going GREEN tommorow


158 replies to this topic
  • Satch0922

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:09 PM


I stand corrected by a guy who can't spell........

BTW...if YOU read....I do not have a 450....Jackleg... :applause:

  • falshh

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:13 PM


this is from another thread (easy to find in this forum). Talk about "learning from other manufacturer's mistakes"....please....



But this is ok....the KXF is a first year bike ...

:applause:


When I got my yz my buddy got one the same day and our first ride he had small amount of oil leaking from head and it was the same thing, a loose bolt, I didnt going crying to everyone yamaha sucks, its a loose bolt could have come loose in shipping it didnt make yamaha a bad bike or bad design.

common man loosen up.dealer fixed it for free and its been great ever since, this is the type of comment that misguides guys looking for good info.I got no problem with the statement but dont necessarily blame the manafacturer, the dealer should be checking the bolts.

  • falshh

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:17 PM


I stand corrected by a guy who can't spell........

BTW...if YOU read....I do not have a 450....Jackleg... :applause:

Then dont comment on them incorrectly and make yourself look like a jackleg :bonk:
Yea I can admit it my spelling sucks I dont bother doing spell check, I think you can get the point.Im not a office type guy

  • Satch0922

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:21 PM


Ok...let me get this straight. A bike that is designed to clear 120ft triples and LaRocco's leap has a head bolt come loose during shipping? That...made me laugh.

Now I think I will go talk to my 10 year old son and 6 year old daughter.....I have to tell them they are "office guys"! LMAO

  • Satch0922

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:25 PM


Price....that is not what you should be looking at. If so...I know where there is a warehouse full of 2005 KX125's for cheap! :applause:

  • falshh

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:25 PM


falshh: So if you were going to pick between an 06 RMZ450, and an 06 YZF450, what would you pick? I know your going to say, what about they Kawi or Honda, but I don't like the dealership here that carries those brands. There are great people working there, I just don't like the owner.


I would personaly get a 05 rmz.But if the 06 yz was the same price as a 06rmz I would go for the yz I dont like yellow, and I do trust yamaha.but that doesnt mean the zuk isnt good I dont know how yamaha justifyes that price, maybe because they are in short demand right now, IM sure they will come down later in the year once there are a few on the dealer floors.In fact they will have to the competition is very tight this year.

Having a good dealer means alot, but unless your bike dies within 30 day, and if you do all your own bike repairs, I wouldnt make as much difference to me.
I know kawi has absolutely 0 warrenty periond on there 450.I thought that was kind of weird not even 30 days, but so far I havnt needed anything, and I get all my parts for my bikes online(its cheaper).

If you go with a honda or kawi make sure you do a great inspection on the bike, I mean get under it check every weld for cracks or undercut, check for dents scratches everything.Makes sure it starts great with no problems, and chances are you will be fine.(I say this because you said you dont trust the dealer)

Unless your other dealer honers warrenty longer than the manafacturer does that would be my opinion.

  • tdc_worm

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:27 PM


tdc, you are not entirely right either. To imply that kawasaki has not paid close attention to what has worked, and not worked, over the last few years is....nieve at best.


that was not my claim. my claim is that for every second of attention that kawi has paid to the performance or mistakes of bikes already in production, the manufacturers of those bikes have paid equal attention. to think that honda, suzuki, and yamaha does not is naive. that is why they refine their bikes from year to year. kawi learned no more from any of honda's mistakes than did honda or any one else for that matter. case in point: kawi had the oppurtunity to reverse engineer several years of production and technology into their first 250f in 2004. yamaha gave them a base from which to build. if they would have paid this attention, would there have been as many left intake valve issues with the 04 kx250f? i own one, and i just got a $406 bill today to make it run again.

  • tdc_worm

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:31 PM


put it this way if suzuki and kawi, didnt pay attention from other manafactures designs, then both of there first 450s blow away yamaha and hondas FIRST 450, now I know you arnt going to give them that much credit, to have both of there first 450s that much better than the fist 450s and possibly the best of even this year compared to honda and yamaha.They did a good job on there homework and it shows.yamaha also has been getting better and better.


here i totally agree with you. it only follows that if you can build off of what has been proven to work, then you will succeed as well. i dont have first hand experience of every first year model, but i would assert that each newer year bike is as good as each bike that was introduced before it... this is strictly from a performance standpoint, not a longevity standpoint....

  • falshh

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:34 PM


Price....that is not what you should be looking at. If so...I know where there is a warehouse full of 2005 KX125's for cheap! :cry:


satch your not paying attention again, I hope your not teaching that to your kids, we are comparing 450 prices. and I dont know how much you make a year but for most guys price is a huge factor especialy when you are comparing bikes of VERY similar quality and peformance, its just opinions that seperate them all. :bonk:

B.T.W. In spite of my terrible spelling I have managed to make a great living for myself.point is I work in the trades, and great spelling isnt a big requirment, but it does help.I will work on it for you ,you have inspired me :applause: Thanks

  • Satch0922

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:41 PM


I apologize for going there. It's only motorcycles....green , blue, yellow, orange...it doesn't matter.

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • falshh

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:42 PM


Ok...let me get this straight. A bike that is designed to clear 120ft triples and LaRocco's leap has a head bolt come loose during shipping? That...made me laugh.

Now I think I will go talk to my 10 year old son and 6 year old daughter.....I have to tell them they are "office guys"! LMAO


Im sure the bolt was loose before the ride or defenitly not tightend to correct specs.I guarantee once it was tightened it stayed tight .
Hence NOT A DESIGN FLAW dont blame the manafacturer for one isolated case.
Satch common this isnt rocket science.

B.T.W. Check my spelling Im not sure its all correct.

  • falshh

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:49 PM


falshh: I think I am going to buy an 06 RMZ450 and put an auto clutch in it, revalve the suspension, and add a full Ti exhaust system with the money I'm gonna save over buying the 06YZF.


I cant remember the magazine but it was about 1 or 2 months ago they did a thing on the rmz and they put a full ti setup and had procircuit do the head and they were amazed at the results so I think that is a great idea.

  • falshh

Posted January 02, 2006 - 05:53 PM


I apologize for going there. It's only motorcycles....green , blue, yellow, orange...it doesn't matter.


Thats the spirit Ill give you some respect for the apology , that was nice, and I dont mean to be too harsh sometimes everyone gets so worked up about a subject I get into it also, actually it takes the fun out of it a bit so I apologize also.

  • RAMARION

Posted January 02, 2006 - 07:31 PM


na, na, na, na na.........

Yamaha Rules and everything else DROOLS................. :bonk:



So, which manufacuture will it be, to have the first forfitty below #225 wet w/o gas????????????


Every 450 kicks AZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the bike will not turn anyone into a RC, MC, JS or CR.............

purchase the color you like best, set the bike up to your likings and go Practice if you want to be faster........... :applause:

  • grayracer513

Posted January 03, 2006 - 08:38 AM


I have a few things to point out here. First, you are way off base on the 4 vs. 5 speed question. The only way that a 5 speed would require you to shift more often is if the 5 gears were spaced between the same first and top gears, or if the overall gearing was lowered so that top gear is the same in both configurations. If you look at the ratios, the new YZ450 5 speed is the the same four top ratios as the 426 was, but it has the same 1st gear that the 4 speed had. This makes it an even wider ratio transmission than the 426, and the ratios 1 through 4 are nearly identical to those that were there in the first place. When you gear for a particular track, one of the things you have to consider is whether you can cover the top speed on the fastest section. You can do this with the 4 speed, as I do, but on a circuit with a high terminal speed, you end up with two problems, a tall first gear and wide spaces between all the other gears. The 450 can deal with the big gear spread, but sometimes you're stuck with a gear that's not quite ideal for a given spot. There's another choice, of course, which is to gear it shorter and just haul the clutch in and coast over the end of the fast part. No? Yeah, me either.

But the new 5 speed covers a wider overall spread of gear ratios, and as such, gives you the top speed on such a track as the one I just mentioned without the fat gaps between shifts. As the '06 owners pointed out, they are still using the transmission in the same way they used the 4 speed. On shorter tracks, you have the choice to gear it down to space the gears closer together, or leave it geared taller to keep the gaps big and not have to shift so much. Either way, knocking the '06 YZ450 because it's a 5 speed is totally bogus and reveals the fact that you haven't looked into the situation in any depth. Or it's just an excuse.

Next, please explain how the selection of the plastic decomp bore plug constitutes a design flaw, and then count on one hand the number on YZF's that actually became "toast" as a result of spitting one out. Mine did it, and the oily radiator was the extent of all the damage done. Design flaw? Of what? The plug? I fixed that for $.75.

On the price question, the MSRP of the YZ450F (blue) is the same $6899 that a CRF goes for, and a whopping $100 more than the KXF. If you're looking at someone asking $8599 for a YZ450 (which is what the KXF's MSRP plus $1800 comes out to) and giving even a single serious thought to buying from him, it's your own fault. And yes, it is worth more than the CRF and the KXF and the RMZ because it's better.

The attempt to tag the '06 YZ as a first year bike was a nice try, but it doesn't stick. The only thing different about the oiling system is the location of the dry sump reservoir and the routing of the oil passages through internal drillways rather than external lines. The other changes to the bike, as many as there have been, are refinements rather than wholesale new designs. Only the frame itself and the front fork are completely new items. The KXF, on the other hand, is in fact all new. Honestly, I'm impressed with both the KXF and the RMZ. They look to be fairly well executed first year issues, and I hope they do well. But the choice of a 4 speed in the face of Yamaha's sales experience with one is mystifying, and the fact that Kawasaki could have put a frame all the way into preproduction without finding out it was subject to snapping in two is not inspiring.

The KXF is using last year's technology in the KYB AOSS fork as well, and the suspension has not reviewed very well with credible testers.

And lastly, what purpose is served exactly by your announcement to a group of people that the bike most of them like sucks and you're going to buy something different? It obviously isn't that you want any input from YZF fans on your decision. So, either you are trying to assuage your lack of confidence that you're making the right choice, or you're just trolling. If the KXF just appeals to you for some reason, then fine. I hope it works out for you. But I won't buy into any specious contentions about the supposed flaws of the bike you are rejecting, either. And, I just don't understand how you could have thought that there would be a different result than you came up with here in posting such a thread. No good really ever comes of it.

That's what I think.

  • Open_Class

Posted January 03, 2006 - 08:56 AM


grayracer, that would have been an extremely cogent dissertation if not for the obvious yamaha bias.

Though there are many points to address I will only focus on the following one:

To your point "The KXF is using last year's technology in the KYB AOSS fork as well, and the suspension has not reviewed very well with credible testers."

...Jody with MXA does not constitute a credible tester, However; Greg Albertyn's claim "The Kawasaki handles the best. It is very stable and very plush." would have more weight and credibility.

Oh, and a case,barrel, and head change to accommodate a 5th gear and a completely new oil transfer system is not something you should dismiss as trivial or insignificant. It is after all the OIL DELIVERY SYSTEM, and gears, shift shaft and drum....all crittical.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 03, 2006 - 09:27 AM


To your point "The KXF is using last year's technology in the KYB AOSS fork as well, and the suspension has not reviewed very well with credible testers."

...Jody with MXA does not constitute a credible tester, However; Greg Albertyn's claim "The Kawasaki handles the best. It is very stable and very plush." would have more weight and credibility.

That is your opinion. It is one which I and a number of others do not share. Mr. Albertyn is, in fact, expressing an opinion of his own, and he is entitled to it, but given that I quite often disagree with his opinions, and that it is at odds with others with whom I often do agree, I don't give much credence to it.

Oh, and a case,barrel, and head change to accommodate a 5th gear and a completely new oil transfer system is not something you should dismiss as trivial or insignificant. It is after all the OIL DELIVERY SYSTEM, and gears, shift shaft and drum....all crittical.

The cases were changed to alter the slant of the cylinder, just as they were changed in '03, one for the YZ450, and another for the WR. I expect no more difficulty with this change than with the last two. They've made several cylinders without having an issue with any of them, and the only real change to the head was to the ports and the elimination of the cast area that formerly supported the decompression shaft. Refinements all, not new designs. Of course the trans is critical, but it isn't the first one they ever built for a 450 either, and I doubt that it's really all that "new".

The only thing different about the oiling system is the location of the dry sump reservoir and the routing of the oil passages through internal drillways rather than external lines.

You either didn't read this, or don't believe or understand it, but there isn't that much new in the oiling system, either.

  • Open_Class

Posted January 03, 2006 - 09:56 AM


Oh, you should have said that your riding style and abilities are more in line with Jody's, and not that of a Pingree or Albertyn. That would have explained a few things.

I humbly apologize for any confussion on my part, you should be quite happy with the YZF.

  • grayracer513

Posted January 03, 2006 - 10:15 AM


Having lost the arguement, you now proceed to denegrate the riding style of someone you have never met or seen or know much of anything about. Cool.

I'm certain that the Albertyns and Pingrees of the world are better at what they do well than I am (they had better be) but it is not their riding styles or abilities I find fault with; it's their ability to analyze and evaluate a motorcycle and its behavior, together with the causes and effects.

Which one of us mentioned Jody Weisel, anyway?

  • Open_Class

Posted January 03, 2006 - 10:21 AM


That would have been you that introduced Jody to the thread, as he and MXA are the only ones who have said anything negative about the handling/suspension of the KXF. You then brought it up in you diatribe.

You quote one mag's words and your own strong opinions as gossable, leaving no room for any other possibilities. It was your blind support of the words in MXA that brought this on.

oh, and your refusal to see the points made about the level of changes made to the 06....negates any point about who one any perceived argument. It's called fanaticism, or zealously...and it leaves no room for counter points, which would define an argument.





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