fuel injection


15 replies to this topic
  • malibuskier

Posted October 17, 2005 - 01:11 PM

#1

Will we ever see a fuel injected BRP?

  • irondude

Posted October 17, 2005 - 01:18 PM

#2

heres what i see in the crystal ball:

1) Husqvarna starts a revolution by making all their bikes dual sports.
(this is happening right now)
2) Honda comes out with a CRF600X in 2007.
3) Honda comes out with a dual sport 600 and a motard 600 in 2009.

In order for the 2009 new dual sport bikes to pass emissions they have a fuel injection system--like the one Honda invented for Montessa last spring.

Pure guess work. I dont have any info other than an active imagination.

  • Shawn_Mc

Posted October 17, 2005 - 02:06 PM

#3

Id bet Honda simply rebadges the current XR650 to a CRFX. But fuel injection I think is closer than a lot of people think.

I dont think Honda will come out with a SuperMotard. The KTM duke didnt do much in the show room. SuperMoto will have to get a lot bigger in the US for that to happen I believe...

What surprises me is that Honda doesnt offer a Super Motard setup as an option to the current line up. 320mm front brake, 17's, a short set of forks and shock and a couple other goodies...seems like a lost market to me....

  • zackm58941

Posted October 17, 2005 - 02:37 PM

#4

god I hope to this that happen sometime soon!!! I really cant stand carboraters anymore... Even though its a little bit more complex, I'll take it any day over ancient technology (which there nothing wrong with if you like it). Ive seen some kits or wr450's and i think crf450's that convert to fuel injection, there about $2,500!

  • qadsan

Posted October 17, 2005 - 02:59 PM

#5

California has plans to start smog testing motorcycles in April of 2007, unless of course that date gets pushed out. I'm sure the bike manufacturers are all aware of this and the more stringent upcoming standards that they'll have to meet. Fuel injection is inevitable and just a few years away IMHO.

  • jim1234

Posted October 17, 2005 - 03:00 PM

#6

One of the things I liked about my cannondale was the f/i. I liked checking the engine and setting the power curve with the laptop.

  • Thumpmeister

Posted October 17, 2005 - 11:59 PM

#7

It was in this monthes Dirtbike magazine that they had a bit of a special on that. Montesa has a contract w/ Honda, and they mad a 250 thumper trials bike, but the kicker was is that it was a FI 250 Honda, not a XR, not a CRF, but a completely differant engine. Its the Montesa Cota 4RT.
The kicker about the engine is just that; its a kick start, not e-button, FI engine. It takes the best from both the XR 250 and the CRF 250. Its an SOHC, but not unicam motor, as well as water cooled. It has a 28 mm throttle body added onto it as well. Sounds like the power delivery it right between the XR and CRF as well.
Goes to show that Honda already has FI on the way, just not on their mainstream thumpers. Can't wait to see what happens in the next year or two.

  • Shawn_Mc

Posted October 18, 2005 - 08:33 AM

#8

It was in this monthes Dirtbike magazine that they had a bit of a special on that. Montesa has a contract w/ Honda, and they mad a 250 thumper trials bike, but the kicker was is that it was a FI 250 Honda, not a XR, not a CRF, but a completely differant engine. Its the Montesa Cota 4RT.
The kicker about the engine is just that; its a kick start, not e-button, FI engine. It takes the best from both the XR 250 and the CRF 250. Its an SOHC, but not unicam motor, as well as water cooled. It has a 28 mm throttle body added onto it as well. Sounds like the power delivery it right between the XR and CRF as well.
Goes to show that Honda already has FI on the way, just not on their mainstream thumpers. Can't wait to see what happens in the next year or two.



A 250cc fourstroke with a 28mm inlet wont make more than about 15-maybe 20 max horsepower. Its a trials engine. It makes buttloads off torque from 1800 to maybe 4000 RPM and then it'll sign off like you hit the kill button. There's almost nothing in common with that engine and one in an XR or CRF. An air cooled XR has more in common with the CRF than it does the trials motor.

That said, Honda isnt a stranger to FI by any stretch. It's simply a matter of time. Id bet the XL model will get it first for some reason. They did that with the 600cc RFVC motor. The XL got the 600 in 83' and the XR didnt get it until 85'. And most of the parts interchange too... Why? Your guess is as good as mine.

Using the Cannondale as a model for FI is kinda like pointing to Stalin or Pol Pot as model leaders...there are much better to be had... :banghead:

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  • wr450fyamaha

Posted October 18, 2005 - 09:10 AM

#9

I must say, anything is possable.....one day, long long ago, people thought it insanity to put liquid cooling on a 2 wheel machine.

  • rzm

Posted October 18, 2005 - 12:54 PM

#10

Yamaha has a fuel injected 700cc single in the new Raptor atv. Maybe it could be modified for the BRP.....or maybe Yamaha will be the first out with a big bore FI thumper....hmmm......TTR700FI??????

  • malevolent73

Posted October 22, 2005 - 09:51 PM

#11

FI would be great for reliability, cold starting, and fuel economy... but what would we all do w/o the Pump? no more WHACK! no more dial a wheelie! I don't know if I can live w/o it ... :banghead:

  • toolazyforpushbikes

Posted October 22, 2005 - 10:29 PM

#12

FI would be great for reliability, cold starting, and fuel economy... but what would we all do w/o the Pump? no more WHACK! no more dial a wheelie! I don't know if I can live w/o it ... :banghead:



A FI motor will have much more throttle response than any pumper carb bike. Wheelie away! :banghead:

  • huntmaster

Posted October 23, 2005 - 05:15 AM

#13

Will we ever see a fuel injected BRP?

It's a matter of time before we see fuel infection on just about everything that is street legal, and perhaps even off-road competition. More for reasons of emissions then any major performance advantage, but with additional cost and complexity too. It takes a lot of sorting to get it right and I would never buy the first generation of an injected model. BMW and Ducati needed time to sort their injected bikes 20 years ago and the Japanese are going through the same thing these last few years with the latest Gixxers, R1's etc.

Fuel injection and "dirt" riding adds some additional demands, but the ground work has been done at small volume manufacturers so far, and like street bikes will work it's way to the masses once it's felt absolutely necessary to incur the additional cost. Good working carburetors are still hard to beat.

  • malevolent73

Posted October 23, 2005 - 08:59 AM

#14

I hope your right about that toolazy!

  • malevolent73

Posted October 23, 2005 - 09:02 AM

#15

It's a matter of time before we see fuel infection on just about everything that is street legal, and perhaps even off-road competition. More for reasons of emissions then any major performance advantage, but with additional cost and complexity too. It takes a lot of sorting to get it right and I would never buy the first generation of an injected model. BMW and Ducati needed time to sort their injected bikes 20 years ago and the Japanese are going through the same thing these last few years with the latest Gixxers, R1's etc.

Fuel injection and "dirt" riding adds some additional demands, but the ground work has been done at small volume manufacturers so far, and like street bikes will work it's way to the masses once it's felt absolutely necessary to incur the additional cost. Good working carburetors are still hard to beat.




I like what he said... good working carbs are still hard to beat!!!

  • qadsan

Posted October 23, 2005 - 09:21 AM

#16

FI would be great for reliability, cold starting, and fuel economy... but what would we all do w/o the Pump? no more WHACK! no more dial a wheelie! I don't know if I can live w/o it ... :banghead:


Fuel injection has the pump built into the software, which is one of the reasons why there is crisp off idle throttle response when you mash the pedal on your car. In fact, if you were to look at the source code for some ECM's, you may see a section commented as 'accelerator pump' and you'll see its function taken into account via code. The beauty of this is that with the right tools, you'll be able to custom tune your pump in addition to other parts of the curve as it relates to ignition, timing, throttle position, etc, but these tools will only be available as aftermarket or self developed.





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