Renthal chains?


23 replies to this topic
  • Cirus

Posted November 28, 2005 - 08:16 PM

#1

Are they any good? Just ordered a R3 Gold but never had any experience with O ring chains.

  • SC7

Posted November 29, 2005 - 05:19 AM

#2

Renthal is certainly a good chain, and you should have no problems, and they will last long time. Be aware though that when the chain is cold your rear wheel will not roll very free, but when you ride it warms up and gets freed up. Also after washing your bike all you need to do is put a water disperstant oil(like WD-40) for light oiling. Ever so often you can put a good o-ring oil on, but clean it off after applying, or dirt will stick to the chain, and get down in the o-rings. (bad)
If you ride pure moto, I'm not to sure I would go o-ring, but any off-road then there a clear choice, no stretching.
Hope that helps.

  • Matt96xr6

Posted November 29, 2005 - 08:05 AM

#3

They are made by Regina to the Renthal specs. Not a bad chain, but for the price there are better ones out there.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 29, 2005 - 10:30 AM

#4

The only thing "made to Renthal specs" is the stamped logo on the link plates. The R1 and R3 chains are in fact Regina OR series chains, although I'm not sure which is which model. I would guess the ORC6 and ORN6, but that might not be correct. Either way, all four are excellent chains, and will last a very long time given any kind of reasonable care.

The point about price is right on, though, and for future reference, remember that you can get a Regina exactly like the R3 for about $15-$25 less under its own name.

  • ONLY4STROKES

Posted November 29, 2005 - 02:42 PM

#5

I use a Renthal R1 Works Gold Chain.

So far it is holding up excellently and looks sweet too. No complaints.

  • dragon264

Posted November 29, 2005 - 04:53 PM

#6

what about the renthal sprockets, do they wear fast?

  • grayracer513

Posted November 30, 2005 - 10:08 AM

#7

That's been my experience with them, yes. TAG Metals aluminum rears last much longer.

  • TimFurryBalls

Posted November 30, 2005 - 01:58 PM

#8

And by the way AFAM makes Tag Metal's sprockets. . . :applause:

  • ONLY4STROKES

Posted November 30, 2005 - 02:24 PM

#9

I've heard the Tag rear sprockets last longer, but my Renthal is wearing like iron.

  • grayracer513

Posted November 30, 2005 - 03:51 PM

#10

And by the way AFAM makes Tag Metal's sprockets. . . :applause:

Well, then, if they're both made from equivalent alloys, and the AFAM's are hard anodized, like the TAG's, they should both be good, eh?

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  • DigilubeJay

Posted December 01, 2005 - 08:55 PM

#11

A hard anodized aluminum alloy sprocket will wear just as fast as a non anodized sprocket. Anodizing is only a surface treatment and helps the integrity of the teeth about zero. When your chain grows from wear, that little bit of surface anodizing isn't going to help squat.

All sprockets made of 7075-T6 alloy will wear exactly the same when put through the exact same conditions no matter the manufacurer, IF they are concentric.

The length that the equipment lasts is relative to the care you give the chain and sprockets, and their adjustments. Much more than it has to do with brand names.

Some people can buy a ring chain and have it and the sprockets wore out in 6 months of riding every weekend, while others can use a standard cheapo chain, riding motos 2-3 times a week and race every weekend for a year before they wear their stuff out.
It's all a matter of the care given.

  • grayracer513

Posted December 02, 2005 - 11:39 AM

#12

A hard anodized aluminum alloy sprocket will wear just as fast as a non anodized sprocket. Anodizing is only a surface treatment and helps the integrity of the teeth about zero. When your chain grows from wear, that little bit of surface anodizing isn't going to help squat.

Well, now, you are absolutely correct. In fact, a "stretched" chain, which is in reality almost always one that's overlong due to wear, will even chew up a steel sprocket rather quickly, and that's why such chains can't be tolerated, and it's why I never run one.

However, my first hand experience has shown repeatedly that my chain will normally outlast at least one rear sprocket long before it arrives at such a state of wear. And, since that means we're discussing chains that are not out of spec (at least, I was) the hard anodizing does in fact make a difference.

  • Sipe3

Posted December 03, 2005 - 02:50 PM

#13

And, since that means we're discussing chains that are not out of spec (at least, I was) the hard anodizing does in fact make a difference.


Okay, let me see if I understand this correctly. Gray are you saying that aluminum that has been anodized, let's say 7075 T-6, since I believe that is what renthal sprockets are made of. These sprockets are more durable since they have been through the anodizing process?

I know anodizing aluminum makes the metal more corrosion resistant. I was unaware of the wear and durability factor.

  • ncmountainman

Posted December 03, 2005 - 05:19 PM

#14

i thought anodizing and hard anodizing were 2 different animals,at least thats how sprocket specialists explained it to me. that hard anodizing penetrated the aluminum through a heat and pressure process. thats the only performance aluminum sprocket i've ever run (titan tough ?) and i was quite impressed with how it ran. goosedog is running it now as it was a 51 and i really wanted a 52. hows it workin' goosedog?

  • grayracer513

Posted December 03, 2005 - 06:40 PM

#15

i thought anodizing and hard anodizing were 2 different animals,

And you were right. Hard anodizing and decorative anodizing are a lot.

Decorative anodizing is not hard at all, and not many people would think that hard anodizing was particularly decorative, either.

  • DigilubeJay

Posted December 04, 2005 - 03:35 AM

#16

There is not much difference between type II anodizing (decorative) and type III anodizing (hardcoat).
Both process' simply change the molecular structure of the oxide layer of the metal. The result is a harder layer of aluminum hydrate at the surfaces.
Type II will generally harden a layer anywhere from .0005" to .001" thick.
Type III can create a harder layer up to .002" thick.
In both process' the increase in surface hardness extends half way into the original surface and half way extending past the original surface. (a surface that gained .002" will increase the measured size by .001")

Both process grow the surface by changing the molecular structure of the oxide layer, but the decorative type requires the samples to be heated a bit to get the dyes to take.
Hardcoat anodizing uses a "cold" process rather than heat. It also requires a bit more electricity to stimulate the parts than does the type II method.

Both process' are essentially the same, just one can turn out a thicker hardening (+/- .001") than the other.

But when we are talking protection from the rigors an elongated or damaged chain places on the sprocket, neither process of anodizing can withstand.

Gray,
I don't know what to say to you. I know for a fact that none of your rear sprockets (as long as they are quality equipment) wore out due to anything other than your chain elongating, being mal-adjusted, or having damaged sections.
You are a smart guy...explain to us just what damage you are talking about, and how it came about when your chains are within spec?
You may be onto something that the chain mfgs and power transmission folks have missed for years! :applause:

  • SureBlue

Posted December 04, 2005 - 05:53 AM

#17

DigilubeJay, I would appreciate your answer to my PM of November 2, whatever the answer is, thank you.

  • grayracer513

Posted December 04, 2005 - 12:10 PM

#18

Gray,
I don't know what to say to you. I know for a fact that none of your rear sprockets (as long as they are quality equipment) wore out due to anything other than your chain elongating, being mal-adjusted, or having damaged sections.

Really? And when were you at my house inspecting my bikes? Apparently, it's something you've done regularly enough in the past to arrive at this conclusion. Your statement does require you to either be physically in the presence of the equipment in question during the maintenance events I mentioned, doesn't it? It also fails to endure any test of logic.

explain to us just what damage you are talking about, and how it came about when your chains are within spec?

Would you say that This Aluminum Sprocket is worn, or not? That's the 48 tooth Sunstar on the back of Junior's 250F (forward is to the left in the photo). I apologize for not making it prettier for this picture, but we've both been sick since we got back from 4 days in the mountains and desert over Thanksgiving, and the bikes are still dirty. Shoot me. The other thing that may interest you about this sprocket is that it's had the same chain on it for well over a year now, and that same chain currently measures 5.875" using the method shown on 3-32 of the '01 250F manual. This puts it at about 0.4% longer than the manufactured length of 5.85", and well under Yamaha's service limit of 6" (which, as we both actually agree, is a little on the long side, to be practical, at 2.5% overlength). Inasmuch as the the tooth faces here are half of the interface between two load bearing, moving parts operated outdoors in an uncontrolled and hostile environment, maybe you can surprise everyone and figure out how this came about in the absence of any of the conditions you listed all by your self.

  • FZ1426

Posted December 04, 2005 - 12:33 PM

#19

I my experience, chains are worn to the point of being junk long before they reach the pin to pin length specified in the service manual. Sprocket wear is exacerbated as much by improper tension (either way), side to side whipping, extent of suspension working, power application (riding technique), internal roller wear, and wheel misalignment as pin to pin length.

  • DigilubeJay

Posted December 05, 2005 - 03:47 AM

#20

Apparently, it's something you've done regularly enough in the past to arrive at this conclusion.

Yes, indeed it is something that I have done in the past. Power transmission issues are part of my livelyhood, and I have studied them, tested them, and have a full understanding of chain and sprocket dynamics.
You are simply making assumptions.

Your statement does require you to either be physically in the presence of the equipment in question during the maintenance events I mentioned, doesn't it? It also fails to endure any test of logic.

No, gray...it doesn't require my physical presense to make an intelligent, logical assessment of your equipments situation. I know all of the variables that can attribute themselves to chain and sprocket wear.
When sprocket teeth wear, there are only so many things that can be the root cause(s)...and if you have found something that causes this wear that we are not aware of...then you need to fill us in, and be very specific...

If a person calls you with an IT problem, and you know have experieince with the situation the customer describes...and you know exactly what their problem is, do you find the need to make a visit? Even when you KNOW what their problem is, do you find it too far out of the box to explain to them what the problem is on the phone?



Inasmuch as the the tooth faces here are half of the interface between two load bearing, moving parts operated outdoors in an uncontrolled and hostile environment, maybe you can surprise everyone and figure out how this came about in the absence of any of the conditions you listed all by your self.

No, gray...it was YOU I asked to explain how this came about, and you come up with a hostile, uncontrolled environment.
And yes, there are some trail hazzanrds that cannot be avoided. There is always going to be dirt and grit that come in contact with the bearing surfaces of the chain and sprocket. BUT...these sorts of trail hazzards do not net the sort of damage that your picture shows. It is obvious to me that you either had a bad adjustment, or your chain was past length specification.

It is quite obvious from the picture that the chain pitch is no longer even close to the pitch of the sprocket. Trail dust and the brute force of the 250F do not cause this. Elongated chains and/or too taught an adjustment caused this.
Since some like to make assumptions and pass them on to others as fact every chance they get....my assumption is that that particular sprocket has seen at least four days of riding in the mountains and desert without being re-lubed or cleaned.
And I can't vouch for the length, as I am not physically there to see just where your screw up is...but I have to say that if the chain is indeed not elongated, then there is definately a tension problem.

A chain that is tensioned properly, and is within safe running specifications, wil NOT damage a rear sprocket like the one in your photo.
However, I am still curious what you think caused it...and hostile uncontrolled environment doesn't cut it...explain how those conditions made the sprocket look like it does. (try some detail for a change)

Oh, and btw...did you get you info on anodizing the same place you learned about chain and sprocket maintenance? :applause:
(another incorrect assumtion you clearly stated as fact, without having any real knowledge of the subject)
But that's what happens when someone has a superiority complex and a fan club of clowns to cheer him on. They tend to think eveything that passes through there skull is the only way things are.





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