going GREEN tommorow


158 replies to this topic
  • RAMARION

Posted January 03, 2006 - 07:45 PM


we all know, there will be a few 2006 Blue and Green 450 bikes that will genade...........I just hope it's not mine............lol

  • falshh

Posted January 03, 2006 - 08:41 PM


I have a few things to point out here. First, you are way off base on the 4 vs. 5 speed question. The only way that a 5 speed would require you to shift more often is if the 5 gears were spaced between the same first and top gears, or if the overall gearing was lowered so that top gear is the same in both configurations. If you look at the ratios, the new YZ450 5 speed is the the same four top ratios as the 426 was, but it has the same 1st gear that the 4 speed had. This makes it an even wider ratio transmission than the 426, and the ratios 1 through 4 are nearly identical to those that were there in the first place. When you gear for a particular track, one of the things you have to consider is whether you can cover the top speed on the fastest section. You can do this with the 4 speed, as I do, but on a circuit with a high terminal speed, you end up with two problems, a tall first gear and wide spaces between all the other gears. The 450 can deal with the big gear spread, but sometimes you're stuck with a gear that's not quite ideal for a given spot. There's another choice, of course, which is to gear it shorter and just haul the clutch in and coast over the end of the fast part. No? Yeah, me either.

But the new 5 speed covers a wider overall spread of gear ratios, and as such, gives you the top speed on such a track as the one I just mentioned without the fat gaps between shifts. As the '06 owners pointed out, they are still using the transmission in the same way they used the 4 speed. On shorter tracks, you have the choice to gear it down to space the gears closer together, or leave it geared taller to keep the gaps big and not have to shift so much. Either way, knocking the '06 YZ450 because it's a 5 speed is totally bogus and reveals the fact that you haven't looked into the situation in any depth. Or it's just an excuse.

Next, please explain how the selection of the plastic decomp bore plug constitutes a design flaw, and then count on one hand the number on YZF's that actually became "toast" as a result of spitting one out. Mine did it, and the oily radiator was the extent of all the damage done. Design flaw? Of what? The plug? I fixed that for $.75.

On the price question, the MSRP of the YZ450F (blue) is the same $6899 that a CRF goes for, and a whopping $100 more than the KXF. If you're looking at someone asking $8599 for a YZ450 (which is what the KXF's MSRP plus $1800 comes out to) and giving even a single serious thought to buying from him, it's your own fault. And yes, it is worth more than the CRF and the KXF and the RMZ because it's better.

The attempt to tag the '06 YZ as a first year bike was a nice try, but it doesn't stick. The only thing different about the oiling system is the location of the dry sump reservoir and the routing of the oil passages through internal drillways rather than external lines. The other changes to the bike, as many as there have been, are refinements rather than wholesale new designs. Only the frame itself and the front fork are completely new items. The KXF, on the other hand, is in fact all new. Honestly, I'm impressed with both the KXF and the RMZ. They look to be fairly well executed first year issues, and I hope they do well. But the choice of a 4 speed in the face of Yamaha's sales experience with one is mystifying, and the fact that Kawasaki could have put a frame all the way into preproduction without finding out it was subject to snapping in two is not inspiring.

The KXF is using last year's technology in the KYB AOSS fork as well, and the suspension has not reviewed very well with credible testers.

And lastly, what purpose is served exactly by your announcement to a group of people that the bike most of them like sucks and you're going to buy something different? It obviously isn't that you want any input from YZF fans on your decision. So, either you are trying to assuage your lack of confidence that you're making the right choice, or you're just trolling. If the KXF just appeals to you for some reason, then fine. I hope it works out for you. But I won't buy into any specious contentions about the supposed flaws of the bike you are rejecting, either. And, I just don't understand how you could have thought that there would be a different result than you came up with here in posting such a thread. No good really ever comes of it.

That's what I think.


gey racer take a chill pill, youve taken most of that out of context from what I had said, and every thing you just wrote has been hashed over so many times on this thread Im not going to go through it again, Yamahas a great bikes, but you are silly to be so brand loyal (dont respond to this comment see earlier on in the thread for my point of view)
You know we are comparing the kx and yz 06 and you dont have either bike so dont worry about it and as far as why I started the thead I am a yz owner also and there has been great info in this thread from both points of view it could be very educational for a prospective buyer WITH A 0PEN MIND .
besides this has given everone something to read instead of ride, because of crappy weather.
I know you technicaly know these bikes but there is more to riding than just that.I am loving my kx so let it be, if you want the new yz get one and be happy.
B.T.W. you are kiddin yourself if you think the 06yz450 is so much better than the rest, the competition is really tight.Have you even ridden one of these bikes enough to know?Looks like you are still on the 03yz.

cant we all just be a happy family :cry: :cry: :cry:

I may take you up on the wheel lace up job though so no hard feelins right :applause:

I know my spelling and grammer sucks(ha ha beat you to it)anyway satch0922 is keeping on top of it for me!!Thanks satch :bonk:

  • falshh

Posted January 03, 2006 - 08:55 PM


Falshh I totally RESPECTFULLY disagree.....I think that this MCCT on the 05 & 06 RMZ is a worthless stupid design since day 1 and have had more than 1 Zuk owner as well as as Zuk dealership owner agree....It is a dumb routine that I refuse to do period, until it is time to replace it for $30.00! I would not consider a RMZ in my garage for this reason....not to mention the numerous documented cases that they are blowing up....
I also will defend the turning of a 03 - 05 YZF....they can be made to turn better than stock with different links or different steering offsets....yes a 06 anything should turn better stock than the 03-05 YZFs ... but with some basic tweeking the 03 - 05 can turn to...
I could buy either a red, Blue or Green 06 450 a be happy.........or a yellow Yami ..... and yea they all will cost money after the first 6-12mos of ownership to maintain....I just have a better idea what the Yami will cost me.. :applause:



Do not defend the turning of the 03-05, once you ride a bike that does turn you will wish you never wrote that, but dont feel bad I used to defend it also and I never realized how bad it was till the kx.You did say all 06 will turn better and I agree, but I think anything 03-05 turned better than the yz, and its a shame because the motor is absolutely awsome, but the steering and the bulldozer feel really held it back.The newer bikes dont only steer better , but the overall feel of the bike is night and day lighter, it amazes me how far bikes have come in a couple years.Yes I tried to make my 04yz turn better, new front tire, storm link etc and they helped but it was nothing to talk about.Before everyone jumps on me I now the 06yz turns awsome now o.k.

Anyway GA426owner If you like your bike that is all that matters,there will always be better stuff coming out and I know i cant afford to keep up every year, so be happy with what you have and make it work.I still love my 04 but the more I ride the kx the more I frown on it, but if I never tried the kx Iwould have been happy as pie for a long time.

good luck and thanks for the input.

  • falshh

Posted January 03, 2006 - 09:00 PM


we all know, there will be a few 2006 Blue and Green 450 bikes that will genade...........I just hope it's not mine............lol


thats for sure and after this thread I would be damned if I would admit it anyway. :bonk: :applause:

  • falshh

Posted January 03, 2006 - 09:04 PM


You know just because it has more gears you don,t have to use them I road one and i would only be using 2-3-4 on an mx track


That was stated multiple times about 50 posts ago.and answered read the whole thead if you have about 3 hours.

  • G-REEDfofiddy

Posted January 03, 2006 - 09:29 PM


how come everytime there is an argument, i see your name OPENCLASS, hey no offense i kinda like the competitive spirit!

  • falshh

Posted January 03, 2006 - 09:36 PM


Its frustrating to talk to brand loyal ,closed minded people and we like to shed some light for the good of all :applause: Im not saying all you guys are like that.OH wait Im still one of you guys. Ok you are all still cool.

  • G-REEDfofiddy

Posted January 03, 2006 - 09:41 PM


yeah right now i ride a honda, and think it is a great bike, but if i were in the market for a new bike, i would get whatever bike is the best. regardless of brand. i used to think honda is the one and only but now i realized i might miss out on something better if i stay brand loyal. ( with that said all i know is i love my crf450 and you guys probaly think kawi or yamaha is best, but i like what i ride and frankly that is all that counts.

  • falshh

Posted January 03, 2006 - 09:57 PM


yeah right now i ride a honda, and think it is a great bike, but if i were in the market for a new bike, i would get whatever bike is the best. regardless of brand. i used to think honda is the one and only but now i realized i might miss out on something better if i stay brand loyal. ( with that said all i know is i love my crf450 and you guys probaly think kawi or yamaha is best, but i like what i ride and frankly that is all that counts.



Damn right :applause:

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  • Open_Class

Posted January 04, 2006 - 03:57 AM


how come everytime there is an argument, i see your name OPENCLASS, hey no offense i kinda like the competitive spirit!


G,

just doing my part in defence of truth, justice, and the persuit of the open mind.

....I crack myself up. :applause:

  • MotoGoalie

Posted January 04, 2006 - 08:03 AM


Its frustrating to talk to brand loyal ,closed minded people and we like to shed some light for the good of all :applause: Im not saying all you guys are like that.OH wait Im still one of you guys. Ok you are all still cool.


Look at my sig.

I currently have an xR250 also and just sold a cR 250 smoker. Brand loyal?

Hardly.

I don't like doing maintenance. I like reliable bikes.

I guess we can all be glad we didn't buy a suckzuki. Sounds like those bikes are worse than CRF250s. :bonk:

  • Jetsprint2

Posted January 04, 2006 - 08:07 AM


Look at my sig.

I currently have an xR250 also and just sold a cR 250 smoker. Brand loyal?

Hardly.

I don't like doing maintenance. I like reliable bikes.

I guess we can all be glad we didn't buy a suckzuki. Sounds like those bikes are worse than CRF250s. :applause:


There have been a couple suckzuki meltdowns here in Boise, Idaho.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 04, 2006 - 08:56 AM


gey racer

I hope that was a typo, and not a revelation of a character flaw of yours

take a chill pill, youve taken most of that out of context from what I had said, and every thing you just wrote has been hashed over so many times on this thread

I don't think so. And I read the thread before I posted, so I'm familiar with its contents. Concerning the context, you did say that you were choosing the KXF in part because you liked the 4 speed. The premise was incorrectly presented that having a 5 speed necessarily required shifting more often. I presented the argument that a 5 speed as offered in the '06 is more versatile and by its configuration does not require any more shifting than the 4 speed that I own.

You did attempt to cite the OEM decomp plug as a "design flaw", and associated it with a high risk of serious engine damage, when neither is true.

The attempt was made to say that there is an "$1800" premium to be paid to own a YZ450, when in fact, the difference is $100.

The '06 YZ450 was cast as a completely new design, and therefore a first year bike in toto, as is the KXF. That is also false. It is an evolutionary change, based on proven designs and components.

The point is that you and anyone else are entitled to your opinions, and entitled to choose the KXF if you want for whatever reasons you want. My problem is when you try to rationalize your choice by trying to support it with, well, BS, frankly.

(dont respond to this comment see earlier on in the thread for my point of view)
You know we are comparing the kx and yz 06 and you dont have either bike so dont worry about it

So you're going to tell me what to respond to now? When I can voice my opinion and when I can't?

I appreciate the attempt to discredit the messenger when you don't care for the message. Why does what bike I own have anything to do with what I can have a considered opinion about? How much time had you spent on an '06 KXF before you made your informed choice to buy one? Have you ever ridden an '06 YZ450F at all?

You need to get off of the personal attack thing and stick to the issues. Lots of people have switched brands and said so without causing all this trouble. "Gonzo" went to an RMZ, "Satch" went to a smoker, and "Tim Furry Balls" (don't ask, I don't have a clue) went red, and none of them stirred anything up on their way out (well, Tim did, but we all expect that from him). These guys all chose something different, but they backed up their choices in a more positive and reality based manner. Where it just "felt right", they said that, instead of making up an imaginary fault with "the other bike".

As I have said before, the KXF is an impressive piece of work. Personally, I would rank it third behind the the YZ and the CRF. But we all use our own filters to arrive at the choices. So, except for my above stated objection to fabricated selection rationales, I hold no malice toward the bike or anyone who decides they want one. But how do you justify your reaction to my refusal to jump on your little bandwagon as the actions of a closed-minded, brand loyal, jealous zealot?

It looks to me as if you are trying less to share quality information with us than you are looking for affirmation of your choice. It strikes me as a peculiar group to choose to try to get it from. Or, perhaps you had a bad experience with your Yamaha and you're trying to transfer your anger at the bike to us by telling us all you're abandoning the camp. OTOH, the motivation of some of the other posters on your side of the question (as, I suppose, on mine as well) has been more on the lines of naked trolling. Either way, as I have also said, I sincerely hope the bike works out for you. It wouldn't be as much fun if we all liked the same thing, and serious competition will improve everyone's product, as it always does. Just don't expect me to join you.

And if the wheel offer interests you seriously, PM me. :applause:

  • Open_Class

Posted January 04, 2006 - 09:13 AM


greyracer, you clearly have not read the other threads in the yamaha forum by owners of the 06 YZF.....they DO shift more. That is a real world opinion by someone who owns it, so your entire dissertation is moot.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 04, 2006 - 09:49 AM


greyracer, you clearly have not read the other threads in the yamaha forum by owners of the 06 YZF.....they DO shift more. That is a real world opinion by someone who owns it, so your entire dissertation is moot.

Like these?

Anyway I have been riding the YZ450 since Nov. '02 and I liked the four speed alot. I ride just MX tracks. I now have three days of riding on my new 5-speed YZ450 and no complaints or shifting 100 times a lap. I honestly do not even notice it, 5 gear is overdrive! I'm still in third gear most of the time.


The 5 speed on the 2006 YZ vs 05 CRF 450 with stock gearing is a little wider. I'm not shifthing as much with the YZ as I had to on the CRF.


I think some people are forgeting what has been said about the 06 YZ450. With a ton of torque, and very smooth power delivery from top to bottom. That means less shifting whether it be 4 speed or 5.


I'm coming off an '03 YZ450F with a four speed. I have ridden one full day on my new 5 speed '06 YZ450F. On the track, it's still the same: I use two gears. On the '03, it was second and third gears. On the '06, it's third and fourth gears. So what's the difference? Nothing. Except I can now use the '06 for supermoto and cross country races without screaming the four speed, wishing I had another gear.

I will never go back to a four speed again. It offers no advantages over a five speed. I would have looked at the KXF for '06, but a four speed kills the bike in my opinion. And I'm a die hard motocrosser, riding the amateur races at Washougal, Glen Helen, Hangtown, etc.

It's you who have not read with an open mind, my friend. The first four gears in the '06 YZ450 are nearly identical to the 4 in my bike. Once you gear it the same as mine, it will shift as mine does, but it will have one more on top. Try again.

  • MotoGoalie

Posted January 04, 2006 - 09:51 AM


Open_class, Greyracer just handed you some more of your own ass.... :applause:

  • Open_Class

Posted January 04, 2006 - 10:06 AM


I have neither the time nor the inclination to cut and paste the dissenting opinions on "shifting more or less". I'll leave it to everyone to read them for themselves.

Clearly the "No more shifting" is not universal, it is experienced by some, if not many, and it STILL makes your dissertation moot.

What is that adage about people who try overly hard to make their point, or talk to much in doing so...."their hiding something". Hmm, what could it be? Oh that's right close mindedness.

btw greymind - I owned the 03 YZ450 and I have recently riden the 06 YZ450....and guess what I shift more on it!! and I shift more on it than I do my KXF!! Until you ride one, your purely spewing theory and the words of others...and that is the deffinition of a fool.

  • G-REEDfofiddy

Posted January 04, 2006 - 11:32 AM


lets just forget about shifting and demand that they make an automatic and then you guys do not have to fight about it! hahahahahaha.

  • SUnruh

Posted January 04, 2006 - 11:38 AM


you guys are done.





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