maintenance questions


20 replies to this topic
  • brianj

Posted November 21, 2005 - 07:08 AM

#1

I have an 01 426 and was wondering how often everyone changes their oil and what oil are you using?

  • Ga426owner

Posted November 21, 2005 - 07:36 AM

#2

Brian you are a newby so I will be kind -
There is a search button that is to be used for the most general questions ever asked - which is what you are asking - "what oil to use"
There is a encyclopedia of oil topics for you to sift through.
Oil changes should be every 3 rides -
Yamalube 4stroke oil will get you started - until you decide your flavor :applause:

  • grayracer513

Posted November 21, 2005 - 07:57 AM

#3

I change my oil every ten hours or less (I track that by changing every 3 ride days, each including as much as 3.5 hours of ride time to as little as 1 hour) with a clean filter each time. Only use that long an oil change interval if you use a proven oil, specifically intended to lube engine/transmission combos that has demonstrated its ability to retain its viscosity under such service. Virtually all popular automotive and commercial oils, good as they are, are not up to this, and should be changed every ride.

As for oil, there may actually be a best oil, but nobody here can agree on what it is. In general, synthetics have several advantages over dino oils. Motorcycle specific oils generally (not always) have higher levels of important anti-wear compounds and other advantages. There are several good automotive and commercial grade oils that many TT members have used for a long time with good results though, too.

One issue is compatibility with wet clutches. Oils that carry the JASO MA/MA2 grade have been specifically certified as wet clutch motorcycle engine oils. This does not mean that oils not having this rating won't work; oils intended for the automobile market normally are simply not tested for compliance with the JASO standard. Oils with the API Energy Conserving II have the potential to cause clutch problems, and should be avoided unless you know someone who uses a particular ECII oil successfully.  In fact, it's not likely you would use one of these, as most of them are very light grades such as 5w-30 or lighter, anyway.

Many Commercial ("C") grade oils are better choices than most automotive oils because the oil and its additive package are generally more suited to motorcycles, even though they may not match up exactly to JASO MA. 

Another very important, and often overlooked issue is shear stability. This is the most common failing of automotive oils when used in motorcycles that lube the trans with engine oil. The most commonly used additives that allow multigrade engine oils to hold their viscosity at high temperatures are physically fragile, and the gears in your transmission tend to tear them up so that a 10w-40 turns into a 9w-20, and sometimes surprisingly fast. This is why frequent oil changes are important. Some general guidelines are that synthetic are usually better in this regard than mineral oils, and oils with a narrower viscosity range have fewer such additives, and so are less susceptible to viscosity sheardown due to their destruction. That means that a 15w-40 would generally be tougher than a 5w-40, for example. You should also be aware that there are Viscosity Index Improvers which are capable of holding up much better, and these are used in blending multi-grade gear oils. Some of the better JASO MA motorcycle oils are using these in place of the VII's used in common engine oils to further resist shear down.

 

Some of the more popular and higher quality "bargain" oils have been improved within the last few years to address the shear problem, and will now stay in grade when used in a motorcycle much better than they did previously.  According to recently posted used oil analyses from users, Rotella (syn and petro) have both improved quite a bit. 


Some known good ones are:
Amsoil Synthetic Motorcycle Oil (Product ID MCF or MCV)
Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10w-40 & V-Twin 20w-50
Golden Spectro 4 synthetic blend
Maxima Maxum 4



There are others, too.


Edited by grayracer513, March 25, 2014 - 08:37 AM.
update


  • brianj

Posted November 21, 2005 - 10:12 AM

#4

thank you grayracer that is just what I was looking for.

  • sirthumpalot

Posted November 21, 2005 - 04:41 PM

#5

Any name brand motorcycle oil that meets the specs in the manual should do you just fine. There are plenty to choose from. I'm in S. FL and when it's really dusty out I'll change the oil every other ride day, if it's wet out (less dust) I might let it go 3 rides. Have fun!

  • darksun27

Posted November 21, 2005 - 08:33 PM

#6

i have been using pennsoil 10w 40 and for me after 2 rides or less its completely gone (worn out). my dad is frequently poed at me and says i change oil to much and i know from ppl on here i change it way to little (probably every 7 rides or whenever the motor is apart). neways what im asking is he has a ton on plain 40 weight Cub Cadet Lawnmower oil and is wanting me to use it. it has no energy conserving additives and says is made for long valve life, engine life etc and that it is made for any heavy duty 4 stroke applications. and has a low ash count :applause: ? i added it saturday i think just to try it and i have rode probably 10 hours or so since then on a track and so far it shows no signs or breakdown, blackness, thinning or any form of clutch slippage. so do you think i should still use it? or is this a compltely bad idea?

  • Reyndogg

Posted November 21, 2005 - 08:43 PM

#7

i cant imagine putting 10hrs on my bike with no oil change!

  • sirthumpalot

Posted November 22, 2005 - 03:54 AM

#8

Use what the manual recommends. Strait 40 is pretty darn thick when cold, I personally woudln't use that... and I live in S. FL.

  • Goosedog

Posted November 22, 2005 - 04:40 AM

#9

thank you grayracer that is just what I was looking for.


You made it too easy for the kid, how's he ever gonna learn? :applause:

  • Fizz

Posted November 22, 2005 - 05:16 AM

#10

i use Castrol GPS, mostly because my Yamaha dealer recommended it ....
http://www.castrol.c...ntentId=6008623

any opinions on that choice?

Visit the ThumperTalk Store for the lowest prices on motorcycle / ATV parts and accessories - Guaranteed
  • Ga426owner

Posted November 22, 2005 - 07:05 AM

#11

You made it too easy for the kid, how's he ever gonna learn? :ride:



Amen GooseDog............. :applause:

  • MichiganMXer

Posted November 22, 2005 - 08:08 AM

#12

Change your oil every 3 rides or if the air filter gets really dirty after one ride.

You dont have to change the oil filter every time. Just a quick dump of the bad and 1.5 L of the new.

It'll save your bike.

  • odlaw19

Posted November 22, 2005 - 05:24 PM

#13

I used the Castrol GPS. Reasonably priced. No troubles.


Waldo.
YZ426

  • ryaninetyone

Posted May 14, 2006 - 09:44 PM

#14

amsoil 20w50 in the summer and 10w40 in the winter. I like to change every 2 or 3 rides(approx. 5 eng. hours)

  • bigred455

Posted July 24, 2008 - 06:50 PM

#15

Anything over 4 hrs on a motor that holds a qrt of oil for the motor and tranny,should be dropped. The manual is very over zealous on when to service,valves,cams, top ends,bottom ends,clutches etc,but there recommendation for oil changes are too long. Good rider going 8 hrs on a oil change,eventually it will show. GOOD LUCK. Synthetics today are not true synthetics,there are only a few true ones,most of them the base is petroleum stock. I have seen HTHS numbers on some petroleum oils that would put most MC specific oils and synthetic oils to shame. Oil that sheared down from a 40wt to a 30wt in a hr in a MX motor the oil being a popular synthetic. MX motors are so much more demanding than a automobile,so just because you are using a synthetic you think it is wise to go 8hrs before a oil change you are fooling yourself. Most MC oils are all marketing 8 dollars for a qrt and the oil is sub-par or average, Maxima not included,the numbers on Maxima show BIG TIME very awesome package going on there. No I do not use this oil I am trying to be fair, I use a particular 15/40 wt petroleum. The basic idea is, what ever oil you choose,choose wise and frequent changes

  • grayracer513

Posted July 24, 2008 - 07:53 PM

#16

As I said, I change out my Amsoil MCF every 3 rides, or just before heading out for a multi-day event. This might be as little as 3 hours or less, or as much as 6, all the way up to 9. This is what I did with the '03 that I had for nearly 4 years and had over 350 trouble free hours on it. Last I knew, that bike is still running.

Here again, the engine is not the issue, it's the gearbox. High RPM engines running at extreme RPM is tougher on oil than a Buick 8, but that is not what tears up most of the good oils.

The polymers used in most engine oils that give multi grade oils the ability to behave as heavier grades when they're hot are physically too fragile to use in a gear lube, but a few very high grade MC oils have recognized this and begun using viscosity index improvers created for gear lubes. Mobil 1 Racing 4T and V-Twin are two of them, Amsoil MCF and MCV, which I use are two more. The Amsoil, in fact, is the only engine oil I'm aware of that is also graded API GL-1.

I have used oil analysis from both my bikes showing samples of MCF still in grade at 8 and 10 hours. I don't normally run it that long, but I could.

BTW, even though there are a number of oils that take some severe liberties with the term "synthetic", there are a lot of true, full synthetic oils out there, and both Mobil 1 and Amsoil are 100% synthetic poly-alpha olefin base stocks.

  • ReedRulz

Posted July 24, 2009 - 06:13 PM

#17

I change my oil every ten hours or less (I track that by changing every 3 ride days, each including as much as 3.5 hours of ride time to as little as 1 hour) with a clean filter each time. Only use that long an oil change interval if you use a proven oil, specifically intended to lube engine/transmission combos that has demonstrated it ability to retain its viscosity under such service. Popular automotive oils, good as they are, are not up to this, and should be changed every ride.

As for oil, there may actually be a best oil, but nobody here can agree on what it is. In general, synthetics have several advantages over dino oils. Motorcycle specific oils generally (not always) have higher levels of important anti-wear compounds and other advantages. There are several good automotive and commercial grade oils that many TT members have used for a long time with good results though, too.

One issue is compatibility with wet clutches. Oils that carry the JASO MA/MA2 grade have been specifically certified as wet clutch motorcycle engine oils. This does not mean that oils not having this rating won't work; oils intended for the automobile market normally are simply not tested for compliance with the JASO standard. Oils with the API Energy Conserving II have the potential to cause clutch problems, and should be avoided unless you know someone who uses a particular ECII oil successfully.

Many Commercial ("C") grade oils are better choices than most automotive oils because the oil and its additive package are generally more suited to motorcycles, even though they may not match up exactly to JASO MA.

Another very important, and often overlooked issue is shear stability. The most commonly used additives that allow multigrade engine oils to hold their viscosity at high temperatures are physically fragile, and the gears in your transmission tend to tear them up so that a 10w-40 turns into a 9w-20, and sometimes surprisingly fast. This is why frequent oil changes are important. Some general guidelines are that synthetic are usually better in this regard than mineral oils, and oils with a narrower viscosity range have fewer such additives, and so are less susceptible to viscosity sheardown due to their destruction. That means that a 15w-40 would generally be tougher than a 5w-40, for example. You should also be aware that there are Viscosity Index Improvers which are capable of holding up much better, and these are used in blending multi-grade gear oils. Some of the better JASO MA motorcycle oils are using these in place of the VII's used in common engine oils to further resist shear down.

Some known good ones are:
Amsoil Synthetic Motorcycle Oil (Product ID MCF or MCV)
Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10w-40 & V-Twin 20w-50
Golden Spectro 4 synthetic blend
Maxima Maxum 4



There are others, too.


Hey Grayracer Ive been using Amsoil MCF but I still change my oil and clean the filter after every ride usually 2 hours or less my question is do you think the Amsoil has any advantage over the Rotella Even if im changing it every ride.

  • grayracer513

Posted July 24, 2009 - 08:05 PM

#18

Hey Grayracer Ive been using Amsoil MCF but I still change my oil and clean the filter after every ride usually 2 hours or less my question is do you think the Amsoil has any advantage over the Rotella Even if im changing it every ride.

Yes, although in some respects it would be splitting hairs.

I have no idea why you would change out your oil at that interval when you are using such a high grade product. Are you an A level racer just looking for extra insurance?

  • ReedRulz

Posted July 24, 2009 - 08:18 PM

#19

Yes, although in some respects it would be splitting hairs.

I have no idea why you would change out your oil at that interval when you are using such a high grade product. Are you an A level racer just looking for extra insurance?


No its not that I just had my motor rebuilt about 10 hours ride time ago and im still finding very small particles of metal in the oil filter. I just figured if I cleaned the filter after every ride it would be less chance of contamination in the oil and less chance of metal particles getting through the oil filter, am I being overly cautious?

  • grayracer513

Posted July 24, 2009 - 08:33 PM

#20

There will never be a time when you do not find particles of metal in the oil filter. Most of these will resemble slivers, and probably 60% will not be steel (use a magnet). The bulk come from the clutch and the transmission gears, and at some level, it's normal.

If you had a steel framed bike in which the separate tank in frame could be suspected of harboring debris from the previous failure, then there would be a good argument for using a budget oil and frequent changes until the level of contamination goes down. However, in an '07, the entire oiling system is contained within the engine assembly, and so would have been thoroughly cleaned out (or so one would hope) during the rebuild, meaning what you are seeing is "new stuff".

If you are worried, show your filter to a trusted mechanic and see what he thinks.





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