chain cleaning help


64 replies to this topic
  • flintlock28

Posted August 22, 2005 - 04:51 PM

#21

I agree with Grayracer and Jetsprint2..the stock chain just doesn't cut the mustard. I bought my Yz 450f (2004) used with about 45 or 50 hours (trail ridden only) on the kid's family 40 acres. The kid told me he had already removed a link, and it was getting close to having another removed. I decided to be cheap, and kept it on there with very diligent maintenance: clean, apply wd-40 when still wet, and then when dried, I used Maxima Chain Wax. It seemed like every other week of riding, I was adjusting that damn chain, and also it was developing a lot of side play, and was beginning to make slapping sounds. At first I thought it was valvetrain noise, and than realized what it was. Get rid of it before it ruins the decent quality Sunstar sprockets that came with the bike. I just went the proper method, and replaced the sprockets with Ironman brand, and used a very nice Regina "O" ring chain. If you get a new chain quickly, you won't need to replace the sprocket's and save yourself some money.....Don

  • BLUEDUDE

Posted August 22, 2005 - 05:33 PM

#22

In your guys opinion, what would be the best chain for the buck?

  • Jetsprint2

Posted August 22, 2005 - 05:51 PM

#23

In your guys opinion, what would be the best chain for the buck?

I like the D.I.D. 520 ERT, got mine for $47.99. Not an O-Ring but easy to maintain. Looks cool to because it is all gold pretty trick. Very strong chain, remember to get a 120 linker I think I took 6 links off of mine to 114 with stock gearing. Do not take my word for it make sure about the links. I don't want to lead you down the wrong path just a friendly reminder. :D

  • DigilubeJay

Posted August 22, 2005 - 06:30 PM

#24

Absolutely, and no lubricant in this universe will prevent it from stretching under 450 power.
Are we going to have a pissing lubrication match again, round 2? :D

You neeed to have a little bit of knowledge on a subject before you make bold statements. Knowlegable folks have debates and discussions...those who are guessing have pissing matches.
450 power is not a concern at all. It cannot make enough power to yield a #520 chain sideplate.

Yes, a lower grade chain has not been proof stetched at the factory during build and there will be a slight bit of initial stetch, due to the elasticity of the sideplates. But once the initial plate stretch period has passed (first ride), there should be very slight, if any at all, elongation from further stretch.
The rest of the elongation will be as a result of pin/bushing/roller wear.

greyracer,
Sure I'm biased. But that does not change the facts that I have stated. It's not me making up theorum and spouting it off...it's textbook tribology that I am reffering to.
Chain lube mfg's have missed the boat...plain and simple. We are providing a product that suits the application better than any petroleum lube on the market. Bar none.
But we aren't the ony ones providing a better product...I'd put up our competitors Shaeffers, Amsoil, Honda, or Farmer Johns MolyMix against any petroleum or wax moto lube on the market. Lubricity, longevity, washout, shock load, any condition petroleum will fail. Also any test you want...Pin and Vee, Four Ball, name it...we've probably ran it. And will be glad to accept challanges.

Also, in ref. to the brittle pin...again I state that if the lubrication is being upheld in that area, the metal is of little factor. Only when the lubrication is violated does the makeup of the metal start to really matter.
Folks have their lubrication violated on a regular basis, be it from lax maint. schedule or substandard lube. When this happens, having a high dollar chain with quality metals makes a big difference, because it can withstand the lube being violated far better than a subgrade chain can.
And yes, I agree that the chains Yamaha uses suck. However, they will last far longer than they do for most folks, IF you are lubing it properly.

BTW...I have a hard time buying anyone breaking a chain at the pin, WITHOUT having an underlying adjustment problem to begin with.

  • DigilubeJay

Posted August 22, 2005 - 06:34 PM

#25

I agree with Grayracer and Jetsprint2..the stock chain just doesn't cut the mustard. I bought my Yz 450f (2004) used with about 45 or 50 hours (trail ridden only) on the kid's family 40 acres. The kid told me he had already removed a link, and it was getting close to having another removed. I decided to be cheap, and kept it on there with very diligent maintenance: clean, apply wd-40 when still wet, and then when dried, I used Maxima Chain Wax. It seemed like every other week of riding, I was adjusting that damn chain, and also it was developing a lot of side play, and was beginning to make slapping sounds. At first I thought it was valvetrain noise, and than realized what it was. Get rid of it before it ruins the decent quality Sunstar sprockets that came with the bike. I just went the proper method, and replaced the sprockets with Ironman brand, and used a very nice Regina "O" ring chain. If you get a new chain quickly, you won't need to replace the sprocket's and save yourself some money.....Don

Don,
If the guy had taken a link out...the chain was trashed when you got the bike. The sprocket was also trashed...unless he put a new sprocket on just before selling you the bike.
Allowing your chain to get that long while having an Ironman rear is a very dangerous situation.

  • grayracer513

Posted August 22, 2005 - 08:35 PM

#26

And will be glad to accept challanges.

Then here's your challenge: Make a brand new stock '04 YZ450F OEM chain last through 100 hours of mixed competitive vet MX, Hard trail, and fast Desert riding on a YZ450F without exceeding 2% overlength, or having a complete failure, any way you can.

My Reginas go about 175, and are still under that limit.

Tell you what... Make it 50 hours.

  • SureBlue

Posted August 22, 2005 - 10:34 PM

#27

You neeed to have a little bit of knowledge on a subject before you make bold statements. Knowlegable folks have debates and discussions...those who are guessing have pissing matches.
450 power is not a concern at all. It cannot make enough power to yield a #520 chain sideplate.

Thank you Sir for indirectly saying I know nothing.
Well, my knowledge of different chains is only 36 years since I started with my first enduro bike. Never have I had to see a chain stretch like the DID Yamaha stock chain. I can say I maintain my bikes well, but also say I am no lubricant expert. But the chains have always been cleaned and properly lubed, even between motos. I can't really see how your excellent lubricant prevents the Yam chain from stretching. I have had several big thumpers of different brands, but my Yams and everybody else's ones I know have had horrible chains. I followed your earlier debate with grayracer and found already out your (biased?)knowledge on this subject, but you really do not know this chain we are talking about. No grease or chemicals can do wonders on it.
My stock chain was toasted after some 7 hours of riding, compare it with a new Renthal O-ring chain:
Posted Image
I would not like to have it ruin my case when it snaps. PM me your address and I send it to you so you can lube it and continue riding with it. It may indeed have several hours still on it, but I would not risk it.
Have a nice day Sir.

  • biznet1

Posted August 23, 2005 - 03:01 AM

#28

Farmer Johns MolyMix against any petroleum or wax moto lube on the market.

You are about one arrogant SOB. Let me tell you something Jr. I don't mind a redneck joke here and there because I live in Alabama, but I didn't jump on you and make kamikaze statements. I was asking for input, particularly from you, about this off brand lube I've been using. FYI, I don't live anywhere near a farm and I've probably been to more countries, than you've been to states. So leave your smart ass comments to yourself. BTW, I don't know what K-Y lube you are spouting off about here, but I'll damn sure never buy it. I don't care how good it is.

You neeed to have a little bit of knowledge on a subject before you make bold statements. Knowlegable folks have debates and discussions...those who are guessing have pissing matches.
450 power is not a concern at all. It cannot make enough power to yield a #520 chain sideplate.


And another thing. I don't give a sheite how much you think you know. Stock chains don't last even with the f@#$#$ing ferry dust you put on yours.

  • grayracer513

Posted August 23, 2005 - 07:48 AM

#29

Thank you Sir for indirectly saying I know nothing.

Don't you love the way he does that? You will also soon find out that your 36 years of actual, hands-on, practical experience working with chains in the specific application you're discussing don't matter any more than my 40+ (33 as a professional) did. He has a text book that says you're wrong.

You are about one arrogant SOB.

Why, Biz, whatever do you mean?!? :D

  • DaveJ

Posted August 23, 2005 - 09:08 AM

#30

It would seem to me that the only way to resolve this "debate" would be to validate how a chain will or will not stretch based on the quality and frequency of lubrication.

Perhaps someone could provide some evidence of this.

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  • flintlock28

Posted August 23, 2005 - 10:17 AM

#31

Jay,

I didn't put the Ironman sprockets on with the old chain.....I put the Ironmans' on with the new Regina "o" ring chain I purchased as a set.

When I first got the bike, the sprockets (stock Sunstar's) didn't look hardly worn at all, even though the kid previously had removed a link. As i first rode the bike, the chain didn't stretch too bad, but as I did more 3 -5 hour weekend woods, fields, along train track riding at higher speeds, the chain really began to stretch, and began slapping, even though it was properly adjusted (on the stand free hanging, at about 1.7 inches from the swingarm bolt) I meticulously washed, dried, applied wd-40, and then when relatively dry applied Maxima chain wax, But after awhile it became apparent to just ditch the chain and sprockets as a whole, thus the Ironman/Regina combo.

I truly respect your Obvious knowledge base, but I have to agree with others that the stock chain maintained even with the most meticulous care, is definately going to stretch beyond the shop manual recommended limit within a few months of semi-hard riding. Maybe if someone is just doing very tight trails that the throttle isn't hit on very often, it might be likely to not stretch beyond the recommended limit.

Don





QUOTE=DigilubeJay]Don,
If the guy had taken a link out...the chain was trashed when you got the bike. The sprocket was also trashed...unless he put a new sprocket on just before selling you the bike.
Allowing your chain to get that long while having an Ironman rear is a very dangerous situation.[/QUOTE]

  • Jetsprint2

Posted August 23, 2005 - 10:37 AM

#32

You are about one arrogant SOB. Let me tell you something Jr. I don't mind a redneck joke here and there because I live in Alabama, but I didn't jump on you and make kamikaze statements. I was asking for input, particularly from you, about this off brand lube I've been using. FYI, I don't live anywhere near a farm and I've probably been to more countries, than you've been to states. So leave your smart ass comments to yourself. BTW, I don't know what K-Y lube you are spouting off about here, but I'll damn sure never buy it. I don't care how good it is.



And another thing. I don't give a sheite how much you think you know. Stock chains don't last even with the f@#$#$ing ferry dust you put on yours.


Wow, I thought I was the only one who got involved in these pissing matches. I don't feel so bad now.

  • biznet1

Posted August 23, 2005 - 10:55 AM

#33

Wow, I thought I was the only one who got involved in these pissing matches. I don't feel so bad now.

I don't like to get into pissing contests with anyone on here, but the "farmer's moly mix" comment was about my earlier post, and I didn't do anything to deserve it. I guess he expects us to buy his "secret formula" friggin mystery lube because he's so vastly intellectually superior than the rest of us, proving it all by those big mis-spelled words he feebly uses in his posts. I'll squirt "farm animal" piss on my chain before I'll use digilube.

  • SureBlue

Posted August 23, 2005 - 11:41 AM

#34

Don't you love the way he does that? You will also soon find out that your 36 years of actual, hands-on, practical experience working with chains in the specific application you're discussing don't matter any more than my 40+ (33 as a professional) did. He has a text book that says you're wrong.

He may indeed have a good product he produces/sells, but as a marketing person I would perhaps try another approach to promote my product if I was him. Doing it this way in a forum of 50.000 members...well... but hey, we all are individuals and free to choose our methods. But we also are free to choose what we buy.

  • Jetsprint2

Posted August 23, 2005 - 11:47 AM

#35

I don't like to get into pissing contests with anyone on here, but the "farmer's moly mix" comment was about my earlier post, and I didn't do anything to deserve it. I guess he expects us to buy his "secret formula" friggin mystery lube because he's so vastly intellectually superior than the rest of us, proving it all by those big mis-spelled words he feebly uses in his posts. I'll squirt "farm animal" piss on my chain before I'll use digilube.

Yah, I don't like getting into pissing contests either and I think he was out of line as well. It is crazy what some of these guys will post from time to time.

  • grayracer513

Posted August 23, 2005 - 04:39 PM

#36

Jay,

I didn't put the Ironman sprockets on with the old chain.....I put the Ironmans' on with the new Regina "o" ring chain I purchased as a set.

That was pretty obvious to me, Don, but I read your post without having a reflexive urge to belittle you.

It would seem to me that the only way to resolve this "debate" would be to validate how a chain will or will not stretch based on the quality and frequency of lubrication.

Perhaps someone could provide some evidence of this.

I don't know if it will have any effect on the "debate", but chain "stretch" takes two forms. One is that the side plates actually elastically stretch to a longer than manufactured dimension. This only happens with low quality chains in which the steel used to stamp the side plates is too soft and/or is not pre-stretched before the plates are cut from it. Steel that can be stretched generally yields the first one percent more easily than the second or third, much like the plastic rings from a six pack, so higher quality chains are made from steel which has been pre-stretched to some extent to prevent it from happening in service. This type of stretch cannot be prevented by any kind of lubricant.

The second kind can, though, and it is the much more common cause of what we like to call "stretch". Chains will become longer because the pins and bushings become worn. If each pin in 114 pin chain wears .001", the chain is going to be .114", nearly 1/8", longer than it's supposed to be, even if the bushings don't wear at all. Wear in the pins/bushings is also why a worn chain is able to bend laterally like the picture SureBlue posted.

  • DigilubeJay

Posted August 23, 2005 - 08:03 PM

#37

You are about one arrogant SOB. Let me tell you something Jr. I don't mind a redneck joke here and there because I live in Alabama, but I didn't jump on you and make kamikaze statements. I was asking for input, particularly from you, about this off brand lube I've been using. FYI, I don't live anywhere near a farm and I've probably been to more countries, than you've been to states. So leave your smart ass comments to yourself. BTW, I don't know what K-Y lube you are spouting off about here, but I'll damn sure never buy it. I don't care how good it is.



And another thing. I don't give a sheite how much you think you know. Stock chains don't last even with the f@#$#$ing ferry dust you put on yours.

What in the sam hell are you talking about?
I suggest you stow some of your smart stuff, pal.
I wasn't reffering to anything you had said. I keep re-reading and can't figure out for the life of me what in the world is wrong with you.
Why don't you take a moment and explain exactly what has you so riled up...or else APPOLOGIZE. Was it the moly comment? What in the world could you thought that had to do with you? Do you talk to people in person like that?

greyracer, I'm tired of arguing with you. You have a lot to learn in your old age, but you apparently think not.
You can discredit me all you want. As you often do when anyone goes against your thinking.
And your 33 years are as a proffesional what? Auto mechanic?
My proffession actually deals with issues like these. Does yours?

Man some of you guys are acting like children.
I am not touting my product. Only the technology behind it.
You don't want help? Fine.
Think you already know it all? Fine.

  • biznet1

Posted August 24, 2005 - 01:36 AM

#38

What in the sam hell are you talking about?
I suggest you stow some of your smart stuff, pal.
I wasn't reffering to anything you had said. I keep re-reading and can't figure out for the life of me what in the world is wrong with you.
Why don't you take a moment and explain exactly what has you so riled up...or else APPOLOGIZE. Was it the moly comment? What in the world could you thought that had to do with you? Do you talk to people in person like that?

greyracer, I'm tired of arguing with you. You have a lot to learn in your old age, but you apparently think not.
You can discredit me all you want. As you often do when anyone goes against your thinking.
And your 33 years are as a proffesional what? Auto mechanic?
My proffession actually deals with issues like these. Does yours?

Man some of you guys are acting like children.
I am not touting my product. Only the technology behind it.
You don't want help? Fine.
Think you already know it all? Fine.

I think I made it pretty clear. You know exactly what I am talking about. Nobody else had a problem figuring it out! I'm the only one that mentioned anything about Moly lube and I live in Alabama? Come on, at least own up to your own comment. "Farmer's moly mix"? The fact that you're too chicken sh!t to admit it pisses me off even more. Me apologize? When monkeys fly out my @ss. The last time you started this crap I was the only one that tried to smooth it over for you and you still make stereotypical comments.

  • Ga426owner

Posted August 24, 2005 - 04:56 AM

#39

Guys it just a friggin chain.......stock are junk and yes they all stretch over time..........some of you need to relube! :D

  • biznet1

Posted August 24, 2005 - 05:04 AM

#40

Ga.

This isn't about the chain stuff at all. It was his condescending statement about farmer's moly mix. I'm over it now, just tired of the stereotyping.





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