It appears the XR650R and XR650L are dead


221 replies to this topic
  • ThunderChicken

Posted December 20, 2005 - 01:25 PM


they aren't listening. that is not their corporate culture.

they listen to one guy and that one guy listens to two guys.

that's it.

  • kehale

Posted December 20, 2005 - 01:36 PM


When will this thread die?
(that's the real question)

  • rmhrc630

Posted December 20, 2005 - 01:47 PM


when the new bike is announced

  • huntmaster

Posted December 20, 2005 - 02:01 PM


I just typed in www.crf600.com into my url address line, and the thumpertalk site popped up. Can anyone explain that?

does it have a two stroke forum now too?

  • mcdrz

Posted December 20, 2005 - 03:48 PM


when the new bike is announced


Then the belly aching will start about how they didn't listen to their customers and why they didn't give them what they asked for. Followed closely by why the hell did they do that? What were they thinkin's?

Then all the closet mechanics, machinists, and engineers will set to work on making the bike that Honda should have if they would have only listened.

  • BWB63

Posted December 20, 2005 - 04:30 PM


Then the belly aching will start about how they didn't listen to their customers and why they didn't give them what they asked for. Followed closely by why the hell did they do that? What were they thinkin's?

Then all the closet mechanics, machinists, and engineers will set to work on making the bike that Honda should have if they would have only listened.



Yes, as it should be! That is if you buy it and run it hard enough to get all that you can out of the bike you bought. Well the Honda CR250 Elsinor was a great bike and couldn't have gotten any better? Didn't take long for the riders to figure out that laying the shocks down made a better ride. Some of the top riders are just test pilots. "Then all the closet mechanics, machinists, and engineers will set to work on making the bike that Honda should have if they would have only listened." doesn't take much to figure out that Honda blew it on the right foot peg mount! Or the bent sub-frame but, things like the cheap carburetor is more then enough for some of the casual riders and you can make it work......there is better. There are those that just want a low cost bike to run around on and those that are looking for a bike they can get the most out of......This forum deals with both. Bike makers should be making a newer and better bikes that riders want to buy. KTM seems to be pushing that way but, the KTM is $500 more for $2,000 more stuff. I think the point is there are those here that want the lighter, more performance bike, with less maintenance or trouble. Otherwise we could all get a KLX650 and be happy :applause:

  • Jayzonk

Posted December 20, 2005 - 08:22 PM


Well, B-Dub, I'm not sure that being on the cutting edge is all that it's cracked up to be for Baja racing or general dirtbiking. Sure, it's time for an improvement in some obvious areas, but I'd still be happy with a core 650R, I think. Seems to have a strong niche in the desert, and I'm not sure that the cutting edge stuff out there is beating it.

  • BWB63

Posted December 20, 2005 - 09:29 PM


That is why I wrote, "I think the point is there are those here that want the lighter, more performance bike, with less maintenance or trouble." Once you ride some of the lighter bikes you find you can ride longer, faster, on some of them. The fork angle is to steep on most, and they get twitch fast as you get tired but, my point is they can make a better more up to date XR650R, that doesn't have the right foot peg falling off, lighter and even more reliable! The technology is there.

  • blueridge

Posted December 21, 2005 - 12:41 AM


hmmm, I'd take an updated XR650R with EFI in a heartbeat.

  • KASUYAHO

Posted December 21, 2005 - 03:39 AM


i was talking to a dealer over a year ago now and he was telling me about a meeting that all the dealers went to and the heads of Honda were there telling them what Honda was doing and what they want the dealers to do etc.
At the end of the meeting a little asia guy stood up at the back of the room and said Ymaha will be number in sales in Australia in 3 years.
This meeting was held in 1999 and the little asia guy was right.
Just some companies have to get a kick in the pants before they open there eyes to what really is going on in the out side world.
Lets just hope they have learn't from this one.

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  • khelton

Posted December 21, 2005 - 05:19 AM


i was talking to a dealer over a year ago now and he was telling me about a meeting that all the dealers went to and the heads of Honda were there telling them what Honda was doing and what they want the dealers to do etc.
At the end of the meeting a little asia guy stood up at the back of the room and said Ymaha will be number in sales in Australia in 3 years.
This meeting was held in 1999 and the little asia guy was right.
Just some companies have to get a kick in the pants before they open there eyes to what really is going on in the out side world.
Lets just hope they have learn't from this one.


Very interesting..Yamaha will not overtake Honda in the U.S. way to important market, hopefully that experience in Australia gave everyone a wakeup call....

  • huntmaster

Posted December 21, 2005 - 07:38 AM


Then all the closet mechanics, machinists, and engineers will set to work on making the bike that Honda should have if they would have only listened.

They probably listened, and built the best bike they could. But for all the "expertise" out there, some seem pretty unclear on what is the correct tool for their respective job. When you buy an MX bike and complain it's not a good trail bike and need's race bike maintenance....or buy a dualsport and complain it's heavy in the "whoops" and bottoms out on triple jumps, what's a poor designer to do? I know my Goldwing was really lacking ground clearance in the last enduro I rode. I'm really upset with Honda! :applause:

  • BWB63

Posted December 21, 2005 - 08:55 AM


They probably listened, and built the best bike they could. But for all the "expertise" out there, some seem pretty unclear on what is the correct tool for their respective job. When you buy an MX bike and complain it's not a good trail bike and need's race bike maintenance....or buy a dualsport and complain it's heavy in the "whoops" and bottoms out on triple jumps, what's a poor designer to do? I know my Goldwing was really lacking ground clearance in the last enduro I rode. I'm really upset with Honda! :applause:



The XR650R is not sold as a "Trail Bike" but, as a Baja 1000 race bike or "Desert Race" bike. I agree with the duel sport bikes are heavy and alway will be but, there is room to improve the XR650R's weight and even make it more reliable. So far the best "Tool, for the respective job" has been the XR650R but, that is going to change at some point as others make better bikes and Honda doesn't. The XR600R lost the Baja for years because Honda didn't make a better race bike but, stayed with there trail bike. Then they came out with the XR650R and have won for a lot of years. That is coming to an end. They need to be pro-active.

  • khelton

Posted December 21, 2005 - 09:28 AM


They probably listened, and built the best bike they could. But for all the "expertise" out there, some seem pretty unclear on what is the correct tool for their respective job. When you buy an MX bike and complain it's not a good trail bike and need's race bike maintenance....or buy a dualsport and complain it's heavy in the "whoops" and bottoms out on triple jumps, what's a poor designer to do? I know my Goldwing was really lacking ground clearance in the last enduro I rode. I'm really upset with Honda! :applause:


Huntmaster..XLNT input..how many times do we hear people making this same mistake. I Have a friend who said he sold his XR650L because it "felt too light on the interstate, got blown around..."..and he has been riding for 20 years. This is why he doesn't like the "L....

  • BWB63

Posted December 21, 2005 - 10:20 AM


hmmm, I'd take an updated XR650R with EFI in a heartbeat.



I am overdue for another bike.......I was hoping Honda would have the newer Desert race bike out or a teaser.........KTM525??? MY bike has a new engine and will get me to next year but, I am looking to add to the stable...........it's time :applause:

  • mcdrz

Posted December 21, 2005 - 11:12 AM


Honda doesn't need to produce any square wheels. They know the XR650R intimately. They know the problems or limitations like the back of their hand. They continue to build Baja winners from the ground up using the bike and they address its every short coming in their race bikes.

Honda just follow your own pattern of building race winners with a little engineering skill here: Lets take a little look here...

1) Motor: Take the bullet proof motor and do some redesign work to it, ala the 06 CRF450. Re-angle it a little, shave some crank and flywheel weight, add a 200W stator, 10.5:1 forged piston, shorten the stroke a little (4-5mm) to make the motor more compact and rev faster, HRC profile cam coupled with good springs and Ti retainers, Keihin FCR pumper, make it wet sump with a low oil resevior ala YZ450F guarded by an aluminum skid plate, and place a well designed Ti 96 db legal exhaust on it.

2) Chassis: New ergos with the fuel carried low, lower the radiators to get the center of gravity down, Showa USD forks/shock w/Ti spring, hydro formed swingarm, aluminum sub frame, light weight Ti pegs, light weight hubs/wheels, light weight triple clamps and handlebars, bar mounted hot start, etc

Sell it in a competition R version without E-start and with all the Ti goodies, exhaust, etc. goal here is 250-255 lbs dry $7799.00

Sell a street legal e-start X and SM version w/ stainless & aluminum exhaust, stainless pegs, etc. goal here is 265-270 lbs dry $7999.00

Please no uni-cam Ti valved maintenance nightmare for me.

  • blueridge

Posted December 21, 2005 - 11:28 AM


Make the street legal version EFI. Carbs give better throttle control, esp. at small openings, but guys with DS bikes, unlike racers going to the same track, take DS bikes through alot of altitude changes.

  • rmhrc630

Posted December 21, 2005 - 11:46 AM


Honda doesn't need to produce any square wheels. They know the XR650R intimately. They know the problems or limitations like the back of their hand. They continue to build Baja winners from the ground up using the bike and they address its every short coming in their race bikes.



In my opinion the 650 is no baja secret weapon bike.

Honda win baja because:

1 . They have the most organised team.
2. They throw ALOT of money into organising that team (more than any other and I would argue they do this as a backtop to prevent the 650Rs sales from freefalling as in no baja wins and no marketing mileage would be death in NA it appears)
3. They have the best riders.
4. Kawasaki doesn't race any more and Kawa lots some big riders in the 90s - the hamel brothers for one.
5. They have a good bike, not a world beater or secret weapon.

If KTM got super organised like Honda then sayonara XR650 and baja. Maybe thats why the new bike is coming? KTM are gonna win baja and then they are going to destroy the XR650. The best thing is actually for KTM and husqvarna to go 1-2 in Baja then Honda would get their final wake up call and we would get a better more modern bike. I thought 2005 was going to be the call but alas KTM fell on the wagon.

Honda I think (from an Australian perspective) make up for the shortcomings of the XR650R by forcing it to win baja, when really it does nothing better than anything else. It chews fuel, has outdated ergos, it's heavy and it handles ok. It's been doing this for 5 -6 years!!!

In Australia baja means zippo. We dont need a baja bike. Most bikes get sold in the eastern states and they are mountainous regions, not desert. We dont want a bike with raked out steering or ultra long wheelbase. That is why the 600 was so good - it could ride desert but it was not angled so hard at desert riding like the 650R is.

As for the 2 version new model - yes that is what Honda should do so we can build one like we want.

That comment about Honda before and losing ground to Yamaha (as well as KTM) is true. In the entire 90s it was XRs all the way offroad - 250s and 600s sold by the boatload here. It was common to go trailriding and 90% of riders road XRs - fair dinkum!!! It was like well Honda you got the market sussed.

Then they dropped the ball and los their dominance. The WR line was a nuclear bomb to the XRs.

That was what 7 years ago...&%$#@! are you doing Honda?

Do they expect us today to buy 1998 model preludes or civics or whatever car they made then?

  • trailsurfer

Posted December 21, 2005 - 04:20 PM


That was funny.

  • BWB63

Posted December 21, 2005 - 04:46 PM


In my opinion the 650 is no baja secret weapon bike.

Honda win baja because:

1 . They have the most organised team.
2. They throw ALOT of money into organising that team (more than any other and I would argue they do this as a backtop to prevent the 650Rs sales from freefalling as in no baja wins and no marketing mileage would be death in NA it appears)
3. They have the best riders.
4. Kawasaki doesn't race any more and Kawa lots some big riders in the 90s - the hamel brothers for one.
5. They have a good bike, not a world beater or secret weapon.

If KTM got super organised like Honda then sayonara XR650 and baja. Maybe thats why the new bike is coming? KTM are gonna win baja and then they are going to destroy the XR650. The best thing is actually for KTM and husqvarna to go 1-2 in Baja then Honda would get their final wake up call and we would get a better more modern bike. I thought 2005 was going to be the call but alas KTM fell on the wagon.

Honda I think (from an Australian perspective) make up for the shortcomings of the XR650R by forcing it to win baja, when really it does nothing better than anything else. It chews fuel, has outdated ergos, it's heavy and it handles ok. It's been doing this for 5 -6 years!!!

In Australia baja means zippo. We dont need a baja bike. Most bikes get sold in the eastern states and they are mountainous regions, not desert. We dont want a bike with raked out steering or ultra long wheelbase. That is why the 600 was so good - it could ride desert but it was not angled so hard at desert riding like the 650R is.

As for the 2 version new model - yes that is what Honda should do so we can build one like we want.

That comment about Honda before and losing ground to Yamaha (as well as KTM) is true. In the entire 90s it was XRs all the way offroad - 250s and 600s sold by the boatload here. It was common to go trailriding and 90% of riders road XRs - fair dinkum!!! It was like well Honda you got the market sussed.

Then they dropped the ball and los their dominance. The WR line was a nuclear bomb to the XRs.

That was what 7 years ago...&%$#@! are you doing Honda?

Do they expect us today to buy 1998 model preludes or civics or whatever car they made then?


The top how many winning bikes in Baja are XR650R's? Yes, it getting out-dated but even in the Safari down under the XR650R is one of the top contenders. KTM also rule in that race but, the XR650R is always in the top,
Jamie Cunningham (Honda XR650R) was declared the winner of the 2004 Australian Safari

Honda does need to get on the ball to come back. It isn't all about team Honda, the XR650R is coming in the top five with out Team Honda support. In the sportsmens class the Baja is Dominated by the XR650R! The KTM's and others just do not finish the Baja 1K .... If they do it's finished, that is a fact!





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