Suspension Questions.


20 replies to this topic
  • Punisher660

Posted October 27, 2005 - 05:37 PM

#1

I am looking at getting my suspension done, and I am curious what other people who have had theirs done, paid for it?

I ride my bike on single track, trails, desert, motocross, sand dunes, and tight supercross style tracks

I am being quoted $680 for new springs (front and rear) ,re-valve, air-cels (I guess they are equivilant to an Enzo setup) new seals, having the sag set, and not having to take anything off of the bike. (Some places prefered you take the forks and shocks in after removing them from the bike.

1. Is this a good price
2. If you had your suspension done, how would you rate the difference of the ride afterward?
3. Has anyone else used air-cels or Enzoes, and how well do they work? Are they worth it?
:banghead:

  • dbailey223

Posted October 27, 2005 - 06:15 PM

#2

Are you going to a suspension specialist outfit? I have not touched my suspension, but I probably need to.

  • MathProf

Posted October 28, 2005 - 04:40 AM

#3

I changed the springs to the RaceTech recommended rates; .46 front:5.2 rear and thats it. Raise the forks 5 to 10mm above the triple clamps and ride it.

No re-valve. Spend the money on new tires, a Scott Stabilizer, and Flexx Bars.

Set your sag with the compression and rebound setting on minimum, then adjust them after sag is set.

I win Overall A in hare scrambles events here in Colorado that are technical events: wet roots, wet rocks, tight woods and the bikes works great. Seldom bottoms and stays on the ground.

IMHO people spend money in wrong places. Spend your extra money on gas to ride your bike and parts to keep it in good shape.

  • ncmountainman

Posted October 28, 2005 - 05:45 AM

#4

I changed the springs to the RaceTech recommended rates; .46 front:5.2 rear and thats it. Raise the forks 5 to 10mm above the triple clamps and ride it.

No re-valve. Spend the money on new tires, a Scott Stabilizer, and Flexx Bars.

Set your sag with the compression and rebound setting on minimum, then adjust them after sag is set.

I win Overall A in hare scrambles events here in Colorado that are technical events: wet roots, wet rocks, tight woods and the bikes works great. Seldom bottoms and stays on the ground.

IMHO people spend money in wrong places. Spend your extra money on gas to ride your bike and parts to keep it in good shape.

stock the 04 wr forks were horrible at best(harsh on the stutter, a midvalve problem, and when they did bottom they BOTTOMED),just think how fast you'd be after having them done :banghead: as far as the ? goes $680 for everything is a very good deal as long as the people have a good rep :banghead:

  • MathProf

Posted October 28, 2005 - 06:23 AM

#5

Well, maybe at sea level they were bad.

Mine took a long time to break in, but after a couple oil changes, they worked for me.

  • BigIvyI

Posted October 28, 2005 - 06:57 AM

#6

MathProf, where do you teach? After being an actuary for awhile, I'm back in grad school now. I take qualifiers this fall. Hope to be a college prof, or at least teach at a community college if I wind up with a masters degree.

  • MathProf

Posted October 28, 2005 - 07:54 AM

#7

I teach at both the high school and college level.

I spent 2 years teaching mostly evening Calc 1 & 2 at Colorado Technical University and started doing some summer work at UCCS.

I'm also the head of the Math Department in a Colorado Springs High School.

There isn't much difference between college students and high school students.
Even the adults come up with lame excuses for late homework.

:banghead:

  • Punisher660

Posted October 28, 2005 - 08:01 AM

#8

stock the 04 wr forks were horrible at best(harsh on the stutter, a midvalve problem, and when they did bottom they BOTTOMED),just think how fast you'd be after having them done :banghead: as far as the ? goes $680 for everything is a very good deal as long as the people have a good rep :banghead:



What what I gather they are pretty reputable - they are called PRS (proracingsuspension.com) Unfortunately I'm a big enough guy that I have to have it done, so spending the money on other mods is not going to be a solution for me. I wonder if I just changed the springs, if I would get the same results. Does the valving make that big of a difference?

Any comments on the air-cels? I have never used them, seen them on a bike or in action. Does anyone have any experiance with them?

  • ncmountainman

Posted October 28, 2005 - 08:11 AM

#9

What what I gather they are pretty reputable - they are called PRS (proracingsuspension.com) Unfortunately I'm a big enough guy that I have to have it done, so spending the money on other mods is not going to be a solution for me. I wonder if I just changed the springs, if I would get the same results. Does the valving make that big of a difference?

Any comments on the air-cels? I have never used them, seen them on a bike or in action. Does anyone have any experiance with them?

i'm 6'4" around 290lbs,i had to run yz valving with .52's f/ 6.4 r on my wr to keep any speed(the wr valving is just too soft) judging from mathprofs springs he's around 150-160lbs, stock might work for stick people but us heavyweights need all the help we can get! as far as subtanks the difference is night and day with my tootech's,they allow a higher oil level to help with high speed bottoming while keeping it plush at the same time,i don't know about the ones you mention but the tootech's are also adjustable for conditions, go for it :banghead:

  • MathProf

Posted October 28, 2005 - 08:27 AM

#10

I'm around 170 but I must ride light. :banghead:

I am in my 2nd year of offroad racing after many years of riding observed trials.

It may be that our weight and riding background effect what we like our bikes to feel like.

I view these threads as "express your opinion" and let people decide what works for them. I am certainly not an expert tuner. The reason I started to race offroad was to start as a novice and see what there was to learn. I have found out that there is quite a bit to learn.

However, at times, it does remind me of a Philosophy class: all questions and few answers. :banghead:

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  • ncmountainman

Posted October 28, 2005 - 08:44 AM

#11

forgive me if i'm wrong but wasn't .47/5.6 stock for the 04 wr450? which was set up for a 170lb rider? you obviously know how to ride there math,i'm a B class HS rider,but i'm failing to see how that set up could work at race speed :banghead: but than again its hard for me to imagine being 170lbs either(maybe when i was 12!) :banghead: i've also read that racetech's spring chart was only set up for use with their valving?

  • MathProf

Posted October 28, 2005 - 09:01 AM

#12

If I remember right,my manual and RaceTech both called the 04 rear spring 5.0 and the front .47

The rear was clearly soft on the first ride. RaceTech said that Yamaha springs vary in stiffness by, if I remember right, 5%. I figured the rear needed to be changed, and I just blindly followed the RaceTech spring rate rec's.

Since I was a novice tuner, I just went with what they said. It definitely made the bike more stable and predictable once the compression and rebound get set right.

It doesn't bottom often and the results say I'm riding fast so I figure it's right.

  • Punisher660

Posted October 28, 2005 - 09:09 AM

#13

forgive me if i'm wrong but wasn't .47/5.6 stock for the 04 wr450? which was set up for a 170lb rider? you obviously know how to ride there math,i'm a B class HS rider,but i'm failing to see how that set up could work at race speed :banghead: but than again its hard for me to imagine being 170lbs either(maybe when i was 12!) :banghead: i've also read that racetech's spring chart was only set up for use with their valving?


I think you are right on the money - I was 12-13 the last time I saw 170. It looks like you are dang close measurements too. It sounds like this setup should work well then. I have to admit, I'm not hard on my machines, but I think riding style makes a difference. I am very aggressive offroad and on the track. Add the size factor, and I think I am a little more than the stock suspension was meant for. Although the ideal solution is to get back down to 170, I think its more realistic to change the suspension.

Thanks for the reply, good to hear something positive before dropping that kind of $$$ on upgrades.

  • vmxr

Posted October 28, 2005 - 09:26 AM

#14

I'll have to agree with the MathProf on this one. I weigh 195 and went .46s and a 5.4 and took the time to careful dial in the clickers. My 03 450 works extremely well now, both on Rocky Mountain single track and in the open desert. I'm no trials rider (though I would like to give it a try) and I'm certainly not an A rider.

That said, somebody the size of ncmountainman probably needs springs and a revalve as he is well outside the suspension tuning range listed in the service manual.

  • ncmountainman

Posted October 28, 2005 - 10:04 AM

#15

the japanese have no consideration for us mtn men :banghead: its all fixable though. so what was the stock rear on the wr450?

  • vmxr

Posted October 28, 2005 - 10:14 AM

#16

NC, I'm at work and don't have the manual on hand but I believe Yamaha had the rear listed as a 5.1 for the 03 year model. FWIW, the upgraded springs I used were all from Yamaha.

  • ncmountainman

Posted October 28, 2005 - 10:31 AM

#17

hmm,i could've swore it was 5.4 0r 5.6 for my 04 wr450,but you know how the alzheimers thing is. i really do have to stop drinking my beer from cans :banghead:

  • Punisher660

Posted October 28, 2005 - 10:41 AM

#18

Well, I'll keep you updated. I have an appointment to drop the bike off on Mon, and I am taking it to 10 mile wash (Near Green Rivier, UT) the following weekend. This should be an excelent test since the terrain has sand dunes, slick-rock, tight trails, lots of rocks and stumps, water crossings, technical climbing, and long, wideopen strips. I'll try to find a launch pad for big-air tests if I can and give you a full report. :banghead:

  • SoCAL ELITE

Posted October 28, 2005 - 10:42 AM

#19

$680 seems about right...I just had my CRF450 done with Race-Tech suspension, installed by precision concepts. I would recommend re-valving, It does make a big difference, and most important if you are a bigger rider. A dirtbike is all about the suspension. I too ride in the dunes a lot, and with both your springs, and re-valve you will be able to adjust it just right for your track time as well. Good Luck.

  • MathProf

Posted October 28, 2005 - 11:35 AM

#20

I understand that there are 2 suspension ideas:
stiffer spring rates with less control by the shock
or
softer springs that use the shock more to control the wheel.

They both probably will work in the right hands. :banghead:




 
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