Installed Edelbrock carb in my 650R, not sure I like it...


40 replies to this topic
  • 4Takt

Posted October 03, 2005 - 08:28 AM

#21

Are you sure the problem isn't with your bike? Is your idle speed turned up enough. Have you checked your valve clearances, particularly your intakes which have a tendancy to tighten up with time? Are both of the airbox restrictors removed from your bike? Are you definitely running the non-EPA manifold or a stock one that's had the restrictor plate cut out?


Idle speed seems fine.
Valves were checked a week before I put the Edelbrock on, I'll check again.
Airbox restrictors are gone.
Intake manifold is the wide open HRC part.
Exhaust is stock, drilled out tip.
Yesterday I ran the bike for a couple of minutes without side panel and no filter, just to see if it wasn't getting enough air. Made no difference.

Man, the way you guys describe this carb working on your bikes makes me want to cry :banghead: . That's what I wanted when I shelled out the dough for this thing :banghead: .

Should I try the other two needles that came with the kit?

Also, I left the needle adjuster in for the time being and didn't put the screw plug back in since I was messing with it so much. Just dawned on me that that might not be good. Could it be causing the problem? I don't see how, you need to have it on the carb to dial it in.

4Takt

  • malevolent73

Posted October 03, 2005 - 09:02 AM

#22

I'm sorry to hear about all the trouble you are having with your Edelbrock... I just put one on a couple of months ago, with no problems. But this may help you out, read the supplemental instructions for the XR650R, it gives the specs that the carb is "supposedly" set at from the factory for an xr... My carb was not set the way the instructions said it was! with the needle that came in the carb, I was able to adjust all the decel popping out, and never touched the pump at all, and I could whack it with no problem... no hesitation! But I was at the high end of the adjustment, there are approx. 32 clicks I was at 25. you want to be right around the middle. so I changed the needle to the 21, or what ever the biggest one is, and gave the pump maybe 1/2 to 3/4 of a turn, and I can whack the gas at idle w/ no load... 0 hesitation, and while riding if you whack it you should really be holding on pretty good.... now that I have changed the needle I think I'm right at 16 clicks, which is where you want to be.... I would try this, and I hope it helps you out... good luck

  • qadsan

Posted October 03, 2005 - 09:19 AM

#23

No, you can leave the adjuster in all the time. You're doing the right kinds of things by taking off the side panel to see if that makes a difference and I hope something clicks here where you can get your bike running the way it should be running. From reading some of your past threads, you were having stalling problems with the stock carb, which is why I'm wondering if there's no something funky with the bike. You can try the other two needles, but I have my doubts that the needle will change your issue much unless the stock needle is damaged or has a defect.

Is your engine fully warmed up when you're noticing this problem? I'm guessing it is, but a cold engine is more prone to stalling than an angine that's fully warmed up, especially during large throttle transitions.

Another thing to try is to check your spark plug and change it if you have a spare, then test again. This probably won't resolve your issue, but its simple and quick to do and will rule that out as being a possibility. While the spark plug is out, you can test it outside the engine to see if you've got a healthy spark. The spark should be prominent and blue in color. If it looks weak and has a yellowish color, then perhaps your spark is too weak due to a short in the wiring harness or ???

The only thing left that has the largest probability in my mind, assuming the carb, its tuning and engine are fine is the fuel. If your fuel is old or has water or other chemicals in it, then your bike may be more prone to stalling, especially during quick throttle transitions. This could explain why your bike had issues with both the stock carb and the Edelbrock. Since water is heavier than fuel, I would put the petcock in the reserve position (lowest drain point) and drain some fuel into a dish so you can visually examin it for seperation. If you see a seperation due to water & fuel, then there's your problem. If not, I'd still drain the tank completely and use that fuel for something else and put in the highest octane pump fuel you have from your most trusted station and see if that helps.

I sure this gets figured out soon cause I'm sure you're frustrated. I know I'd be dissapointed based the the descriptions I've read on how your bike runs. Hopefully it turns out to be something super easy like a fuel issue.

  • 4Takt

Posted October 03, 2005 - 10:04 AM

#24

Thanks for all your help.

My issues with the stock carb were a bit different. It wouldn't bog when I whacked the throttle, it would just stall randomly at idle, unless I had the idle quite high. This was when the bike was brand new, and it did get somewhat better after some break in time. Once I had the stock carb dialed in and jetted right, it was running well.

That said, I can set the idle significantly lower with the Edelbrock, and it never stalls just idling. I'm not sure the two issues are related.

I know I have no water in my fuel, I regularly switch between two different tanks, and the issue is there even after I freshly fill a dry tank.

I'll call Edelbrock again, at this point I suspect there might be something wrong with the carb. Maybe I can get it exchanged.

I'll check the spark and valve clearance again, too.

All I want is for this pig to run well enough to keep up with the fun factor of my Maico MC490, which at 22 years old beats the crap out of this modern engineering marvel in torque, power, and speed while being significantly less complex than your average lawn mower. :banghead:

Thanks again,
4Takt

  • dorkpunch

Posted October 03, 2005 - 10:07 AM

#25

not sure if this is of any help as i have neither (yet) of these bikes, but the ktm duke i belive comes with the quicksilver carb and from what i have read a lot of them have given duke owners fits to the point they switch to some other carb..... might try the duke guys for info on the carbs....

  • qadsan

Posted October 03, 2005 - 11:09 AM

#26

The KTM fiasco is a totally different situation and that carb was short lived. It hasn't been used or made in a good while. KTM chartered Edelbrock to make carbs to their specs back in the 90's and Edelbrock advised against their recommendations, but KTM was the customer and Edelbrock produced a carb to their specs because they were forced to by contract and it turned out to be a disaster. Since then, Edelbrock decided it was best to make the carb the way they intended it to be made because making it to KTM's specs gave them and everyone a black eye. It's not even the same carb as it was back then! If you search these and other forums, you'll find hundreds of very happy Edelbrock owners.

  • Kaleb

Posted October 10, 2005 - 12:10 PM

#27

Do you have any problem with your midrange "missing". I can get my bike to run great at around 1000 - 1500 rpm steady but when I throttle up to midrange it feels like the fuel is cutting out in spurts. It gets worse when I turn the top adjustment richer and also leaner. The farther away from the correct setting in either direction makes it miss more.

  • irondude

Posted October 10, 2005 - 12:50 PM

#28

im telling ya - spend some time adjusting the pumper.
theres three adjustments on the edelbrock
Needle taper
Needle height
Pump duration.

Usually they come to the factory just fine. All of mine and the many guys i ride with who have the edelbrock have never had an issue-bolt up fine just from the factory.

obviously this situation is different. either something on the bike or the carb is off.

assuming its the carb-please adjust the pump correctly...if only so i dont respond here anymore!

If it truly is adjusted correctly--and if the little brass dowel is not upside down...then its time to send it back to edelbrock. you will find they have GREAT customer service.

  • J_T

Posted October 10, 2005 - 04:19 PM

#29

4Takt, When I bought the Edelbrock QS I was advised to use the carb as set up out of the box but I didn't and it ran like you were describing. Once I put it like described below it ran great (and should for yours as well and you can do minor adjustments afterwards for fine tuning but this should get you the results you heard) If it doesn't help then it isn't the carb...

below the post by Robbarnum from
http://www.thumperta...032#post1027032


Hey DWD.
I would be glad to give you info about your carb or anything ells that you may need help with. I will try and make a fast suggestion to you right now .
First thing that you should do is check and see where you are with the click settings.All settings are done from full rich "that would be all the way to the right" Then count counter clockwise you should be around 12 to 14 clicks out to start.
The second thing that you should do is set the pump screw 2 1/2 turns out from full in. Too much pump and the bike will bog not enough and it will do the same but when you have to much pump the bike will not have good bottom to mid power and feel slow. If you do not have the side panel open you will not recive the most out of the carb it needs air flow. This is a mod that I strongly recomend to you.
If I was you I would lean the carb clicker untill it felt good up stairs if you have to be out on the clicks say around 25 then you will need to go to the next leaner needle and then have a richer setting. The same goes for the other way if you richen it and it runs better up stairs then go to the next richer needle. This is a fast way to check out what the motor wants. This is the same for any carb not just Edelbrock carbs. Buy the way the carb should come with a 19 or a 17E it depends when you perchased the carb. If you need more help please feel free to call or email me Thanks Rob. Hey DWD.



  • atreiou

Posted October 11, 2005 - 02:27 AM

#30

little question for all the QS users...
I hope you can understand... :banghead:

bike: XR 650R
needle: #19
stopping popping@: about 9 clicks from full rich (9 clicks to left)
pipe: Youshimura RS3 Pipe with larger stainless steel headers

question: do you think that the #19 needle is enough or must I pass to the #21 ?

the dyno test (with a temperature gauge in the exhaust)tell me that I'm lean...

or the #21 needle is only for heavier modifications ?

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  • 4Takt

Posted October 11, 2005 - 07:41 AM

#31

Thanks for all the info, that helps a lot. I've been counting from full lean, not full rich, maybe I was looking in the wrong range.

I finally have the carb set up by trial and error so it won't bog off idle, but the settings are weird. 19 clicks from full lean, and pumper just 1/4 turn out from full pump. Any less pump and it will bog.
However, I do experience exactly the symptoms of too much pump robbarnum describes, weak bottom and especially midrange.

I don't know where to go from here, this is more headache than it's worth.
I've been screwing with this thing for weeks now, instead of having fun riding. I think I'll put the stock carb back on and call it a day.

4Takt

  • irondude

Posted October 11, 2005 - 08:10 AM

#32

At this point I dont think the problem is the carb or the bike. :banghead:

  • ponq

Posted October 11, 2005 - 08:38 AM

#33

Rather than read the thread, I must ask, have we determined that you have the correct needle?

  • malevolent73

Posted October 11, 2005 - 08:44 AM

#34

ya! put the #21 in there... that should do it if you have an aftermarket exhaust :banghead:

  • ponq

Posted October 11, 2005 - 08:57 AM

#35

I'm happy with my 19e, once I determined for some reason my bike came with a 17e. Go figure.

  • 4Takt

Posted October 11, 2005 - 09:13 AM

#36

At this point I dont think the problem is the carb or the bike. :banghead:



Yes, I'm too stupid for this carburetor. Sorry about that. Would you like to buy it?

4Takt

  • J_T

Posted October 11, 2005 - 01:56 PM

#37

I do experience exactly the symptoms of too much pump robbarnum describes, weak bottom and especially midrange.



You get similar effects of too little pump. Did you try it at 2 1/2 turns CCW from full in (don't screw it in too tight!!)? If so and still not working take it off put stock back on and ship it back and tell them you want a NEW ONE!

The Edelbrock QS will make life easier not harder and it works well which it sounds like yours isn't.


JT

  • J_T

Posted October 11, 2005 - 01:58 PM

#38

You do have a XR650R and not XR650L???

  • BRP27

Posted October 12, 2005 - 04:40 PM

#39

I got an Edelbrock about 4 months ago ( New) and it had always been set to rich. Plug was black. I adjusted the mid to low range using the knob on the top of the carb. Wasn't running bad but I knew it was not set right.

Finally I decided to go to a leaner needle. The carb was advertised to be set for the XR650R. The instructions said how to change the needle but to refer to the XR650R spec sheet for specific specs. The spec said I should have a 17 E needle and 12 clicks. What I found installed was the 19 E needle and that was the problem. I set the 17 E at 16 clicks( wanted it to be a little on the rich side). Runs much better, better throttle snap. I thought it was good before, except for the black plug. Now it is WOW!
I run at:
73 degrees F to 95 F
Sea level

4Takt could your needle be the wrong one ? 17 E, 19 E, 21 E is what comes with the carb. 17 is the leanest, 21 richest
_________________

02 XR650R

  • malevolent73

Posted October 14, 2005 - 08:32 PM

#40

Now thats funny... mine came with the 19 in it, but the specs said it was setup w/ the 17E in the carb I put the 21 in now and have no problems... the only problem I see is that they are not too consistant with their setup practices :lol: It tells you one way, but setup another :banghead: ... other than that little fopah, I LOVE the carb :banghead:





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