bikes. I talked to the owner of a local Honda dealer and he said that according to Honda, dualsports only sell good in 5 states. Since they don't make a lot of money on them, why would they spend money to engineer a new one? (Actually, all they need to do is import some already in production) It sure would be nice to see some new, dependable thumpers from Honda.

  • DwD

Posted November 30, 2005 - 07:46 AM

#22

is the CRF600X just something you guys think will be the new bike.is there some pics of the CRF600X or is it just rumors ?

  • qadsan

Posted November 30, 2005 - 08:33 AM

#23

Reducing emissions is also a driving force for the changes we're about to see in the next couple years. I think we'll be seeing a new compact version of Honda's PGM-FI throttle body fuel injection in off road bikes in the next couple years. It will have a throttle position sensor to detect the throttle openeing, a pressure sensor to detect manifold vacuum, an air temp sensor to detect ambient temperature, an engine speed sensor and a crank position sensor to detect the rotation angle, all of which and more will be fed into an ECU (Engine Control Unit) that calculates the appropriate volume of air flowing into the intake so that a calculated amount of fuel (based on engine load / multiple maps) can be injected at a specific time for improved combustion (more power, better throttle response, reduced emissions, etc).

Honda has publically announced a goal for installing PGM-FI on all scooters sold in the domestic market by the fiscal year 2007 and installing PGM-FI on majority of models over the entire world by the end of year 2010, so it shouldn't be too long before we see this technology in the showroom (i.e. 2007 or 2008 CRF600X :applause:).

  • huntmaster

Posted November 30, 2005 - 08:49 AM

#24

is the CRF600X just something you guys think will be the new bike.is there some pics of the CRF600X or is it just rumors ?

Yes
No
Yes

  • Supplicate

Posted November 30, 2005 - 09:13 AM

#25

You guys are forgetting something here...

Even if Big Red drops the big thumpers completely, there is always the Pumpkin or the Huskie to turn to.

  • huntmaster

Posted November 30, 2005 - 09:14 AM

#26

The problem for Honda is that the dirt bike world has changed so much in the last 7 years from when the 650 R was designed.
It was a late baby to start with then when it arrived it was rather underwhelming. (especially compared the the YZ400 at the time)

????? Yes, and the YZ400 was underwhelming compared to the new GSXR 1000 that also came out also! Depends on your perspective I guess? The only underwhelming aspect here was that the MX-obsessed off-road media was looking for Honda's YZ answer, the CRF450 at the time the 650R came out and couldn't hide it's disappointment. Boo hoo...it wasn't a motocrosser. It turned out to be (surprise and shock) the new replacement for the XR600 as promised. It wasn't the new GoldWing either! How disappointing! :applause:

  • TimBrp

Posted November 30, 2005 - 09:23 AM

#27

You guys are forgetting something here...

Even if Big Red drops the big thumpers completely, there is always the Pumpkin or the Huskie to turn to.


And then we have to worry about high costing replacement OEM parts(KTM) or finding the parts we need(Husky). Don't get me wrong either, I own a husky...therefore, I've been there.

  • huntmaster

Posted November 30, 2005 - 09:29 AM

#28

And then we have to worry about high costing replacement OEM parts(KTM) or finding the parts we need(Husky). Don't get me wrong either, I own a husky...therefore, I've been there.

Agreed. Both are great bikes but are not direct replacements for the 650R.
There are few machines that match the Honda's legs and performance, and even fewer that match it's low maintenance, durability and reliability....but none that have both.

  • ThunderChicken

Posted November 30, 2005 - 10:09 AM

#29

werd.

  • Supplicate

Posted November 30, 2005 - 11:57 AM

#30

And then we have to worry about high costing replacement OEM parts(KTM) or finding the parts we need(Husky). Don't get me wrong either, I own a husky...therefore, I've been there.

I wasn't implying that it would be a simple switch.

I have grown too used to my XR's and being able to find parts for them anywhere and some swapability between the old (pre 2k) and new XR's.

But I've been looking at the KTM's since last summer when I slung a leg over one of the new 525's. Its going to be a completely different world out there without a BRP when this comes about.

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  • ThunderChicken

Posted November 30, 2005 - 12:05 PM

#31

I don't think they will be introducing any new dualsport bikes. I talked to the owner of a local Honda dealer and he said that according to Honda, dualsports only sell good in 5 states. Since they don't make a lot of money on them, why would they spend money to engineer a new one?


those 5 states represent 80% of new OHV units sold in the US.

california is reason enough for honda to sell a dual sported 450cc dirt bike.

  • Dave102429

Posted November 30, 2005 - 12:27 PM

#32

Did any of you guys notice that the website address of www.crf600.com is taken...and comes up on google.


Actually, the domain name crf600.com is unregistered. It can by yours for just $8.95/year.

https://www.godaddy....bb&se=+&ci=4086

  • TimBrp

Posted November 30, 2005 - 12:59 PM

#33

I'm just curious what Honda is going to do about Baja. Can they race older model bikes? Will they drop out of the program?

I looked at the KTM's too, to the point where I have applied and received a $20,000 KTM funcard that's in my wallet(that I'll probably never use unfortunately). The KTM's don't hold the oil that the Xr's do which means more frequent changes or at the least filling. Which if you're anyone that owns a KTM you know the oil changes suck. 2 filters, 2 screens etc. There's no catch can for the coolant(which can be added, but why should I have to do that?)

The husky's are sweet but cramped in the cockpit, for me at least. Nearly all of them have jetting hiccups that are tough to get rid of. Hell I saw some leftover 04's going for $3500 OTD on ebay 2 weeks ago. However, good luck finding a reliable dealer that can get or has parts in stock that you NEED. The drop of Xr's from Hondas line are unfortunate but is a good business decision on their part. Sh!tty for us though! They don't make money from the bikes that don't break....yah know..?!

  • rmhrc630

Posted November 30, 2005 - 01:10 PM

#34

Actually, the domain name crf600.com is unregistered. It can by yours for just $8.95/year.

https://www.godaddy....bb&se=+&ci=4086



Thats weird cos google does not take you there - normally it would???

  • rmhrc630

Posted November 30, 2005 - 01:22 PM

#35

I'm just curious what Honda is going to do about Baja. Can they race older model bikes? Will they drop out of the program?

I looked at the KTM's too, to the point where I have applied and received a $20,000 KTM funcard that's in my wallet(that I'll probably never use unfortunately). The KTM's don't hold the oil that the Xr's do which means more frequent changes or at the least filling. Which if you're anyone that owns a KTM you know the oil changes suck. 2 filters, 2 screens etc. There's no catch can for the coolant(which can be added, but why should I have to do that?)

The husky's are sweet but cramped in the cockpit, for me at least. Nearly all of them have jetting hiccups that are tough to get rid of. Hell I saw some leftover 04's going for $3500 OTD on ebay 2 weeks ago. However, good luck finding a reliable dealer that can get or has parts in stock that you NEED. The drop of Xr's from Hondas line are unfortunate but is a good business decision on their part. Sh!tty for us though! They don't make money from the bikes that don't break....yah know..?!



Tim why owuldnt they race the new CRF600?

Isn't it the same question from 5 years ago when Honda announced the XR650? As in well what do we do with the XR600?

I think it's just evolution. Honda needs to get back to a cutting edge design with features that whip everyone else and my main ones are:

1. Large cc bike - power will come with cc so does not have to be a ball tearer
2. Watercooled
3. EFI
4. Probably USDs (if ktm can fit them to big bore strokers...why can't Honda)
5. Maybe alloy frame (although interestingly the 650R frame is 1 kg heavier than the 600R frame.
6. 12-14 liter tank
7. Good instruments - maybe fuel guage.
8. Possibly an options package - ie make one bike but if you US owners want a stripped no frills bike then make one, whereas in Australia we need a bike than can be legally registered off the showroom then we strip it back to what we can get away with in our states. The differences could be instruments, buddy pegs, tank size options etc etc. I mean why cant Honda apply some car like salesmanship to the dirt bike world?
9. Clearly estarter - but somehow use a small lightweight battery. Perhaps design a charging system that really packs the battery full of juice once the bike starts??
10. Please make the bike aesthetically pleasing - this is one thing the 600 did well - it's look was awesome from day one and really did not need updating.

I think as you guys have mentioned before Honda should do an options package. If you're a baja racer then strip it - but Honda have to make sure it runs well. If you're a bona fide dual sporter then you can have all the crea, as well.

The husky TE610E is a sign of where Honda could apply their expertise. I would love a red and black Hondavarna!!!

Honda hurry up and release a new big bore!! The whole world doesnt want 12000rpm trail bikes.

  • AHRMA17L

Posted November 30, 2005 - 01:34 PM

#36

I'm just curious what Honda is going to do about Baja. Can they race older model bikes? Will they drop out of the program?


The same thing that Kawasaki did...disappear.

  • khelton

Posted November 30, 2005 - 02:10 PM

#37

Hold on, Cowgirls. Yer gonna blow out a knee jumping off the bandwagon. Think about this. Honda has a huge push afoot now to make as many of their dealers single line Honda dealers only, "Powerhouse" dealers. They are workng it extremely hard. If they remove dirtbikes, even dualsport bikes , from their lineup they would then have a hole in their lineup which many dealers would have to plug with another brand , KTM, Husky, Berg, etc. Or..just keep the Yamaha, Kawasaki etc. Not to mention it is a source of great advertising , winning the dirt races. I believe they value the ability to advertise those wins, especially in weak seasons like they have had in Superbike and Moto GP. I cannot imagine the mighty Honda removing a product line / market segment that they have been dominant in...unless they replace it with a new model...which very well may happen.

  • AHRMA17L

Posted November 30, 2005 - 02:22 PM

#38

Hold on, Cowgirls. Yer gonna blow out a knee jumping off the bandwagon. Think about this. Honda has a huge push afoot now to make as many of their dealers single line Honda dealers only, "Powerhouse" dealers. They are workng it extremely hard. If they remove dirtbikes, even dualsport bikes , from their lineup they would then have a hole in their lineup which many dealers would have to plug with another brand , KTM, Husky, Berg, etc. Or..just keep the Yamaha, Kawasaki etc. I cannot imagine the mighty Honda removing a product line / market segment that they have been dominant in...unless they replace it with a new model...which very well may happen.



Man, I do not know about that. I believed that at one time (about this time last year) but Honda had the audacity to get rid of the XR250 and XR400. That is a giant hole as neither the CRF250X nor the CRF450X can hold a candle to the market that these bikes filled. Dual sport one of those and take off on a 2500 mile ride? Never.

Suzuki must have thanked their lucky stars for having the DRZ400 already in production when Honda announced the demise of the XR400R.

No other modern four-stroke can match the simplicity and reliability of the XR. The DRZ is the only thing that is close in that market segment.

  • rmhrc630

Posted November 30, 2005 - 02:32 PM

#39

Man, I do not know about that. I believed that at one time (about this time last year) but Honda had the audacity to get rid of the XR250 and XR400. That is a giant hole as neither the CRF250X nor the CRF450X can hold a candle to the market that these bikes filled. Dual sport one of those and take off on a 2500 mile ride? Never.

Suzuki must have thanked their lucky stars for having the DRZ400 already in production when Honda announced the demise of the XR400R.

No other modern four-stroke can match the simplicity and reliability of the XR. The DRZ is the only thing that is close in that market segment.


You're dead on about the CRFs. Long distance riding machines they are not.

It comes back to my point before - Honda would appear to be follwing the time honoured method of market segmentation.

CRF - short distance blasts when you're feeling funky

XRF - long distance well equipped high country destroying machine.

  • huntmaster

Posted November 30, 2005 - 02:52 PM

#40

I'm just curious what Honda is going to do about Baja. Can they race older model bikes? Will they drop out of the program?

Not sure about SCORE rules, but in the US Kawasaki is racing the KX500 for an additional year until they develop the new 450 off road.
However, I think the general concensus for Honda is that here will be a new CRF600X or similar introduced, just as the 650R replaced the 600R, etc. Hopefully at that displacement, like the current 650, it won't have to be stressed to the limit (like the current MX based 450's) to make decent power and old XR virtues of reliability will remain intact!





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