How Loud is Loud?
Posted March 20, 2001 - 02:51 PM
I don't get it.
If a tree falls in the woods…
Posted March 20, 2001 - 03:01 PM
When in doubt, GAS IT!
Posted March 20, 2001 - 04:15 PM
In the forest, desert, etc our 103dB bikes are a hell of a lot louder than ambient AND the noise can carry much, much farther.
Posted March 20, 2001 - 05:08 PM
Ron, The DSP on your WR sounds great!!! I dont think is too loud, but other people might! Dan
Posted March 21, 2001 - 12:03 AM
Posted March 21, 2001 - 10:47 PM
I'm not saying that your 104dB WR is worse than your obnoxious neighbors Harley - but the fact of the matter is that the joe treehuggers perception of your WR is much worse.
The fact that you pay good money to ride on 'private' property doesn't mean you can run uncorked. I'm willing to bet that the noise from your bike carries a lot farther than you can see pick out a person. Soundwaves don't understand property lines.... If there was no one around to hear your 104dB WR then by all means go for it. But the fact is you cannot control whether or not there is a receiver (people) that will hear you bike.
I like the sound of a well tuned engine as much as the next person but there is a definite limit to how much noise people will tolerate. I went to the Winternationals at Pomona one year and the ringing in my ears didn't stop for 2 days - that was with ear plugs.
I honestly don't know how you ride your bike if it truly is at 104dB - don't you get tired of the noise?
What part of TO do you live in? I grew up in Westlake - corner of Hidden Valley Road & Decker Cyn.
Posted March 21, 2001 - 11:06 AM
I went to Westlake High! I live near the Oaks mall in TO off of Lynn road!! What a small world. Good to talk to you!! Dan
Posted March 21, 2001 - 12:25 PM
P.S.As it is I ride with ear-plugs or I go deaf.
Posted March 21, 2001 - 12:43 PM
Say both Johny Treehugger and myself wish to go recreate in the mountains and we end up within one mile of each other. We are both there to escape the city. Then I start my motorcycle. It's not going to matter to Johny if my motorcycle is 98db or 104db, he's not going to like it just like I don't like a police helicopter above my house at 2:00am. He has a choice - get back in the suv and drive a few miles or wait a few minutes until I'm out of his hearing range.
Who's to say Johny has the right to stop me from riding my motorcycle because he does not like the sound of my motorcycle? It's like me saying Johny can't go to the mountains because I don't like the smell of the pot he's smoking.
Personally, I think this noise issue is blown way out of proportion. Just more PC nonsense. I don't ride in areas where it's going to bother people. That would be rude. It's way beyond rude for Johny Treehugger to try to stop me from recreating, just as he is, because he does not like what I do. Is he more important than I? He thinks so. That is the issue, not noise.
If you don't like the sound of a sweet running four stroke, then stay away from OHV areas. Okay, rant over. Whew, I feel better.
Hey Dan, how was the ride Sunday?
Posted March 21, 2001 - 12:51 PM
How's it going? I have to agree with you about the greens. After reading the "From Off-road to Ruin" article at www.calwild.org, I've also come to the conclusion that the greens will not stop until we are eliminated from the planet. They have taken pictures of every tire track and eroded hill in the last few remaining "open riding areas", and present it as if it were both widespread and the absolute end of the world. Since they literally worship the earth, they will not tolerate the slightest "damage" to it, no matter where it occurs. Noise is their #1 complaint, but they'll just focus on everything else they don't like if we allow them to continue (erosion, speed, pollution, dust, lawlessness, etc, etc, etc). I had to laugh at the picture of a trials section, which is arguably the least invasive type of off-road activity that exists, in terms of "damage", acres involved, and noise. They will never be satisfied with compromise, we must fight them tooth and nail! Most riders I know want to be respectful and just get along, so we can start by addressing excessive noise. The Bass Lake and Sequioa dual-sport events repeatedly ran us through general use campgrounds, and I KNOW we didn't make any friends up there. Campers were putting up makeshift signs like "SLOW DOWN", "NO DUST", and just giving us all dirty looks as 100's of us roared by for two days. The sad part is that it's all unnecessary! We can have all the power we deserve, light weight, and a quiet exhaust IF the manufacturers made this a priority. California has just lowered the standard to 96 dB, and they've budgeted for lots of new enforcement (dB meters and BLM agents). Maybe this will actually be a good thing for our sport?
Posted March 21, 2001 - 01:27 PM
If all those bikes had been as quiet as my '88 Katana 1100 then the campers wouldn't even know you where there. Let's see - 1127 cc, ~ 90 hp that was as loud as sewing machine vs 399cc, ~45hp that cause dogs to run for cover.
I read the entire CalWild report - they do make some valid points. However, their methods for resolving some legitimate issues are absolutely intolerable. Look, people riding in closed area SHOULD be cited. I may not agree with why the area is closed but the fact is it's now closed.
One of the things CalWild & others want are 'buffer' zones between wildnerness areas & OHV areas. I experienced this first hand in San Luis Obispo with the Garcia Ridge trail. It is/was the border of a wilderness area. Quieter bikes will have a direct impact on reducing these kinds of demands. Think about it - they don't want to see or hear us. I don't know about you but I can't see other bikes thru trees/mtns/brush or around corners. BUT I CAN DAMN WELL HEAR THEM. If Johnny Treehugger can't hear or see me in the distance what's he gonna complain about? Physical damage - ie erosion. Fine let him. I can refute physical damage with cold hard facts or manage erosion by rotating trail closures/maintenance which will require more trails to be built in order to keep a set number of miles open at all times. I CANNOT REFUTE PERCEPTION NOR CAN I REFUTE THE COLD HARD FACTS OF A SOUND METER 2 MILES INSIDE A WILDNERNESS AREA.
Pull your heads out of your self absorbed asses and use a quiet exhaust system. I highly doubt that the 2hp gain makes you faster any place other than a drag strip.
Look at what has happened around airports. Airports were originally built in the middle of nowhere because of the noise. Now they've got houses all around them and the home owners are complaining and getting the restrictions on noise that they want - just look at Long Beach & John Wayne Airports.
[This message has been edited by Brian Meadows (edited 03-21-2001).]
Posted March 21, 2001 - 02:30 PM
I personally feel that a loud exhaust system is obnoxious. I put a quiet core insert in my E series pipe because it was detracting from my own riding experience. This issue is real. If it bothers me, and I RIDE, think how it affects others. If you don't care that's your business. But that kind of attitude will only hurt our cause, and we're already in a WORLD OF HURT.
Posted March 21, 2001 - 03:20 PM
I'm not advocating loud pipes. The point I'm trying to make is I don't think it's about noise or air pollution or soil erosion or anything else they use against us. They don't like what we do PERIOD! Nothing is going to change that.
If it were about noise then the HD guys would have to conform to the same db levels we do. The next thing you know we will all be riding one of these and it still will not be good enough:
That is, if we have enough electricity to charge the batteries.
Posted March 21, 2001 - 04:00 PM
The hardcore enviromentalists do not like dirt bikes period - I agree. But why give the hardcore enviro's more ammo to use against us when lobbying John Q. Public for votes. John Publics main bitch about dirtbikes is the noise - most people are rational enough to accept a managed solution on the erosion type stuff - if they don't see it or hear it they don't care about it. It's the 'not in my backyard' syndrome.
Do a search on Mammoth Bar in the archives and read up on the problems guys have had.
Personaly, I don't subscribe to 'loud pipes save lives'. I wish the cops would ticket the damn things....
Posted March 21, 2001 - 04:04 PM
Now you guys finally wake up and start running around in little circles wasting energy. Go to the real problem, your local politicians. Get rid of the Socialist in office. And then work your way up.
Posted March 21, 2001 - 07:48 PM
When finished riding, while loading his stuff he starts playing some headbanger crap at 3/4 volume.
I close my truck door and move to the other side which compels him to go for the other 1/4 of volume.
Hey, to each his own but what gives?
Posted March 21, 2001 - 08:32 PM
A bureaucracy's natural progression is to grow larger and larger and to create more and more rules... more and more departments.. more and more paperwork to be filled out.
And any big business who sees an oppurtunity for greater profits by influencing the Gov. to create rules for their benefit does so through large political contributions to politicians during their election drives.
We've got to have that campaign finance reform to head government back towards the "government for the people by the people" ideal it was once supposed to be based upon.
As of now it's government for the special interest lobbies.
And the politically correct lobbies.
Like the Sierra Club.
Oh... and by the way... Quiet your bike down !... mine is !!
As I have said here before... If everybody has a quiet exhaust on... then they are all back to square one with the same regard to HP.
Does it really make any difference if we all have 43 HP instead of 46HP ???
I like to ride in a manner so that people nearby don't even know I am there.
That is success ...to me.
And I am having no less fun.
Posted March 21, 2001 - 10:44 PM
Posted March 22, 2001 - 04:42 AM
me inn bringing the two groups together and put everyones concerns on the table. The meeting won't take place for a few months, but it will happen. I was at a legislative hearing Tueasday about bill 717 in NH. Both groups had a chance to speak individually. There was a lot of tension in the group. One thing that both groups had in common was a concern for the environment. If two groups have at least one thing in common there is a cahnce for solutions down the road. This was my first legislative hearing and it was quite boaring but many good points were made. Another big concern are riders going out of their way to get on posted property. It doesnt help the cause. I run a stock exhaust with a different plug. 3/4 diameter insert. Not loud and very little performane enhancement. I will be putting my stock plug back in and that is how it will be. We have enough people on this site and visiting this site to start our own coalition. We need to start a group that is going to be willing to take a chance.
At some point in time these two opposing groups are going to have to work together. We as groups will have to let the past be the past and come up with solutions for the future. This will have to be done together, like it or not. This doen not mean the groups have to like each other, but better communication needs to be made. I am going to give it a shot alone if I have too.
This is a great topic Ron.
Sorry for being long winded